Originally posted by carver9If you want to discuss Superman/Thor/Silver Surfer vs Doomsday, make the thread. Hulk and Doomsday are not interchangeable, and if you're incapable of proving your position when it comes to Hulk, it's not somebody else's burden to prove it for you, by substituting him with Doomsday.
So this same logic applies to Gog War Doomsday and HP Doomsday. If Thor, Surfer, or Superman were to fight smart, use their speed/powers correctly, they could beat him as well?
Originally posted by Philosophía
If you want to discuss Superman/Thor/Silver Surfer vs Doomsday, make the thread. Hulk and Doomsday are not interchangeable, and if you're incapable of proving your position when it comes to Hulk, it's not somebody else's burden to prove it for you, by substituting him with Doomsday.
Your post is associated with all bricks though but it get what you are saying. Bring up the thread and we can discuss it there. I'll look for it.
Originally posted by carver9
What fts? What does MM have that would stop the Hulk? He is outclassed and he will go physical and get one shotted. Hulk isn't just strong, he is strong, fast, durable, and also has energy output of his own. If anyone is outmatched, its Martian Manhunter. One lick, one lick is all that it would take and Martian Manhunter isn't staying intangible the entire match.His Martian vision won't work, his strength is meaningless, his speed means nothing here since he will run into an omni blast and his telepathic powers means nothing as well.
Hulk is out of MM league.
I was just responding to you talking about how other people will pull out strong showings of other characters and put them against the Hulk upgrades.
"J'onn is also capable of absorbing energy projectiles such as beams and other energy waves.
J'onn J'onzz has also demonstrated the ability of generating and manipulating heat or energy beams, waves and blasts, and even absorbing extra mass from the earth to greatly increase his size."
"In the current DC continuity, many of his powers are similar to those of Superman, including superhuman strength close to that of Superman, flight, invulnerability, vortex breath, and "Martian Vision" (a term designating both the ability to see through solid objects and the ability to project beams of energy from his eyes). Superman once said of the Manhunter, "He is the most powerful being on the face of the Earth"."
And for those who doubt his telepathic power...
"The extent of his telepathic abilities is great; several times he has connected his mind to the entire population of Earth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_Manhunter#Powers_.26_Abilities
All J'onn has to do is get inside Hulk's mind. Once he does, it's game over. And all he has to do to get inside Hulk's mind is shape shift into someone Hulk loves.
Originally posted by Odekahn
I was just responding to you talking about how other people will pull out strong showings of other characters and put them against the Hulk upgrades."J'onn is also capable of absorbing energy projectiles such as beams and other energy waves.
J'onn J'onzz has also demonstrated the ability of generating and manipulating heat or energy beams, waves and blasts, and even absorbing extra mass from the earth to greatly increase his size."
"In the current DC continuity, many of his powers are similar to those of Superman, including superhuman strength close to that of Superman, flight, invulnerability, vortex breath, and "Martian Vision" (a term designating both the ability to see through solid objects and the ability to project beams of energy from his eyes). Superman once said of the Manhunter, "He is the most powerful being on the face of the Earth"."
And for those who doubt his telepathic power...
"The extent of his telepathic abilities is great; several times he has connected his mind to the entire population of Earth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_Manhunter#Powers_.26_Abilities
All J'onn has to do is get inside Hulk's mind. Once he does, it's game over. And all he has to do to get inside Hulk's mind is shape shift into someone Hulk loves.
I agree, he does have similar powers to Superman bit that isn't helping him here. Hulk shrugged off blows from beings that has stalemated Thor in strength and overpowered Merged Hulk and Savage Hulk...he wasn't even registering them. Martian Manhunter strength is meaningless, if he even tried to use it he will get hit in the face by an OMNI attack.
Also, mental attacks isn't working against Hulk...already been tried, failed and even backfired on most.
Originally posted by Odekahn
I was just responding to you talking about how other people will pull out strong showings of other characters and put them against the Hulk upgrades."J'onn is also capable of absorbing energy projectiles such as beams and other energy waves.
J'onn J'onzz has also demonstrated the ability of generating and manipulating heat or energy beams, waves and blasts, and even absorbing extra mass from the earth to greatly increase his size."
"In the current DC continuity, many of his powers are similar to those of Superman, including superhuman strength close to that of Superman, flight, invulnerability, vortex breath, and "Martian Vision" (a term designating both the ability to see through solid objects and the ability to project beams of energy from his eyes). Superman once said of the Manhunter, "He is the most powerful being on the face of the Earth"."
And for those who doubt his telepathic power...
"The extent of his telepathic abilities is great; several times he has connected his mind to the entire population of Earth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_Manhunter#Powers_.26_Abilities
All J'onn has to do is get inside Hulk's mind. Once he does, it's game over. And all he has to do to get inside Hulk's mind is shape shift into someone Hulk loves.
Now you have to prove all of these claims as to what effect J'onn would have on the Hulk at this level. You say he can absorb mass and become large right? Well the hulk can destroy a planet with ease, the same planet that J'onn has absorbed. This telepathy that you are speaking of may work on others but the Hulk is special as seen on panel giving Xavier, Emma, and the X-Men a headache from the psychic backlash caused from his anger. How did J'onn do against Teth when he attempted the same thing? Just curious. I know that you can't be suggesting that J'onn is anywhere near the Hulk in terms of strength either, because he isn't.
Originally posted by carver9
I agree, he does have similar powers to Superman bit that isn't helping him here. Hulk shrugged off blows from beings that has stalemated Thor in strength and overpowered Merged Hulk and Savage Hulk...he wasn't even registering them. Martian Manhunter strength is meaningless, if he even tried to use it he will get hit in the face by an OMNI attack.Also, mental attacks isn't working against Hulk...already been tried, failed and even backfired on most.
I'm not suggesting his strength and durability powers to suggest he can overpower Hulk, just that he's not going to be a "greasy spot" on the ground. He's got way too many abilities. And we've already seen other people able to get inside the Hulk's mind. And MM is an insanely powerful telepath. Connecting his mind to the entire earth? Even Professor X couldn't do that without cerebro.
^ I can't remember when Professor X did, but he can.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaYou have certain fights of J'onn's in mind when you say this?
Hulk getting stronger or more durable than before doesn't change the fact that he's still up against opponents who have larger versatility, mobility and are capable of dancing circles around him. You're making the same mistake most of the Hulk supporters do - this isn't a slugfest. This isn't them taking turns at punching eachother, at the same pace. Basically, Hulk wins if we ignore one of the ridiculously high advantages of most of his opponents, at least on the DC side (speed), and they just start taking turns at hitting eachother, relying only on strength, durability and hitting factor. Just because Hulk doesn't have any other advantages doesn't mean the advantage of his opponents are nullified, and they fight only the way it's convenient for Hulk.There is absolutely no logical reason for his opponents not to use their versatility in a non-PIS environment, other than "Hulk can't win otherwise, and I want him to, because he's so powerful!". Yes, Hulk is powerful in the comics because PIS is present. Opponents will fight him on his own terms and get squashed, because he has a status to maintain, and they can't allow him to be humiliated by having him unable to counter and get squashed.
But that doesn't happen here. The characters aren't retarded. Once they percieve Hulk's physical ability - there is no reason they wouldn't want to use their capability to make him look like a statue and not get hit ever again. Who in their right mind would think otherwise? You're literally arguing that they're so dumb, eventough they'd asses Hulk's physical abilities and they have an ability that makes him never be able to touch them again, they don't use it and instead play right into his hand.
Hulk's physical abilities are recognized. But how about ignoring the opponents capabilities and limiting them to what Hulk can handle stops too?
Originally posted by Odekahn
I'm not suggesting his strength and durability powers to suggest he can overpower Hulk, just that he's not going to be a "greasy spot" on the ground. He's got way too many abilities. And we've already seen other people able to get inside the Hulk's mind. And MM is an insanely powerful telepath. Connecting his mind to the entire earth? Even Professor X couldn't do that without cerebro.
😕
Originally posted by Odekahn
I'm not suggesting his strength and durability powers to suggest he can overpower Hulk, just that he's not going to be a "greasy spot" on the ground. He's got way too many abilities. And we've already seen other people able to get inside the Hulk's mind. And MM is an insanely powerful telepath. Connecting his mind to the entire earth? Even Professor X couldn't do that without cerebro.
Xavier and Emma Frost though? Both of them. J'onn failed to do this with a similar personality in Teth Adam, so what makes you think that the same thing would not happen if he went into the Hulk's mind, and find more mental scar tissue, rage, and multiple personalities all mixed in one nutty bag? Yeah exactly, he'd be escorted to the twilight zone, and while he was recovering from the backlash get beat down to a greasy spot on the ground. Again the Hulk is not just your run of the mill brick AKA Mr. Muscle Dude. The Hulk can project vast amounts of energy, Sue Richards had to erect a force field to shield everyone during WW Hulk, where he was actually holding back that amount of power, now HOTM Hulk was something completely different, and since that is the one that he is facing in this thread, he would be leaking like a nuclear reactor on steroids.
Originally posted by lilshogun
That is called bad writing. Well back to the topic. If MM was played right, his powerset would be able to take Hulk out. It's the sum of the Manhunter's powers that make him dangerous. When you add in his molecular control and his telepathy, he is almost impossible to hit and can hit back almost as fast and strong as Superman Forget about the bias writing. He has the package.
Gladiator is more versatile than the Hulk is as well, but look what happened to him when he fought the Hulk. I have to add that he fought a much weaker Hulk than the one being discussed in this thread. So when does the time come that versatility is forced to take a back seat to more power? It's happened many times in comics, and it would happen here as well. WB Hulk is just above J'onn.
Originally posted by Stoic
Gladiator is more versatile than the Hulk is as well, but look what happened to him when he fought the Hulk. I have to add that he fought a much weaker Hulk than the one being discussed in this thread. So when does the time come that versatility is forced to take a back seat to more power? It's happened many times in comics, and it would happen here as well. WB Hulk is just above J'onn.
Gladiator's power also depends on his state of mind, and Gladiator's powers are different than MM.
Originally posted by carver9
That post was terrible...Jonn and Xavier are pretty much equals when it comes to TP and Xavier and Emma both failed at mind attacking WWH. TP isn't doing a thing against Hulk along with Martian other powers.
Was Professor X able to connect with the entire earth without the use of cerebro?
Originally posted by Odekahn
Gladiator's power also depends on his state of mind, and Gladiator's powers are different than MM.
That's fine and all of that good stuff, but how is J'onn going to win this? If he becomes tangible, he gets hit by omni directional gamma bombs. If he crawls into the Hulks head, he gets a psychic backlash and is beaten down while recovering. If he fights toe to toe he would be overcome by a force greater than his. The Hulk of HOTM was above J'onn, and I'm not exactly sure why it is so hard for you to see this.