Manga comparison thread

Originally posted by socool8520
Meteors that could kill him also. lol Kirin has shit prep time and is telegraphed like crazy. Actual attack is instant, I agree, but prep time and execution are from instant. lol Itachi, well.....He's Itachi...nuff said

Death is clearly not that big a deal to Madara.
Dimension busting and Lightspeed attacks > all.
Seriously though, it has prep time (if there are no storm clouds), and while it is telegraphed, Sasuke wasted time explaining the mechanics as opposed to just using it.
It's why Itachi is called the King. kruemelmonsteryn0

Originally posted by socool8520
SM Naruto was able to hang with pain and pull oout the W. He also was one of few people to subdue and injure Kurama. He did this in SM. Sure he had help, but so has everyone else who has maipulated or subdued Kurama. His SM is a little undr rated imo.

He was only able to hang with Pain because he knew their abilities before hand, he had the Toads to take care of the Animal Path Summons, and Deva was powerless for most of Naruto's fight with the 6 Paths.
Deva took him out with ease once his powers returned.

SM is powerful no doubt, but it is no KCM when it comes to combat. The only reason he was spamming Mega Rasengans against Kurama was because that was a mental battle and Naruto was continuously taking in Natural Energy in the physical world. He wouldn't be able to do the same thing if he battled Kurama in the physical world.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
He lost to Pain.

He had quite a bit of help with Kurama(that and his Sage Mode was basically unlimited at the time since he was completely motionless).

And he defeated pain at the same time. so.....

I said he had help. 8 tails blocked like one or two attacks if I remember correctly, and Kushina helped at the end. The attacks and injuring of Kurama was all Naruto wasn't it? Impressive imo. Besides, its not like he has special eyes or a bloodline that aids him greatly 😛

Sure he was motionless, but it really strikes me as no different than if he makes a clone that sits motionless all the time. And without Kurama eating up all his chakra now, he should be able to make a bunch more now prolonging this mode.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Death is clearly not that big a deal to Madara.
Dimension busting and Lightspeed attacks > all.
Seriously though, it has prep time (if there are no storm clouds), and while it is telegraphed, Sasuke wasted time explaining the mechanics as opposed to just using it.
It's why Itachi is called the King. kruemelmonsteryn0

SM is powerful no doubt, but it is no KCM when it comes to combat. The only reason he was spamming Mega Rasengans against Kurama was because that was a mental battle and Naruto was continuously taking in Natural Energy in the physical world. He wouldn't be able to do the same thing if he battled Kurama in the physical world.

I assume you are pretty much joking right?

i wouldn't argue that KCM is inferior to SM, just that it is not ridiculously so that naruto drops from top 4 to top 30.

Also, if Kurama was in the physical world, then Naruto wouldn't have to worry nearly as much about having his chakra drained and would be able to fuse with the toads, thus making him able to spam rasengans to his heart's content. 😛

Originally posted by socool8520
And he defeated pain at the same time. so.....

I said he had help. 8 tails blocked like one or two attacks if I remember correctly, and Kushina helped at the end. The attacks and injuring of Kurama was all Naruto wasn't it? Impressive imo. Besides, its not like he has special eyes or a bloodline that aids him greatly 😛

Sure he was motionless, but it really strikes me as no different than if he makes a clone that sits motionless all the time. And without Kurama eating up all his chakra now, he should be able to make a bunch more now prolonging this mode.

Well no. He lost to Pain. The only reason Naruto managed to get out of the situation was because of Hinata's sacrifice and Minato's forethought. Naruto himself was helpless.

Again, without the help he would have lost. And saying he didn't have some things to help doesn't mean much of anything when he would have lost were in not for Kushina.

But it isn't different. Kurama couldn't do anything about Naruto sitting still. The same could not be said for a clone.

Naruto also had prep for his battle with Pain.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well no. He lost to Pain. The only reason Naruto managed to get out of the situation was because of Hinata's sacrifice and Minato's forethought. Naruto himself was helpless.

Again, without the help he would have lost. And saying he didn't have some things to help doesn't mean much of anything when he would have lost were in not for Kushina.

But it isn't different. Kurama couldn't do anything about Naruto sitting still. The same could not be said for a clone.

Fair enough

Okay, and without sharingan or a bloodline, the results would probably have been the same for MAD and HASH. Point is, he was able to injure kurama solo, a feat that we assume only 3 other people have done, although it was never shown that Mad or Hash actually had to fight Kurama due to their suppressive abilities. Only Minato has been shown to actually legitimately battle the nine tails that I can remember.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Naruto also had prep for his battle with Pain.

Okay, and do you think with prep, someone like Tsunade would have done better than Naruto? the only one it really stated that would have faired better than Naruto would have been Jiraiya. Sure there are a few others, but the list is small imo.

Originally posted by socool8520
Fair enough

Okay, and without sharingan or a bloodline, the results would probably have been the same for MAD and HASH. Point is, he was able to injure kurama solo, a feat that we assume only 3 other people have done, although it was never shown that Mad or Hash actually had to fight Kurama due to their suppressive abilities. Only Minato has been shown to actually legitimately battle the nine tails that I can remember.

If you eliminate the repressing abilities of both characters(not the moves entirely), Madara and Hashirama could still kill Kurama without much difficulty.

Originally posted by socool8520
I assume you are pretty much joking right?

i wouldn't argue that KCM is inferior to SM, just that it is not ridiculously so that naruto drops from top 4 to top 30.

Also, if Kurama was in the physical world, then Naruto wouldn't have to worry nearly as much about having his chakra drained and would be able to fuse with the toads, thus making him able to spam rasengans to his heart's content. 😛

Not with the Kirin comment. And Itachi is the King. 313

Current KCM Naruto can swat away Bijuu damas like they were flies, and he is at least as fast in pure speed as Minato was with FTG. Before he completely melded his chakra with Kurama, he was capable of mass producing clones, each of which could take on a Kage. Sage Mode Naruto is inferior.
I don't agree with the top 30 thing though. Personally haven't thought about how high he'd be.

Good point about toad fusing. He wouldn't always have the Toad Elders though, and he certainly didn't against Kurama or the Third Raikage.
The chakra draining thing works an an advantage to both Kurama and Naruto.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If you eliminate the repressing abilities of both characters(not the moves entirely), Madara and Hashirama could still kill Kurama without much difficulty.

I disagree. If you take away FAPS for madara, not much he is doing to Kurama. If you keep FAPS, he could win, but I would think it would be far from easy. Honestly, I think Kurama would shit all over Mokuton, and that is the strongest attack Hash has I think. I think without their suppressive abilities, Hash has a much harder time than Madara due to madara's defensive capabilities.

The reason I used Top 30 was because it was just a simple number. I have no idea where he'd rank either. Naruto is filled with incomparable abilities.

Originally posted by socool8520
I disagree. If you take away FAPS for madara, not much he is doing to Kurama. If you keep FAPS, he could win, but I would think it would be far from easy. Honestly, I think Kurama would shit all over Mokuton, and that is the strongest attack Hash has I think. I think without their suppressive abilities, Hash has a much harder time than Madara due to madara's defensive capabilities.

Madara's Susano'o is more impressive than Kurama. Hashirama was able to overcome both.

Never mind the fact that you're trying to handicap Hashirama and Madara to put them on the same level as Naruto without a handicap.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Not with the Kirin comment. And Itachi is the King. 313

Current KCM Naruto can swat away Bijuu damas like they were flies, and he is at least as fast in pure speed as Minato was with FTG. Before he completely melded his chakra with Kurama, he was capable of mass producing clones, each of which could take on a Kage. Sage Mode Naruto is inferior.
I don't agree with the top 30 thing though. Personally haven't thought about how high he'd be.

Point about toad fusing. He wouldn't always have the Toad Elders though, and he certainly didn't against Kurama or the Third Raikage.
The chakra draining thing works an an advantage to both Kurama and Naruto.

Kirin....yes the attack is instant, and even though he explained it to Itachi (and mostly for our sake), there was still a big electrical dragon in the sky telegraphing impending doom. If you can't figure out that a giant electrical dragon in the sky is a bad thing and don't come up with a defense, you deserve to die.

Again, no arguement with KCM>SM. but his SM was enough to keep up with a Kage and his sensory abilities are a definite advantage putting him higher than the top 30 imo. I thought it was you who sugested it would drop him that far.

You're right he didn't. But the option is there. In those situations they weren't needed. They would more than likely be used in the situation you proposed I would think. also, with the relationship that Kurama had with Naruto at that point, his chakra being drained was not beneficial to him at all. Which is why he had to limit himself. if he were able to go all out with sage mode like Jiraiya, the pain fight could have been very different imo.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel

Madara's Susano'o is more impressive than Kurama. Hashirama was able to overcome both.

Never mind the fact that you're trying to handicap Hashirama and Madara to put them on the same level as Naruto without a handicap.

I disagree. Susano'o is good, but I think Kurama could bust it. you already know my stance on why Hash achieved that.

I wasn't trying to handicap them at all. I simply stated that they would not have faired as well without the aid they have from their special abilites specifically targeted to manipulate bijuu, while talking up why I believe the SM naruto feat was just as valid with his aid. They had a special advantage, he had a special advantage.

Originally posted by socool8520
I disagree. Susano'o is good, but I think Kurama could bust it. you already know my stance on why Hash achieved that.

I wasn't trying to handicap them at all. I simply stated that they would not have faired as well without the aid they have from their special abilites specifically targeted to manipulate bijuu, while talking up why I believe the SM naruto feat was just as valid with his aid. They had a special advantage, he had a special advantage.

Hashirama is explicitly stronger than Madara.

They had an advantage they were born with. Naruto was flat out given help. The two will never be the same. It's like saying Sasuke beat Bee when he had multiple people helping him(and still lost).

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Hashirama is explicitly stronger than Madara.

They had an advantage they were born with. Naruto was flat out given help. The two will never be the same. It's like saying Sasuke beat Bee when he had multiple people helping him(and still lost).

Now that I think about, I find Naruto's ability to hang with Kurama with some help more impressive than what Hash and Mad did in a pure fighting stand point. Neither Mad or Hash actually had to fight Kurama....at all. Well, maybe Hash had to stall to supress him. not too mention he had a necklace that helped (that he wasn't born with 😛)

Hashirama's Mokutana was shown grappling Kurama.

Originally posted by socool8520
Okay, and do you think with prep, someone like Tsunade would have done better than Naruto? the only one it really stated that would have faired better than Naruto would have been Jiraiya. Sure there are a few others, but the list is small imo.

I was just pointing it out bro. Naruto had 2 sage-mode clones to drawn on, plus Pain started at a disadvantage with Deva Path out of commission and having just fought pretty much all of Konoha. And Pain still beat him.

Originally posted by socool8520
Kirin....yes the attack is instant, and even though he explained it to Itachi (and mostly for our sake), there was still a big electrical dragon in the sky telegraphing impending doom. If you can't figure out that a giant electrical dragon in the sky is a bad thing and don't come up with a defense, you deserve to die.

Again, no arguement with KCM>SM. but his SM was enough to keep up with a Kage and his sensory abilities are a definite advantage putting him higher than the top 30 imo. I thought it was you who sugested it would drop him that far.

You're right he didn't. But the option is there. In those situations they weren't needed. They would more than likely be used in the situation you proposed I would think. also, with the relationship that Kurama had with Naruto at that point, his chakra being drained was not beneficial to him at all. Which is why he had to limit himself. if he were able to go all out with sage mode like Jiraiya, the pain fight could have been very different imo.

Never said the attack is instant. Far from it, seeing as Susano'o's activation speed is superior. It's isn't even Lightspeed fast, even though the Databook states as such.
That 'electrical dragon' is less telegraphed than the Bijuu Dama. All Sasuke has to do after the Lightning is there, is to control it, and then send it towards the enemy.
There aren't many defences against Kirin anyway, so it wouldn't matter. FTG, Susano'o with Yata Mirror & Izanagi (if it is active) are about the only things I can think of that would help defend against Kirin.

Which Kage did SM Naruto keep up with?
He has better sensory abilities in SM which gives him better reaction times to attacks, as well as better strength & durability in all likelihood. That's about it.

Don't think it would have been extremely different. The SM Naruto that fought Kurama, maybe, but not the SM Naruto that fought Pain. Deva already showed he could take out one of the toads fairly easily, with Banshou Tenin.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Never said the attack is instant. Far from it, seeing as Susano'o's activation speed is superior. It's isn't even Lightspeed fast, even though the Databook states as such.

I haven't seen the databooks. I'll have to shop around for those. i think it pretty much is instant once it is finally directed.

That 'electrical dragon' is less telegraphed than the Bijuu Dama. All Sasuke has to do after the Lightning is there, is to control it, and then send it towards the enemy.
There aren't many defences against Kirin anyway, so it wouldn't matter. FTG, Susano'o with Yata Mirror & Izanagi (if it is active) are about the only things I can think of that would help defend against Kirin.

IDK, Naruto's bijuu dama is pretty damn fast and less telegraphed. By the time he created it, he was already shooting it to counteract with the other beast balls iirc. But on the whole, I agree. It has been shown to be somewhat slow in preparation for whatever reason.

Which Kage did SM Naruto keep up with?
He has better sensory abilities in SM which gives him better reaction times to attacks, as well as better strength & durability in all likelihood. That's about it.

It was brief, but he did end the third raikage in SM.
All those things you mentioned make him a very formidable opponent on a Kage level.

Don't think it would have been extremely different. The SM Naruto that fought Kurama, maybe, but not the SM Naruto that fought Pain. Deva already showed he could take out one of the toads fairly easily, with Banshou Tenin.

If he fought the way he did against Kurama in SM, I think he would have faired better against Pain. It would have been a lot harder for Pain to kill the toads, with mass amounts of SM clones using big ball rasengans all over the place. This is what I meant by limited by Kurama. Naruto could not do these things against Pain because of Kurama draining iirc.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I was just pointing it out bro. Naruto had 2 sage-mode clones to drawn on, plus Pain started at a disadvantage with Deva Path out of commission and having just fought pretty much all of Konoha. And Pain still beat him.

I didn't mean to be rude. Just stating that most people would not have done as well whether they had prep or not