Abraxas vs Dream of The Endless

Originally posted by zopzop
But I don't love Abraxas, I begrudgingly respect his power. The conceptual being representing the multiverse and everything in it was powerless to stop him and was begging for help.

Dream : the embodiment of ONE of the many aspects in ONE universe
Eternity : Embodiment of the Universe and EVERYTHING in it
Multi-Eternity : EVERY Eternity in the Multiverse (aka he represents the Multiverse and everything in it)

Multi-Eternity >>>>>>>>>>>>>Eternity>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dream. And Abraxas was greater than Multi-Eternity!

i don't think it follows--AT ALL--that abraxas>multi-eternity. at all. abraxas was more akin to a disease, imo, one that could not be expelled by multi, for whatever PIS reason. do we simply assume galactus>multi-eternity as well? i mean, the un did seem to be some part of him (allegedly) and we saw the un destroy and create the multi-verse. we also saw abraxas POWERLESS to prevent g from taking the un AWAY from him. so, g/un>>>>abraxas>>>multi-eternity?? please.... but we could also say that g>abraxas/un because, well, he DID take it from him and abraxas couldn't do a thing about it.

so, what do we take from this? abraxas sucks and multi-eternity is a chump who i have no doubt rulk could punch out.

Originally posted by Galan007
Do you not see that it is possible for 'character a' to be more powerful than 'character b', without 'character a' having the power to erase 'character b' from existence?

In even simpler terms: IF Abraxas were more powerful than Dream, it doesn't mean he is capable of erasing the concept Dream embodies.

His presence warps reality, I'm sure he can wipe a concept from existence.

Originally posted by zopzop
I'm sure he can wipe a concept from existence.

Originally posted by Galan007
Opinion aside, what exactly are you basing this on..?

The fact that Multi-Etenrity was in fear of it's existence (no universe/no multiverse, no concept right)?

Even barring that, his presence was warping reality on a universal scale, why couldn't he erase a concept if he put his mind to it, if his mere presence was warping the fabric of reality?

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't think it follows--AT ALL--that abraxas>multi-eternity. at all. abraxas was more akin to a disease, imo, one that could not be expelled by multi, for whatever PIS reason. do we simply assume galactus>multi-eternity as well? i mean, the un did seem to be some part of him (allegedly) and we saw the un destroy and create the multi-verse. we also saw abraxas POWERLESS to prevent g from taking the un AWAY from him. so, g/un>>>>abraxas>>>multi-eternity?? please.... but we could also say that g>abraxas/un because, well, he DID take it from him and abraxas couldn't do a thing about it.

so, what do we take from this? abraxas sucks and multi-eternity is a chump who i have no doubt rulk could punch out.

Additionally, Galactus isn't one to not acknowledge a credible threat--his entire character history has proven that much.... Yet he didn't hesitate in the slightest to call Abraxas "nothing." That one statement holds more weight than most would like to admit, imo.

Originally posted by zopzop
why couldn't he erase a concept if he put his mind to it, if his mere presence was warping the fabric of reality?

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't think it follows--AT ALL--that abraxas>multi-eternity. at all. abraxas was more akin to a disease, imo, one that could not be expelled by multi, for whatever PIS reason. do we simply assume galactus>multi-eternity as well? i mean, the un did seem to be some part of him (allegedly) and we saw the un destroy and create the multi-verse. we also saw abraxas POWERLESS to prevent g from taking the un AWAY from him. so, g/un>>>>abraxas>>>multi-eternity?? please.... but we could also say that g>abraxas/un because, well, he DID take it from him and abraxas couldn't do a thing about it.

so, what do we take from this? abraxas sucks and multi-eternity is a chump who i have no doubt rulk could punch out.

The embodiment of the MULTIVERSE was powerless before Abraxas. I don't care how you want to look at it, that's what was shown on panel.

Galactus' role was snatching the UN away from Abraxas and that's what was used to destroy him and undo the things he did to the multiverse.

Being beaten by Galactus using the UN isn't a low showing at all. In that story it was stated that he had a special bond with the UN and considered it a part of him, that's how he was able to snatch it from Abraxas' hands. Nothing else they tried in that entire arc worked. It took Franklin and Valeria burning out their powers to resurrect Galactus and for him to steal the UN from Abraxas to win the day.

Originally posted by zopzop
The embodiment of the MULTIVERSE was powerless before Abraxas. I don't care how you want to look at it, that's what was shown on panel.

Galactus' role was snatching the UN away from Abraxas and that's what was used to destroy him and undo the things he did to the multiverse.

Being beaten by Galactus using the UN isn't a low showing at all. In that story it was stated that he had a special bond with the UN and considered it a part of him, that's how he was able to snatch it from Abraxas' hands. Nothing else they tried in that entire arc worked. It took Franklin and Valeria burning out their powers to resurrect Galactus and for him to steal the UN from Abraxas to win the day.

but he wasn't beaten by galactus using the un. 😐

abraxas had it in his hands and g was able to casually take it from him while calling him 'nothing'. a regular old human, with no special connection to the un, ended abraxas. since the un is part of g (allegedly) g>>>>multi-eternity as well. were abraxas LITERALLY more powerful than the embodiment of the entire multiverse i doubt he would have walked around just letting things 'warp' or merge, or whatever the hell was happening. people are powerless against cancer. does that mean a single cancer cell>>>>>a human being? that's always been my view of abraxas.

Originally posted by leonidas
but he wasn't beaten by galactus using the un. 😐

abraxas had it in his hands and g was able to casually take it from him while calling him 'nothing'. a regular old human, with no special connection to the un, ended abraxas. since the un is part of g (allegedly) g>>>>multi-eternity as well. were abraxas LITERALLY more powerful than the embodiment of the entire multiverse i doubt he would have walked around just letting things 'warp' or merge, or whatever the hell was happening. people are powerless against cancer. does that mean a single cancer cell>>>>>a human being? that's always been my view of abraxas.

Originally posted by leonidas
but he wasn't beaten by galactus using the un. 😐

abraxas had it in his hands and g was able to casually take it from him while calling him 'nothing'. a regular old human, with no special connection to the un, ended abraxas. since the un is part of g (allegedly) g>>>>multi-eternity as well. were abraxas LITERALLY more powerful than the embodiment of the entire multiverse i doubt he would have walked around just letting things 'warp' or merge, or whatever the hell was happening. people are powerless against cancer. does that mean a single cancer cell>>>>>a human being? that's always been my view of abraxas.

Originally posted by Galan007
Wurd. He's a lot like Bubonicus in that sense.

Not really. Bubonicus, infected ONE Eternity. The rest of the multiverse was fine. Also Bubonicus' diseases were so powerful they affected : abstracts, cosmic forces, heralds, demons, and even machines. But for all his power he was only ever a threat to a single Eternity.

Abraxas had MULTI-Eternity in fear and begging for help and causing multiverse wide chaos.

Huge difference.

Originally posted by leonidas
but he wasn't beaten by galactus using the un. 😐

abraxas had it in his hands and g was able to casually take it from him while calling him 'nothing'. a regular old human, with no special connection to the un, ended abraxas. since the un is part of g (allegedly) g>>>>multi-eternity as well. were abraxas LITERALLY more powerful than the embodiment of the entire multiverse i doubt he would have walked around just letting things 'warp' or merge, or whatever the hell was happening. people are powerless against cancer. does that mean a single cancer cell>>>>>a human being? that's always been my view of abraxas.

A 'regular old human'? Reed? Are you serious? That "regular old human" beat the LT and a bunch of other cosmics by redirecting their own power at them. That "regular old human" is basically OMNISCIENT since he used the UN to wipe out the damage Abraxas did to the multiverse. I call Reed "omniscient" because if you are aware of how the UN works, it would take nothing less than that to use it the way Reed did.

Regarding cancer vs a human being. You know how that ends right? And for all our medicinal knowledge and tech we can't do jack sh|t against it. Bad analogy.

Originally posted by Galan007
Wurd. He's a lot like Bubonicus in that sense.

Originally posted by zopzop
Not really. Bubonicus, infected ONE Eternity. The rest of the multiverse was fine. Also Bubonicus' diseases were so powerful they affected : abstracts, cosmic forces, heralds, demons, and even machines. But for all his power he was only ever a threat to a single Eternity.

Abraxas had MULTI-Eternity in fear and begging for help and causing multiverse wide chaos.

Huge difference.

I didn't say he and Bubonicus were the exact same, I said they were 'a lot alike'. ie. Bubonicus was able to infect universes with his cancer-like power, and Abraxas was able to do much the same type of thing. Not the same thing, just similar.

That is all.

Originally posted by Galan007
Good lord you're on quite an Abraxas kick today. srsly

I didn't say he and Bubonicus were the exact same, I said they were 'a lot alike'. ie. Bubonicus was able to infect universes with his cancer-like power, and Abraxas was able to do much the same type of thing. THAT is the similarity they have with one another.

Infecting something with a terminal disease and warping reality by your mere presence couldn't be more different.

EDIT -

One sec give me a chance to find relevant scans. They are in my older posts regarding Abraxas and Phoenix IX.

Originally posted by zopzop
Infecting something with a terminal disease and warping reality by your mere presence couldn't be more different.

EDIT -

One sec give me a chance to find relevant scans. They are in my older posts regarding Abraxas and Phoenix IX.

Originally posted by zopzop
Infecting something with a terminal disease and warping reality by your mere presence couldn't be more different.

They both infect realities in a manner of speaking, fella. That's all I was getting at. It wasn't a jab at Abraxas, so you don't need to get so defensive. 🙂

[edit]
Save the scans. I've seen them. Multiple times.

Originally posted by zopzop
A 'regular old human'? Reed? Are you serious? That "regular old human" beat the LT and a bunch of other cosmics by redirecting their own power at them. That "regular old human" is basically OMNISCIENT since he used the UN to wipe out the damage Abraxas did to the multiverse. I call Reed "omniscient" because if you are aware of how the UN works, it would take nothing less than that to use it the way Reed did.

Regarding cancer vs a human being. You know how that ends right? And for all our medicinal knowledge and tech we can't do jack sh|t against it. Bad analogy.

huh? it doesn't always end badly..... and the analogy fits well enough to make my point that you don't necessarily need to be more powerful than something to be able to 'kill' it.

in the grand scheme of things reed is exactly a regular old human. and now you're calling reed omniscient? 😑 yeah.... i'll pass on believing that.

and quan--stay in your lane with the other c-list debaters. with only one sentence uttered on this page you've already displayed your ignorance of the proceedings brilliantly! understand what's being discussed before offering your meaningless opinion on something. that should preclude you being involved in any debate. ever. 😂 oh, and i don't use caps because i know it bothers you as evinced by the fact that you seem unable to wait to bring it up. you're like a little puppy wagging it's tongue bouncing around my ankles--'no caps!' pant-pant 'no caps! pant-pant 'no caps!' but i don't expect more from you. i know it's the extent of your debating ability. 😆

Originally posted by Galan007
facepalm

They both infect realities in a manner of speaking, fella. That's all I was getting at. It wasn't a jab at Abraxas, so you don't need to get so defensive. 🙂

[edit]
Save the scans. I've seen them. Multiple times.

amen. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
huh? it doesn't always end badly..... and the analogy fits well enough to make my point that you don't necessarily need to be more powerful than something to be able to 'kill' it.

in the grand scheme of things reed is exactly a regular old human. and now you're calling reed omniscient? 😑 yeah.... i'll pass on believing that.

and quan--stay in your lane with the other c-list debaters. with only one sentence uttered on this page you've already displayed your ignorance of the proceedings brilliantly! understand what's being discussed before offering your meaningless opinion on something. that should preclude you being involved in any debate. ever. 😂 oh, and i don't use caps because i know it bothers you as evinced by the fact that you seem unable to wait to bring it up. you're like a little puppy wagging it's tongue bouncing around my ankles--'no caps!' pant-pant 'no caps! pant-pant 'no caps!' but i don't expect more from you. i know it's the extent of your debating ability. 😆

He wasn't a cancer like Bubonicus was and I resent your personal remarks. I tease you for two reasons. First off it is in nature to do so. Secondly, it's a laziness I kind of detest in posters who take shortcuts by using u instead of you. It shows your character and my debating is leaps and bounds above yours. It always has been and always will be. I hope and pray you improve so you can see things from my level. One can dream.

Originally posted by Galan007
facepalm

They both infect realities in a manner of speaking, fella. That's all I was getting at. It wasn't a jab at Abraxas, so you don't need to get so defensive. 🙂

[edit]
Save the scans. I've seen them. Multiple times.

I understand, but Quan and I were saying it's not as simple as that.

Back on the Abraxas vs Dream topic :

This is who Abraxas punked :

Who is 'regular' Eternity? According to the LT - The unchallenged lord of all there is -

Who is "multi-"Eternity? The embodiment of the boundless multiverse. And according to Dormammu "Worlds within worlds. Dimensions folding into themselves. Entire universes being born and collapsing into ruin. And yet I sense all this is but the merest fraction of what Eternity is" -

That was the guy that was powerless before Abraxas. Dream is so far out of his league here it's not even funny.