Whos overall more powerful? Thor or Surfer?

Originally posted by h1a8
It's only a reality in some cases because the writer knows that Character A will dominate Character B easily and refuses to allow this to happen for the sake of the story. But in other cases the writer makes known of what Character A can really do if he/she wanted.

Comics ARE built off of science and logic (or at least it tries to be at times), otherwise the suspension of disbelief fails. It's just that the science isn't always correct or discovered yet (like magic). Everyone knows how strong a character is based off the things they have lift, pulled, hit, etc... Even when using comparisons to other characters the root is still which natural feats were done at the root. Why do you think Superman is slightly stronger or equal to Thor when they have never fought or engaged in strength? Is it because of the natural lifting, pulling,... feats they have that compare? Isn't that based off science or logic?

Is it reasonable for a character to view bullets as frozen in time yet gets hits, while alert, to an attack moving at a small fraction of a bullets speed? Is it because of the character's ability that he got hit or is it because the writer chose to ignore their ability to falsely create adversity? The writer knows the truth and yet chooses what is best for the comic company, even if that means to go against logic at time.

This is the spirit of why we have the rule "Character's fight at their best ability [B]AS SHOWN BEFORE".
There is no writer to purposely ignore a character's natural ability just because it suits the story.

IMO, it is speed that prevents Thor from being Trans level or even Skyfather level. Without speed and him using his powers at their utmost he is still only a herald level being. [/B]

Right cause it is based on feat and logic that a man can change his clothes at the super sonic or even light speeds and the clothes not shred. Or for a man to travel and fight at supersonic or light speeds and not cause a backlash from breaking the speed of sound.

Just... No. There is nothing logical about comics.

Superman actually did that once.

To make my point clear, I have not ignored Surfers perceptions or speed.
I am simply playing "Devil's Advocate" here.
What I was addressing was the complete lack of Surfer using his speed in a physical manner during combat. His travel speed and perceptions are well known. But, in a h2h battle situation, Surfer has not taken advantage of this ability, for whatever reason.
Then, I simply went on to state that Thor has been written to show speed feats and high level perceptions of speed feats in the past. Over and over.
Personally, I always thought that this was being done as Marvel's direct attempt to have Thor "keep up" with his DC counterpart, you-know-who.
But, whatever the reason, it is a simple thing to find examples of what I am saying.
Trust me, I am actually a big Surfer fan and I have LITERALLY read, as far as I can tell, EVERY comic that has ever included him. And, I can't count how many times my jaw has dropped while I read about Surfer being beaten by somebody who had NO BUSINESS beating him. And, the one thing that always came to mind, was that he was always written as a noble, peaceful, almost child-like character with vast power. An innocent.
But, Thor has always been written as a warrior first, anything else came last.
If you want to waste a week of your life (as I probably havefacepalm2), you can search and find that many of the greatest feats one of these characters has, the other has also, or feats on similar levels. Everything from energy manipulation, matter manipulation, speed, destruction on gigantic scales, soaking up punishment, working with time, etc.

The Eternal Comparison.

Durability: Surfer
Energy output (minus God Blast): Leaning toward Thor
Strength: Thor
Speed: Surfer
Versatility: Surfer
Combat effectiveness: Leaning toward Thor, though I'm not quite sure what this means.

Originally posted by rotiart
Right cause it is based on feat and logic that a man can change his clothes at the super sonic or even light speeds and the clothes not shred. Or for a man to travel and fight at supersonic or light speeds and not cause a backlash from breaking the speed of sound.

Just... No. There is nothing logical about comics.

logic and science are two different things. Reread my post. I claimed that the science is sometimes faulty. But the logic exists otherwise the suspension of disbelief will fail.

Originally posted by Horrificus
To make my point clear, I have not ignored Surfers perceptions or speed.
I am simply playing "Devil's Advocate" here.
What I was addressing was the complete lack of Surfer using his speed in a physical manner during combat. His travel speed and perceptions are well known. But, in a h2h battle situation, Surfer has not taken advantage of this ability, for whatever reason.
Then, I simply went on to state that Thor has been written to show speed feats and high level perceptions of speed feats in the past. Over and over.
Personally, I always thought that this was being done as Marvel's direct attempt to have Thor "keep up" with his DC counterpart, you-know-who.
But, whatever the reason, it is a simple thing to find examples of what I am saying.
Trust me, I am actually a big Surfer fan and I have LITERALLY read, as far as I can tell, EVERY comic that has ever included him. And, I can't count how many times my jaw has dropped while I read about Surfer being beaten by somebody who had NO BUSINESS beating him. And, the one thing that always came to mind, was that he was always written as a noble, peaceful, almost child-like character with vast power. An innocent.
But, Thor has always been written as a warrior first, anything else came last.
If you want to waste a week of your life (as I probably havefacepalm2), you can search and find that many of the greatest feats one of these characters has, the other has also, or feats on similar levels. Everything from energy manipulation, matter manipulation, speed, destruction on gigantic scales, soaking up punishment, working with time, etc.

good post. To be honest, I don't even know what it means to be more powerful.
Does it mean to apply more damage (like to a super durable material or character), to be more unbeatable, or something else?

Originally posted by h1a8
To be honest, I don't even know what it means to be more powerful.

1. Who can deliver the biggest blast.
2. Who can take the biggest blast.

Originally posted by h1a8
logic and science are two different things. Reread my post. I claimed that the science is sometimes faulty. But the logic exists otherwise the suspension of disbelief will fail.

Definition of logic:
- noun 1._science or method of reasoning

Hence failed science leads to failed logic.
Definition of science:
- noun 1._systematic knowledge, esp. of the physical world, gained through observation and experimentation

Again. I assert that comics are not logical. And btw since you assert comics have failed science applied at times, you can never again assert that superman has billions of tons of strength based upon some feats...

Wanna know why?
The science is faulty.

Ie. you hate superman

Originally posted by mysterio777
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Nothing facepalm worthy about it.

If Surfer using every iota of power at his disposal to the maximum degree makes him a Trans/Skyfather level being, the same applies to Thor. And Superman, too, to boot. Especially considering Thor tapping into Warrior's Madness qualifies as a power/ability of his, and WM Thor is definitely trans. That's just reality. Obviously, none of those guys are on that level conventionally, but in terms of feats, if we want to go that route, they certainly have them of that caliber.

Originally posted by mysterio777
even thought he got much more feats of actually getting blitzed by king hyperion, gladiator,spider-man,wolverine atc atc 🙄

jake you are a good poster but when it comes down to thor you are just as much biased and double standarded as quan with thanos , Lol at saying thor is trans/skyfather and Lol at WM Thor being a mid trans GTFO

Yeah, Hyperion attempted a blitz...and then got owned. Gladiator used his speed to great effect...exploiting more than handful of circumstances in his favor and still lost to Thor. Spider-Man used his speed to get an advantage over Thor....Eric Masterson version, that is. Wolverine was too fast for Thor...until Thor actually grabbed him by his ankle and beat him while still holding back.

Your point: not seeing it. Thor doesn't need explicit superspeed movement in order to compete with beings with superspeed to say nothing of beating them. Thor has the reaction and reflexes to tag them, omnidirectional blasts, and a weapon which, when thrown, can home in on a target at speeds far faster than light. Speed, at best, is a general edge someone can have over Thor, but it's not a game changer. Never has been.

Yah, I'm a pretty good poster. 👆 And lol at comparing me and Thor to Quan and Thanos. Good times. I already elaborated on that Trans/Skyfather comment above. And yeah, WM Thor is definitely trans. Considering Thor already has strength able to rival Superman and Thor, multiplying that strength by ten safely pushes him out of the High Herald range.

Durability: Surfer marginally
Energy output (minus God Blast): Surfer
Strength: Thor
Speed: Surfer BY FAR
Versatility: Surfer BY FAR
Combat effectiveness: Overall effectiveness - it comes down to Surfer's transmutation vs Thor's BFR - both are basically "I-Win" buttons. But due to the speed difference, one of them can pull it off faster, or try other options if Option A doesn't work. So I'll have to go with Surfer for this as well.

So overall, Silver Surfer is still more powerful. Now in a fight, most of the above points are moot because of the MASSIVE speed difference.

Originally posted by rotiart
Definition of logic:
- noun 1._science or method of reasoning

Hence failed science leads to failed logic.
Definition of science:
- noun 1._systematic knowledge, esp. of the physical world, gained through observation and experimentation

Again. I assert that comics are not logical. And btw since you assert comics have failed science applied at times, you can never again assert that superman has billions of tons of strength based upon some feats...

Wanna know why?
The science is faulty.

Ie. you hate superman

Wow! I didn't know you were that slow. By science I mean Physics. If comics are not logical then explain why the suspension of disbelief exists.

Just because some science in comics in faulty doesn't mean we can disregard all science in comics. After all, force is force. How would you know if Thor is stronger than Aquaman without science?

Does surfer have an attack as powerfull as a God blast?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Nothing facepalm worthy about it.

If Surfer using every iota of power at his disposal to the maximum degree makes him a Trans/Skyfather level being, the same applies to Thor. And Superman, too, to boot. Especially considering Thor tapping into Warrior's Madness qualifies as a power/ability of his, and WM Thor is definitely trans. That's just reality. Obviously, none of those guys are on that level conventionally, but in terms of feats, if we want to go that route, they certainly have them of that caliber.

Yeah, Hyperion attempted a blitz...and then got owned. Gladiator used his speed to great effect...exploiting more than handful of circumstances in his favor and still lost to Thor. Spider-Man used his speed to get an advantage over Thor....Eric Masterson version, that is. Wolverine was too fast for Thor...until Thor actually grabbed him by his ankle and beat him while still holding back.

Your point: not seeing it. Thor doesn't need explicit superspeed movement in order to compete with beings with superspeed to say nothing of beating them. Thor has the reaction and reflexes to tag them, omnidirectional blasts, and a weapon which, when thrown, can home in on a target at speeds far faster than light. Speed, at best, is a general edge someone can have over Thor, but it's not a game changer. Never has been.

Yah, I'm a pretty good poster. 👆 And lol at comparing me and Thor to Quan and Thanos. Good times. I already elaborated on that Trans/Skyfather comment above. And yeah, WM Thor is definitely trans. Considering Thor already has strength able to rival Superman and Thor, multiplying that strength by ten safely pushes him out of the High Herald range.

I disagree that WM Thor is trans. It takes more than strength to enter trans. IMO, a calm normal Thor fighting at his best would beat a WM Thor every time since WM Thor would fight less effective. Also, 10x Thor's strength is still herald level strength. For example, Superman is more than 10x Thor's strength when you consider top feats. Even WBH is not trans level and his strength surpasses 10x Thor's strength.

Just because Thor competes with beings with super speed doesn't mean he can when those beings actually use their top super speed on Thor. I can compete with flash is flash doesn't operate at his top speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree that WM Thor is trans. It takes more than strength to enter trans. IMO, a calm normal Thor fighting at his best would beat a WM Thor every time since WM Thor would fight less effective. Also, 10x Thor's strength is still herald level strength. For example, Superman is more than 10x Thor's strength when you consider top feats. Even WBH is not trans level and his strength surpasses 10x Thor's strength.

Just because Thor competes with beings with super speed doesn't mean he can when those beings actually use their top super speed on Thor. I can compete with flash is flash doesn't operate at his top speed.

Who's stronger...Doomsday or Hulk. Remember, we are going by fts.

Originally posted by carver9
Who's stronger...Doomsday or Hulk. Remember, we are going by fts.

Hulk is variable and can not be argued unless you state a specific Hulk at a specific time.

Originally posted by h1a8
Hulk is variable and can not be argued unless you state a specific Hulk at a specific time.

I'm referring to WWH who is stronger than any other incarnation of the Hulk minus World Breaker.

Originally posted by Horrificus
To make my point clear, I have not ignored Surfers perceptions or speed.
I am simply playing "Devil's Advocate" here.
What I was addressing was the complete lack of Surfer using his speed in a physical manner during combat. His travel speed and perceptions are well known. But, in a h2h battle situation, Surfer has not taken advantage of this ability, for whatever reason.
Then, I simply went on to state that Thor has been written to show speed feats and high level perceptions of speed feats in the past. Over and over.
Personally, I always thought that this was being done as Marvel's direct attempt to have Thor "keep up" with his DC counterpart, you-know-who.
But, whatever the reason, it is a simple thing to find examples of what I am saying.
Trust me, I am actually a big Surfer fan and I have LITERALLY read, as far as I can tell, EVERY comic that has ever included him. And, I can't count how many times my jaw has dropped while I read about Surfer being beaten by somebody who had NO BUSINESS beating him. And, the one thing that always came to mind, was that he was always written as a noble, peaceful, almost child-like character with vast power. An innocent.
But, Thor has always been written as a warrior first, anything else came last.
If you want to waste a week of your life (as I probably havefacepalm2), you can search and find that many of the greatest feats one of these characters has, the other has also, or feats on similar levels. Everything from energy manipulation, matter manipulation, speed, destruction on gigantic scales, soaking up punishment, working with time, etc.

Surfer has used his speed in battle more than Thor has and has more as well as much better in and out of combat speed feats than Thor does (largely because Thors speed is not really even on a comparable level....). In battle, yes surfer doesnt use his speed as often as he should but he is hardly the only character guilty of this and with characters like surfer who have a new power for every day of the week there are only so many powers that can be highlighted in a specific issue before the match becomes overly lopsided. Surfer does not get beaten by people who shouldnt be beating him when he gets serious (frankly surfer deosnt often get BEATEN by people who shouldnt be beating him at all). The only times they ever last a while with him are times when he is obviously holding back and constantly begging them to stop fighting him.

I do agree with the latter part of your post though as it is true that both of these characters have feats on comparable levels.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wow! I didn't know you were that slow. By science I mean Physics. If comics are not logical then explain why the suspension of disbelief exists.

Just because some science in comics in faulty doesn't mean we can disregard all science in comics. After all, force is force. How would you know if Thor is stronger than Aquaman without science?

Dude you come with retarded answers all day long.
When it works in your favor it's right.
When it doesn't it's wrong.

I take it back, it's not your statements that are retarded.

Originally posted by h1a8
Also, 10x Thor's strength is still herald level strength. For example, Superman is more than 10x Thor's strength when you consider top feats.

Wow

thor