Originally posted by Mindset
What's stopping Danny from punching through Cap's shield and killing both Cap and Bane with one punch?Nothing.
Danny can't punch through Cap's shield. Harder hitters than even current-Danny have tried and failed.
Of course, he does have an aoe and a wide-burst. As little sense as it makes, I did see Cap block and wide-burst energy attack with his shield. How!? It only covers a fraction of his body!
Originally posted by Daredevil1
[B]Wrong. Bru got that from Cap sentinel of liberty adventures during Steve's WW2 days. You thought Bru came up with the idea....LOL
Why is that LOL-worthy? I got bad information and have never read Sentinel of Liberty. It still doesn't change the fact that "next step in human evolution" isn't a provable fact or a feat. Like I said, ask Magneto, the High Evolutionary, or a Celestial how they feel about that statement.
The hand book label of Cap is Peak Human which seems to be all your going by.
No, I'm going by my previous exposure to his feats. I've since recanted, if you'd notice. I don't read handbooks.
As for the last quote, I won't even copy/paste it, because statements from other characters don't count.
Originally posted by Dream StuffAs for the last quote, I won't even copy/paste it, because statements from other characters don't count.
you sound like a little kid "i dont like that so you cant use it as evidence because it contradicts my entire argument"
Originally posted by Dream Stuff
I was pretty clear before that typical street aim-dodging occurs when characters have to run, jump and move quickly around their opponents to stay ahead of their aim. Is Danny doing that? Is he doing anything other than moving parts of his body out of the way, slipping between bullets by fractions of an inch? In one scan, he is basically just walking and isn't even looking at the gunman at first; his head is pointed at where the bullets whizz by him.And he's going straight at them.
Reread the Captain American respect thread, and show me how many of his alleged "bullet dodges" don't involved him doing acrobatics and running/jumping very quickly.
If you don't see where the character is at the time the bullet is fired, relative to where they are when they dodge the bullet, then any feat can easily be written off as aim dodging.
This is bullet time speed feat. We see where when the bullets are fired. We see where Cap is and what he is doing when the bullets are fired, and then we see him throw his shields and block the bullets. Iron Fist's only legitimate bullet time fight is the one occasion he managed to catch a bullet.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
This is bullet time speed feat. We see where when the bullets are fired. We see where Cap is and what he is doing when the bullets are fired, and then we see him throw his shields and block the
That is a great feat! I don't agree with you about th IF feats: anytime you can walk straight toward your oppanent while only narrowly moving parts of your body to avoid bullets, you are above aim dodging. But I do have more more respect for cap's speed now.
Anyway, I'm embarrassed by how long I've spent on this already, so I'm off. I'll probably avoid this particular topic for a while so this conversation doesn't happen again. Nice hearing from you.
Originally posted by Dream Stuff
That is a great feat! I don't agree with you about th IF feats: anytime you can walk straight toward your oppanent while only narrowly moving parts of your body to avoid bullets, you are above aim dodging. But I do have more more respect for cap's speed now.Anyway, I'm embarrassed by how long I've spent on this already, so I'm off. I'll probably avoid this particular topic for a while so this conversation doesn't happen again. Nice hearing from you.
clap
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
umm yes they do. You cant just make up rules.you sound like a little kid "i dont like that so you cant use it as evidence because it contradicts my entire argument"
Actually, for future reference, is there a mod ruling on this? If this is a board where anything characters say about each other is considered as valid as what we actually see on panel, then I'll accept that and consider my future arguments accordingly.
Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Danny. Was. Nearly. Killed. Shortly. Before. Why do you think he was at 100%? He could barely even manage an iron fist with considerable strain. In those days, every time he used it, it made him weaker all around and he'd used it twice that day already. And Cap took it in the shield. Obviously Cap can take that shot in the shield. And it's not like Danny wanted to kill him. he assumed that knocking him into the wall would stop him. He was wrong, but Danny was still in no condition to win that fight.
The fact that he could still do a powerful Iron Fist speaks that he wasn't drained to the point of no return or was helpless. I agree with you he was not 100 percent. I'm not going to deny that.
But definitely Cap had the advantage and easily caught Danny's strike like nothing.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
🙄Of the two characters in this thread only one of them has ever been attributed with the ability to "see" bullets in slow motion, and it's not Iron Fist. It might be helpful for you to have some knowledge on the respective abilities and feats of both characters before you try and make the case that one is an aim dodger, while one is a legitimate bullet timer.
To be fair Danny has caught a bullet......oh see your response later. Still not sure if I think Cap is faster.
Originally posted by srankmissingninI really wish someone would make a comprehensive Cap respect thread, so posters who are trying to get away by saying "Cap isn't displayed as better than Batman..." would be able to see how stupid they sound to people that actually read Captain America comics...
My main response to that is look at the sort of people that Cap fights on a regular basis then look at Batman...Caps enemies are a notch superior.
Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Since I am new to the forum and people seemed reluctant to supply scans when I asked for them, I sort of didn't want to post to many. I thought it was not the norm, or something. Anyway, there are tons in this forum's Iron Fist respect thread and one of him parrying sub machine gun fire that I can't find again for the life of me. I have these on me at the moment.http://www.flickr.com/photos/63560350@N06/6943089221/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63560350@N06/6945353483/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63560350@N06/6945352985/And one of him mauling BP, just to be thorough:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63560350@N06/6799241348/
none of those are really beyond cap. the machine gun one is very good, but again, that level is NOT the norm, but the exception, and clinging to it is highballing.
If being beaten up by the Wrecking Crew shortly before is meaningless to you, then I guess I guess that's that.
show me somewhere that it is indicated he was 'slower' because of that battle. he was strong enough to summon the fist again. AND he even tried a surprise sneak attack that cap caught effortlessly. it was plain as day that fist was fast but nothing cap couldn't handle.
Spidey vs Cap in Civil War:Jobbing, plain and simple. What stopped Pete from webbing Cap up from a distance and slinging him around like he has so many of his rogues? Why is Pete just now realizing how good of a fighter Cap is, despite personally having fought him and pointing that out several times before? If you don't see PIS there, again, I guess that's that.
yep, pretty much i guess. cap has CONSISTENTLY fought guys on spidey's level and beyond and NEVER been overwhelmed by speed or strength. if you want to label his entire history (he's fought everyone from namor to hulk, to ironman and even thor h2h) PIS that is YOUR perogative. just acknowledge that you're willfully ignoring his history by decrying 'jobber aura!!!11!' which is pretty demeaning and, tbh, is one of the clearer indications that one is 'losing' a debate. cries of PIS--unless blatantly obvious--RARELY help you in a debate. in this case i could show cap fighting MANY people on or above spidey level. that kind of consistent performance cannot be labelled PIS. sounds like people who get angry when logan fights hulk to a standstill when he has made a CAREER out of doing in bricks.
C'mon, need I explain again why what other characters say in dialogue doesn't count as a feat? Especially since the person who phrased it that way isn't a bullet-timer, so couldn't have seen Cap dodge a bullet after it was fired.
wut? she's an ELITE shield agent who has seen cap fight MANY MANY times and you don't think she can tell when he dodges a bullet? weird....
and despite that, it doesn't change thefact that cap didn't gainsay her and EXPLAINED the ability the ascribed to him. he didn't say he 'anticipates', or 'times' his dodge. he was matter of fact in his answer and said he sees bullets slower. cap doesn't lie, so the implication was clear as day--he can and does dodge bullets.
Winter Solider bullet-dodge: One bullet from a pistol (relatively low speed) with a lot of time to ready himself where Cap could clearly see where Bucky was aiming and when he pulled the trigger... but since that's just me speculating, I totally count that as a valid, low-end bullet-timing feat.
👆
A guy with Danny's high-end feats is still great deal faster than one who best is dodging a single pistol round. And its a good thing that I don't take other character's statements for evidence; if I did, Bucky's surprise would indicate that Cap didn't do that sort of thing often back in the war.
you're single feat isn't proof enough that fist is substantially faster. direct combat against each other and common opponents tell a totally different tale.
you've already admitted that you've learned some stuff, so 👆 for manning up and admitting as such. fist MAY be faster. i took umbrage at the 'tiers of difference'. i think they are peers and cap is more skilled. but i do think it is close in all respects.