Originally posted by carver9
I'm doing what Quan doing, bring up damage fts.The Destroyer is a title...nothing more.
Hulk beat GR by pummeling him into the ground. We don't know how Hulk would have dealt with the real GR since his hellfire couldn't damage Hulk.
I agree, KT would merc sentry.
A carved Uru...not the same.
And Thor's tanked Celestial attacks, crazy Odin, The Dark Gods, etc. And at classic levels. With the Odin Force, he endured blows that would have one shot killed classic Thor and walked through the Destroyer's disintegration beam...the same attack that killed Thor when it was animated by a random ass mortal. And Balder's spirit >>>> a mortal's.
Just like "The Strongest One There Is", amirite?
Hulk dismissing Johnny Blaze =/= Hulk dismissing Zarathos unbound.
Good.
Thor's crushed uru in his hand and has even put Mjolnir back together with his bare hands, no worse for the wear.
Originally posted by carver9
Thor still had some of the OF in him.The Destroyer has been damaged so much that I am not impressed. Didn't.a weakened Hulk fight the Destroyer and ripped it to shreds? I think that did happen. Let me look to make sure.
Who did KT beat down with his fist when he had possession of the OF to make you think he could take out Hulk?
Damaging the Hulk isn't all that hard to do...its KEEPING him damage that is the hard ordeal. Keeping him from healing. That healing factor is insane.
Sentry didn't burn him out. His eyes proved this right after the fight. Wolverine cut KT arm off. WWH grabs KT arm and rip it off...hulk strength>>Adamantium.
WWH wins 7/10
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor's physical prowess is the result of his birth from Odin and Gaea. That had nothing to do with the Odin Force. The Odin Force being removed stopped Thor from using his eyebeams of death, his preferred method of dispatching the heroes sent to stop him. Jurgens stating he still had the Odin Force is likely just meaning that yes, Thor still possessed the energy, but was unable to utilize it thanks to the amulet Strange placed on him.
I think Jurgens was obviously stating that the Odinforce was still helping Thor in that fight - the clear implication of the question is "How could normal Thor have done this?" and Jurgens reply ("It had to be"😉 pretty clearly indicates that, at least at the time of the interview, he didnt think he could. Again though the question of whether this means anything to you personally is an open one.
In any case, said statement does contradict what's shown in the comics if we assume that Thor still had x% of Odin Force left over, which was what allowed him to beat Hulk and Thing. Looking at his classic levels of strength and durability, I have no reason to doubt that Thor could beat the both of them. Thing would have likely been killed early on as he's really no match for Thor on any level, leaving the majority of the fight to be between Hulk and Thor.
While i think Thor is Things physical superior I wouldnt see him as someone Thor could generally easily kill in hand to hand combat. He's not that far below.
Considering Thor was defending his family and kingdom and was pissed beyond belief, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Thor, after hours of extending combat, could finally beat the Hulk.
Well I think Hulks healing factor semingly jobbed in this case at the end of the day its an off-panel fight from an alternate future so one cant be too picky or upset.
In any case, whether he had the Odin Force or not and to what degree is inconsequential to this fight. With the Odin Force, King Thor, even relegated to only melee fighting with Mjolnir, is beyond WWH.
Looking at a more complete picture than the rather Jurgenscentric view here I wouldnt necessarily agree. Going to the other extreme Hulk at WWH levels thunderclapped into unconsciousness a guy who took King Thors best shot and smiled. Thats a pretty ridiculously onesided view if not tempered with the acknowledgement of other continuity...but it happened.
Originally posted by Silent Master
It's also rather dumb, because the question specifically mentions Wolverine, which happened before the OF was removed. Therefore the answer that Thor was still Odin-powered is meaningless.
I think i gave a pretty well reasoned account of why its rather dumb to assume that Jurgens answer was intended to refer only to the Wolverine portion of the fight. Did you read it?
Honestly its fine to just say "I couldnt care less what Jurgens said in an interview, the comic is everything to me" but what Jurgens meant by his words is pretty clear.
Originally posted by Fifthchild
I think I already said that. Several times.
The question Jurgens was asked also included Thor's fight with Wolverine, which happened while Thor still had the Odin-power...which makes his answer worthless.
Originally posted by Fifthchild
I think i gave a pretty well reasoned account of why its rather dumb to assume that Jurgens answer was intended to refer only to the Wolverine portion of the fight. Did you read it?Honestly its fine to just say "I couldnt care less what Jurgens said in an interview, the comic is everything to me" but what Jurgens meant by his words is pretty clear.
The fact that it included the Wolverine fight at all makes his answer worthless for debate purposes....assuming that interviews would even be allowed.
Originally posted by Silent Master
The question Jurgens was asked also included Thor's fight with Wolverine, which happened while Thor still had the Odin-power...which makes his answer worthless.
So you are arguing that Jurgens was clarifying that Thor had the Odinpower in that scene where he says "The Odinpower is beyond all of you" and eye blasts Wolverine....the one before Strange took the Odinpower away? Thats what he was trying to tell u when he said "It was still an Odinpowered Thor". Wow thanks for clearing that up Dan.
Originally posted by Silent MasterIf interviews cant be used as proof, why do you have one under your sig.
I'm arguing that the question specifically included Thor’s fight with Wolverine, A fight that happened before his access to the Odin-power was removed, which makes his answer worthless.Not that it really matters, as 1) The comics trump interviews and 2) Interviews can't be used as proof.
Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm arguing that the question specifically included Thor’s fight with Wolverine, A fight that happened before his access to the Odin-power was removed, which makes his answer worthless.
It references Wolverine as part of the group that attacks Thor. You seem to be arguing that because Thor quite obviously had the Odinpower when he fought Thor that this makes it somehow unclear as to whether Jurgens meant that he still had it when he fought Hulk/Thing whereas i think the simple application of common sense shows that this is the only interpretation that makes any sense.
Not that it really matters, as 1) The comics trump interviews and 2) Interviews can't be used as proof. [/B]
I dont see why this is causing you such grief then.
As for myself i think creator interviews are always at least interesting, especially when there may be some ambiguity. I dont mean to offend any mods or anything but i'm not really that concerned with the rules of the board as to what constitutes "proof" or anything and would rather see an interesting discussion than two guys trying to prove something to each other all day. As i'm sure anyone who has frequented such boards long enough can attest: at the end of the day you cant force someone else to accept a viewpoint they dont want to anyway.