Iron Fist vs Captain America and Bane

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
He wasent even a defined character yet or had defined powers thats the point. How can your solely arguement be a fight that was before the character had anya define power set or history? How do you not understannd that a crappy arguement?

Because feats matter more than history. I asked if he was losing a lot of fights to people now much weaker than him? If that's true, then all you're saying is relevant. If not, its window-dressing.

And Wolverine almost killed an IF who beat Danny ass into the ground. Wolverine has had no trouble fight Iron Fist or any chi amper for that matter.

Must haver missed it. Scans? Issue/page number?

[QUOTE]If your significantly superior in a fight you will be significantly superior in sparing. Have you ever sparred before?

This is really specious logic. There is no basis for assuming that two people holding back while fighting each other are holding back to the exact same degree. If fact, that would be a very weird coincidence.

I've sparred a lot. The better fighter doesn't always win in sparing, especially in a playful "outdoors on the lawn" kind of session. In fact, as a more skilled fighter going against some of my less skilled friends, I would hold back more because I wanted to see what they could do and had nothing to prove. I'm not trying to infer all of that into this sparring session, just saying that it doesn't count as a valid "win" if the fight isn't serious.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
This turned out to be a quote from Brubaker, one of the many, many people who have written Cap over the years. It is not a canonical "fact" or feat in any sense of the words.

Wrong. Bru got that from Cap sentinel of liberty adventures during Steve's WW2 days. You thought Bru came up with the idea....LOL Don't get me wrong he's a incredible writer but Bru statement did indeed match Cap's history.

Here's some other facts of Cap that you don't probably know.

The hand book label of Cap is Peak Human which seems to be all your going by.

The latter in cannon books have had him termed
Super human
Super Man
Super Soldier
Super Norman Human
Nearly Perfect Man
Perfect Man
Preternatural (if you don't know the meaning it means beyond man)
And of course one of my favorites from Mark Gruenwald himself:The peak of human "potential"...... which matches the next step of human evolution pretty well from the series that I earlier pointed out.

Another statement I like from the creator of the serum " a man unlike the world has never seen before."

Originally posted by Dream Stuff

BP landed a few shots which failed to harm Danny in any way. Meanwhile, Danny rained down countless blows on BP that proved mostly unable to even block. BP's vibranium suit got torn to shreds and he passed out. If it wasn't for the vibranium suit or the convenient tech he used to fix Danny, BP would have died a dozen times over.

Well obviously this shows your a bit biased no offense. Which is alright since your a Danny fan. Black Panther wasn't trying to kill Danny. Like Danny was trying to kill him.

Think about it. BP was fast enough to grab a metal trash can and dump it and trap Danny for a bit. And he was fast enough do to that.

Now imagine instead of a trash can or a tech to save Danny like he was trying. And imagine him using his more lethal weapons like vibranium claws or energy daggers.

They both were impressive but you only see the side of Danny. Clouded eyes only go so far.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Must haver missed it. Scans? Issue/page number?

Iron Fist/Wolverine issue 4

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
This is really specious logic. There is no basis for assuming that two people holding back while fighting each other are holding back to the exact same degree. If fact, that would be a very weird coincidence.

Not really at all. If your both high level fighters you natural would fight at the same intensity. It very easy to do especially for people at there levels.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff

I've sparred a lot. The better fighter doesn't always win in sparing, especially in a playful "outdoors on the lawn" kind of session.

Being out doors does not make you go less intense.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff

In fact, as a more skilled fighter going against some of my less skilled friends, I would hold back more because I wanted to see what they could do and had nothing to prove. I'm not trying to infer all of that into this sparring session, just saying that it doesn't count as a valid "win" if the fight isn't serious.

I not saying it a win in terms of normal fight. I am saying it complete disprove your crazy assumptions that iron fist is on another level then Wolverine. it would be painfully noticeable if someone was significantly better then someone else in sparing match. And it extremely easy to tell.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
P
I already explained the context of that. Danny was so wounded from fighting the Wrecking Crew shortly before that he thought himself lucky to be alive. Also, both he and Cap admitted that Danny was holding back and Cap was not.

True Danny went from holding back in the beginning which is accurate but at the end he quit holding back and used the Iron Fist Technique his most powerful strike.

Plus the strike he tried to land on Steve was not a held back attack as he stated he must try for Mistys Sake!!! IIRC then Steve caught that hit and was impressed on how Steve did it so easily.

But then again he was impressed by Cap's speed and strength. Danny commented on it as well 🙂

Might go have for to go with Cap.

I changed my mind.

IF 10/10

Originally posted by Dream Stuff

I'm glad you brought this up again, because I want to address the issue of comic book lasers in general. They are NOT as fast as real lasers. If they were, every street levelers who dodges one would have lightspeed reflexes. In fact, we have no idea how fast they are. Unlike a bullet, its completely unquantifiable.

Well if lasers don't count then neither do bullets. You argument that there slower then real lasers. Well I guess bullets job and there also slower then real bullets. That logic can apply both ways. Both types of logic must match for both otherwise then your just cherry picking what you want.

Originally posted by leonidas
really? so you must have loads of scans to back it up? you're using your single feat to highball. we don't use single scans here. we look at both combat feats and regular feats as well as history to form a general impression of the character.

Since I am new to the forum and people seemed reluctant to supply scans when I asked for them, I sort of didn't want to post to many. I thought it was not the norm, or something. Anyway, there are tons in this forum's Iron Fist respect thread and one of him parrying sub machine gun fire that I can't find again for the life of me. I have these on me at the moment.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63560350@N06/6943089221/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63560350@N06/6945353483/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63560350@N06/6945352985/

And one of him mauling BP, just to be thorough:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63560350@N06/6799241348/

all of that 'context' you say was left out is meaningless. danny couldn't even hit cap with a surprise attack.

If being beaten up by the Wrecking Crew shortly before is meaningless to you, then I guess I guess that's that.

[B]Spidey vs Cap in Civil War:

Jobbing, plain and simple. What stopped Pete from webbing Cap up from a distance and slinging him around like he has so many of his rogues? Why is Pete just now realizing how good of a fighter Cap is, despite personally having fought him and pointing that out several times before? If you don't see PIS there, again, I guess that's that.

note how she says he DODGES BULLETS, and his simple explanation

C'mon, need I explain again why what other characters say in dialogue doesn't count as a feat? Especially since the person who phrased it that way isn't a bullet-timer, so couldn't have seen Cap dodge a bullet after it was fired.

Winter Solider bullet-dodge: One bullet from a pistol (relatively low speed) with a lot of time to ready himself where Cap could clearly see where Bucky was aiming and when he pulled the trigger... but since that's just me speculating, I totally count that as a valid, low-end bullet-timing feat.

IF fist has a speed edge, it is MINIMAL. to say they are 'tiers' apart is simple ignorance.

A guy with Danny's high-end feats is still great deal faster than one who best is dodging a single pistol round. And its a good thing that I don't take other character's statements for evidence; if I did, Bucky's surprise would indicate that Cap didn't do that sort of thing often back in the war.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Well if lasers don't count then neither do bullets. You argument that there slower then real lasers.

Oh, come now... you're telling me you believe that all lasers/energy blasts in comics travel at light speed?

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63560350@N06/6943089221/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63560350@N06/6945353483/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63560350@N06/6945352985/

I though you were posting legit bullet time feat. Those are standard street level bullet dodge feats... which you wrote of as "aim dodging" for Cap... but they are legit bullet time feats when Iron Fist does them? 😕

Originally posted by Daredevil1
[B]True Danny went from holding back in the beginning which is accurate but at the end he quit holding back and used the Iron Fist Technique his most powerful strike.

Danny. Was. Nearly. Killed. Shortly. Before. Why do you think he was at 100%? He could barely even manage an iron fist with considerable strain. In those days, every time he used it, it made him weaker all around and he'd used it twice that day already. And Cap took it in the shield. Obviously Cap can take that shot in the shield. And it's not like Danny wanted to kill him. he assumed that knocking him into the wall would stop him. He was wrong, but Danny was still in no condition to win that fight.

What's stopping Danny from punching through Cap's shield and killing both Cap and Bane with one punch?

Nothing.

Originally posted by Mindset
What's stopping Danny from punching through Cap's shield and killing both Cap and Bane with one punch?

Nothing.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
capts shield is.............

👆

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I though you were posting legit bullet time feat. Those are standard street level bullet dodge feats... which you wrote of as "aim dodging" for Cap... but they are legit bullet time feats when Iron Fist does them? 😕

I was pretty clear before that typical street aim-dodging occurs when characters have to run, jump and move quickly around their opponents to stay ahead of their aim. Is Danny doing that? Is he doing anything other than moving parts of his body out of the way, slipping between bullets by fractions of an inch? In one scan, he is basically just walking and isn't even looking at the gunman at first; his head is pointed at where the bullets whizz by him.

And he's going straight at them.

Reread the Captain American respect thread, and show me how many of his alleged "bullet dodges" don't involved him doing acrobatics and running/jumping very quickly.

Originally posted by Mindset
getting punched in half.

👆

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
I was pretty clear before that typical street aim-dodging occurs when characters have to run, jump and move quickly around their opponents to stay ahead of their aim. Is Danny doing that? Is he doing anything other than moving parts of his body out of the way, slipping between bullets by fractions of an inch? In one scan, he is basically just walking and isn't even looking at the gunman at first; his head is pointed at where the bullets whizz by him.

And he's going straight at them.

Reread the Captain American respect thread, and show me how many of his alleged "bullet dodges" don't involved him doing acrobatics and running/jumping very quickly.

dude your clearly picking and choosing. This is getting little ridiculous.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
in your wet dreams perhaps.

What's stopping Cap from exposing the fact that Kung-Fu is a effeminate (that is pc for gaaaaaaaaaaaay), inefficient, impracticable and worthless "fighting" style and taking Iron Fist down and choking him out instantly?

Nothing. 😎