Originally posted by srankmissingninWoah, hold up a bit. Let me try and work this out
Cap solos. Iron Fist might be the most recent boner factor for the current batch of KMC trolls
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Cap solos. Iron Fist might be the most recent boner factor for the current batch of KMC trolls
There, I think I got it
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Even if the rocket Cap dodged was 20 times slower than the bullet Danny caught (which it isn't, 10% slower maybe).
Don't just make up numbers. 10% slower? The bullet was fired from a modern assault rifle, not some little glock, so we're actually talking 2500+ fps. Shoulder-fire rockets are usually between 500-900 fps. If you think this one is much faster, I'd like some proof.
It's a much better speed feat.
What issue is it in? I want to see it. Because as you described it, it's so much faster than Cap is normally depicted.
but what was shown on panel was Red Skull firing three bullets at his target, and then Captain America (who was shown near Skull when the shots were fired) crossing the room to intercept the bullets and shield the target. You can make up all the excuses you want, but that is what happen.
So Cap is a speedster now? He grew a whole new super-power out of nowhere?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'd say I was surprised that you have poor taste in television and film... but I already guessed that you would based on your taste in comics.... and your sig and avi. 😎
Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Is it that controversial? One of them dances through machine gun fire. The other is Captain America.How does a peak human like Cap ever hit a guy several tiers faster and more skilled in comics? PIS. There's no PIS here, so...
You have never seen cap casual dodge machine gun fire or even automatic laser fire... really like really?
Also your question is is built on false information "several tiers faster" so for your sake lets just drop it...
Also not sure if you knew Randy got shot in the chest recently so yeah... thers that!
Originally posted by Lord Feron
You have never seen cap casual dodge machine gun fire or even automatic laser fire... really like really?
like I said, aim-dodging =/= bullet-timing.
Example 1: Batman is an aim-dodger and, on panel, appears to avoid getting shot with considerable skill as expected of a comic book peak human. Cass is a bullet-timer and, on panel, sees a bullet coming, thinks about a fun way to dodge it and dodges it. There is a huge speed gap between the two, and Cass tears Bruce apart without PIS.
Example 2: Neo and Trinity avoid bullets when they storm that skyscraper by doing wall-runs and flips and such like Batman/Cap would do. They outmaneuver their opponents aim . Neo doesn't actually see a bullet coming until he's on the rooftop, and even then all he can do is flail about awkwardly and still get grazed. At that point, Neo is demonstrably quicker than peak human. Trinity is appropriately impressed.
If he were fast enough to see it up close and dodge it very easily, he would be a tier above, like an Agent, Daredevil or Cass. If he were fast enough to see, parry and dance through dozens of them at once, he would be yet another tier higher: Danny and Spider-Man territory.
Also your question is is built on false information "several tiers faster" so for your sake lets just drop it...
Thank you. But I have consistent portrayals of characters, sound theory and reason on my side. I'll take care of my own sake.
Originally posted by h1a8
No he isn't. A missile isn't as fast as a bullet in the beginning. Cap never outpaced bullets. The Red Skull scan was debunked a long time ago. Either the first three shots missed, writer's intention wasn't to literally show Cap can run faster than a bullet, or it was PIS (choose).Catching a bullet is more relevant than anything here. Think about it.
Please Cap reflex speed is so fast he caught Danny punch speed "easily" in there first match.
Second Cap has blocked two energy beams easily with metal gauntlets and another time three times with his energy shield in different areas in one panel.
Seriously you want hand/arm speed. The guy threw his shield and has intercepted Thor's hammer throw.
Now that is speed.
Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Is it that controversial? One of them dances through machine gun fire. The other is Captain America.
the other is captain america? 😐
so, you have, what--one, two maybe, scans where fist does that? yet every other time, where his speed is NOT that great, are the instances of PIS? 😑
that is highballing and ignores the overwhelming number of feats that would show THAT feat to be the exception, not the rule. in direct combat cap was shown to be his very clear superior. IF has been given some amps, but he still is clearly inferior to logan in h2h combat and is CERTAINLY not 'tiers' faster than logan, with whom cap is also consistently shown to be a peer.
How does a peak human like Cap ever hit a guy several tiers faster and more skilled in comics? PIS. There's no PIS here, so...
"peak human"? seriously? handbook and narrative statement aside, cap is certainly shown to be consistently above 'peak human', original intent notwithstanding. to say IF is 'tiers' above cap in speed and skill (when cap has schooled him and guys like spiderman himself) is, frankly, ridiculous.
in this fight the only advantages fist has, imo, are ranged attacks which cap can defend against, and a healing/durability edge (over cap, but not bane), but that edge is not great enough to get him the win. i don't see him using his chi exotically as that would not be in character for him.
either alone would give him hell. together? i don't see danny winning this fight......
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Also Capt been stated on pannel to be the next step in human evolution. Capt not peak human in terms of what a human can achieve currently. He the peak a human will ever achieve. He is beyond what any living human can become. Which is why he physically beyond peak humans like Daredevil and Batman
👆
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Also Capt been stated on pannel to be the next step in human evolution. Capt not peak human in terms of what a human can achieve currently. He the peak a human will ever achieve. He is beyond what any living human can become. Which is why he physically beyond peak humans like Daredevil and Batman
Narrative hyperbole happens all the time. Because no, Cap's feats are not consistently better than those of Batman or Daredevil (who is much faster).
Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Narrative hyperbole happens all the time. Because no, Cap's feats are not consistently better than those of Batman or Daredevil (who is much faster).
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Do you not read Captain America comics? Is that what the problem is? He is called a Super Soldier and not a Peakhuman Soldier for a reason... and the reason is that is his superhuman. Hell, the last Cap arc was about a super human super soldier who had superhuman strength and speed (stated as being two times greater than the human limit), who hated Cap for being faster and stronger than he was and in essence replacing him (... plus stealing his girl friend but whatever). Ignoring the fact that Cap's feats are BLATANTLY better than Batman and Daredevil on consistent basis, there is a reason why Bucky says Cap has 3-4x his speed and strength and Cable said the same thing... because he does... because he is superhuman... which is why he has better feats.
I really wish someone would make a comprehensive Cap respect thread, so posters who are trying to get away by saying "Cap isn't displayed as better than Batman..." would be able to see how stupid they sound to people that actually read Captain America comics...
Originally posted by leonidasso, you have, what--one, two maybe, scans where fist does that? yet every other time, where his speed is NOT that great, are the instances of PIS? 😑
No, its his consistent portrayal. Spider-Man's been shot before, too. Spider-Man's been hit by slow enemies before. Are you going to argue that he isn't that fast anymore?
in direct combat cap was shown to be his very clear superior.
If you're referring to when the two fought in Avengers mansion, surely there's some important bits of context that you're leaving out. Perhaps you want to mention the fact that Danny was injured from fighting the freaking Wrecking Crew right before it (he was surprised to still be alive)? Or the fact that Danny was trying not to fight, while Cap wanted to fight very badly because he thought Danny killed Jarvis? Or the fact that even Cap admitted that Danny was holding back?
IF has been given some amps, but he still is clearly inferior to logan in h2h combat
Even though he smacks logan around like a beach ball every time they ever really fight? Where are you getting this?
The first time they fought, Danny was already exhausted and Logan surprised him. Logan never landed a single blow. Danny, while consciously holding back, kicked him around and threw him out the window. Logan came back with both Nightcrawler and Colossus and Danny beat them all around without taking a single hit before Storm showed up.
"peak human"? seriously? handbook and narrative statement aside, cap is certainly shown to be consistently above 'peak human', original intent notwithstanding.
In comic books, peak humans can do some pretty amazing things. Batman can snap a tree in half with a sidekick and support 2000 pounds over his head and get up after being punched through concrete walls and move so fast normal people have trouble following with their eyes. It isn't a slight to say someone is peak human.
But neither he nor Cap will do stuff like this:
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He is called a Super Soldier and not a Peakhuman Soldier for a reason...
Alliteration?
I really wish someone would make a comprehensive Cap respect thread, so posters who are trying to get away by saying "Cap isn't displayed as better than Batman..." would be able to see how stupid they sound to people that actually read Captain America comics... [/B]
So make one. Either light a candle or keep cursing the dark. I'm happy to be proven wrong with actual valid feats. The only impressive speed feats I've heard for Cap is one with bullets fired by Red Skull that seems disputed and one with an rpg that I asked to actually see.
I've read lots of Captain America, DD and Batman over the years. TO me, it seems like Cap has a little more stamina and strength than Bats, but no appreciable speed advantage. Meanwhile DD has speed and skill on both of them with less strength. Cap still just seems to aim-dodge and break down more powerful opponents with his superior skill. If you're taking what people say about him as direct evidence without feats, then I'm not impressed.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
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." would be able to see how stupid they sound to people that actually read Captain America comics...
Exactly. Cap has been stated to be the next step in human evolution. He is faster then bullet timers(bullet timers have admitted it) and has speed feats that Danny wished he had. Cap/Bane for the majority and sometimes easily at that.
Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Narrative hyperbole happens all the time. Because no, Cap's feats are not consistently better than those of Batman or Daredevil (who is much faster).
Daredevil has straight up stated Capts faster then he is. The fact you think Daredevil faster let a lone much faster, show syou have no business even in this debate.
Originally posted by Dream StuffEven though he smacks logan around like a beach ball every time they ever really fight? Where are you getting this?
Everytime? They fought twice. once before Wolveirne even ahd a healing factor written into his character, and Danny had to BFR him.
The other time, Wolverine won a sparing match handily, and IF start making excuses.
Originally posted by Dream StuffThe first time they fought, Danny was already exhausted and Logan surprised him. Logan never landed a single blow. Danny, while consciously holding back, kicked him around and threw him out the window. Logan came back with both Nightcrawler and Colossus and Danny beat them all around without taking a single hit before Storm showed up.
Funny how you yell at other about ignoring context and then do the same shit yourself. Wolverine had no define history or even powers at the time of the fight. Yet I love how you leave this part out.