Thor vs Worldbreaker Hulk (Slugfest)

Originally posted by Newjak
I didn't say Juggeranut fought an intelligent Rhino. I said Hulk lost to an intelligent Rhino.

You do realize Hulk is never really 'calm' considering being in a rage is what makes him transform to begin with. You know the whole you wouldn't like me when I'm angry shtick.

Hulk has fought Wolverine while angry, has fought Abom while angry.

I agree with you and that's my point...he never starts off at a low strength.

What wad your point in bringing up the Rhino and Jugs fight?

Wolverine has fought Thor and Abomination and did good against both. Hulk has also dominated Abomination which resulted in Abomb getting an amp to keep up with Savage.

What was the point of this post?

Originally posted by carver9
I proved that an angry Hulk strength us pretty much on par with Thor, actually greater. Then Thor was overpowered by Bi Beast and admitted that Bi Beast was as strong as Savage Hulk when he got tossed across the room (twice). Thor admitting Savage Hulk is stronger than him didn't only happen once, it happened 2 to 3 Times.

The moral of the story is...Bi Beast and Wendigo has been compared to Savage Hulk who has outright dominated Thor in a physical confrontation (which again led to Thor saying Savage Hulk is stronger than him) which proves that Wendigo and Bi Beast (who overpowered Thor) are high class 100's.

IF that happened, to be honest though carver I don't really trust your interpretations of things.

Originally posted by Newjak
The only part of that entire statement that has any kind of truth or logic to it is if Bi-Beast did over power Thor then that is actually a good indicator of the strength level Bi-Beast is on. Everything else is the same old stupid bad logic you have been using over and over.

IF that happened, to be honest though carver I don't really trust your interpretations of things.

It's not the same thing though since a fresh transformed Hulk beat the hell out of Thor. Your argument would hold some weight if it wasnt a fresh Savage but as soon as he transformed, he dominated Thor which takes away from your entire argument. You are stating that Hulks base strength isn't top tier...if Savage dominated Thor during the beginning of his transformation (which would basically be as close to his base strength as it could get since he didn't have enough time to build up his anger), this means that Hulk is pretty much top tier as soon as he transform (which has been proven numerous of times as well).

If I show you Bi Beast overpowering Thor, will you concede?

Originally posted by TheHulk
So You Agree? Hulk Has No Base?

But no Hulk doesn't need to have a base. The point is he is variable. There isn't a set of defined rules that govern what level he is on at any given time. The only thing we know for sure is the Angrier Hulk gets the stronger he gets.

And the level of opponent he is fighting at the time. For instance if he is fighting Thor and matching him, we know he is on Thor's level at the time. The same for Abom, Namor, Hercules, Thing, and anyother character you want.

Cause of that you can not actually use Hulk to define another character's level. Can you not see the logic behind that idea and why trying to use Hulk as a measurement that way is bad?

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with you and that's my point...he never starts off at a low strength.

What wad your point in bringing up the Rhino and Jugs fight?

Wolverine has fought Thor and Abomination and did good against both. Hulk has also dominated Abomination which resulted in Abomb getting an amp to keep up with Savage.

What was the point of this post?

I could have also used Spider-Man beating him, Silver Surfer one shotting him. That was the point.

Originally posted by carver9
It's not the same thing though since a fresh transformed Hulk beat the hell out of Thor. Your argument would hold some weight if it wasnt a fresh Savage but as soon as he transformed, he dominated Thor which takes away from your entire argument. You are stating that Hulks base strength isn't top tier...if Savage dominated Thor during the beginning of his transformation (which would basically be as close to his base strength as it could get since he didn't have enough time to build up his anger), this means that Hulk is pretty much top tier as soon as he transform (which has been proven numerous of times as well).

If I show you Bi Beast overpowering Thor, will you concede?

He could spend hours fighting someone and still not reach Thor's level if he didn't get angry enough to do it.

Time is irrelevant to his level of power. Like I said there is no defined steps to what level of strength Hulk is at except for anger and using his opponent to gauge that level.

Originally posted by Newjak
If Hulk has a base to speak of it would be whatever his lowest showing is...

But no Hulk doesn't need to have a base. The point is he is variable. There isn't a set of defined rules that govern what level he is on at any given time. The only thing we know for sure is the Angrier Hulk gets the stronger he gets.

And the level of opponent he is fighting at the time. For instance if he is fighting Thor and matching him, we know he is on Thor's level at the time. The same for Abom, Namor, Hercules, Thing, and anyother character you want.

Cause of that you can not actually use Hulk to define another character's level. Can you not see the logic behind that idea and why trying to use Hulk as a measurement that way is bad?

I brought it up because you said Rhino is pretty powerful so I brought him getting beat by Depowered Juggernaut to show he really isn't.

I could have also used Spider-Man beating him, Silver Surfer one shotting him. That was the point.

Depowered Jugs beat Rhino via plot which made your argument pointless.

I could show you Spiderman beating the hell out of Masterson, Mongoose doing good against Thor, Ironman but what's the point when we both know Thor is more powerful than that? Didn't Nova, a class 10 during the time stun Thor.

As for your Surfer comment.

Thor gets stunned by a punch from someone that is around Luke Cage level in strength and then Surfer one shot his a**.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/461/norad35bd.jpg/

What was the point of this when we know Thor is more powerful than this?

I can post Thing koing Surfer but what's the point...Surfer is more powerful than this. You are lowballing to help your lame argument. I don't need to go that route to prove my case.

Originally posted by Newjak
Hulk's strength depends on the level of anger he is at. So he can potentially start of a fight at Thor's level if he was angry enough. He could also start it Abom level.

He could spend hours fighting someone and still not reach Thor's level if he didn't get angry enough to do it.

Time is irrelevant to his level of power. Like I said there is no defined steps to what level of strength Hulk is at except for anger and using his opponent to gauge that level.

Which leads to you helping me more than anything since Savage was pissed when he faced both Wendigo and Bi Beast.

Originally posted by carver9
Depowered Jugs beat Rhino via plot which made your argument pointless.

I could show you Spiderman beating the hell out of Masterson, Mongoose doing good against Thor, Ironman but what's the point when we both know Thor is more powerful than that? Didn't Nova, a class 10 during the time stun Thor.

As for your Surfer comment.

Thor gets stunned by a punch from someone that is around Luke Cage level in strength and then Surfer one shot his a**.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/461/norad35bd.jpg/

What was the point of this when we know Thor is more powerful than this?

I can post Thing koing Surfer but what's the point...Surfer is more powerful than this. You are lowballing to help your lame argument. I don't need to go that route to prove my case.

They don't have dynamic strength at least not at that level. So we know they are more powerful and they were either A) holding back or B) it was bad writing.

Hulk is that variable in strength because he was always written that way.

Do you not see the difference here...

Originally posted by carver9
Which leads to you helping me more than anything since Savage was pissed when he faced both Wendigo and Bi Beast.

HOw pissed was he. Was he pissed enough to be at Thor level?

Was he pissed off enough to be at planet levels?

Was he only pissed enough to be at Rhino levels?

Tell he carver in your scan where it stated he was pissed off enough to be on the level of Thor/Hercules.

See doesn't help your argument at all, cause Hulk's pissed/anger levels can change. And just because he is angry doesn't mean he was angry enough to be at a certain level.

Are Hulk fans seriously arguing that the statement 'the angrier the Hulk gets, the stronger he is?' is incorrect???

Originally posted by Newjak
Actually it doesn't

HOw pissed was he. Was he pissed enough to be at Thor level?

Was he pissed off enough to be at planet levels?

Was he only pissed enough to be at Rhino levels?

Tell he carver in your scan where it stated he was pissed off enough to be on the level of Thor/Hercules.

See doesn't help your argument at all, cause Hulk's pissed/anger levels can change. And just because he is angry doesn't mean he was angry enough to be at a certain level.

What you are failing to realize is that Hulk starts off at a high level. I have asked you numerous of times to contradict this statement and you haven't shown me anything. Rhino defeating Hulk via fighting more intelligently than Hulk was which doesnt disprove what I am saying.

So now its PIS when it happens to Thor but Hulk can't have low showings.?

Showing a lil bias if you ask me.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Are Hulk fans seriously arguing that the statement 'the angrier the Hulk gets, the stronger he is?' is incorrect???

No, I'm actually arguing the opposite. Newjack is saying that even though Hulk was pissed when he fought Wendigo, Hulk wasn't fighting at Herald strength, he was still fighting around Colossus level of strength. I then post scans of a fresh Hulk...not the one that fought Wendigo for a prolong amount of time but a fresh Savage Hulk running through Thor, then he changed his entire argument saying that Hulk can start off at Herald level (which I agree with). He is basically saying that out of all the 5 fights Hulk had against Wendigo, he wasn't operating at the strength he was fighting Thor even though Hulk was just as angry in both fights.

Originally posted by carver9
What you are failing to realize is that Hulk starts off at a high level. I have asked you numerous of times to contradict this statement and you haven't shown me anything. Rhino defeating Hulk via fighting more intelligently than Hulk was doeant disprove what I am saying.

So now its PIS when it happens to Thor but Hulk can't have low showings.?

Showing a lil bias if you ask me.

Which is why he can have good fights against Abom, Thing, Rhino, I'm sure there are plenty of other lower level beings we could talk about that Hulk has had good fights with.

And it's not a bias against Hulk when those low showings are explained away because they were written directly into the character's powerset.

Hulk's strength is variable. That's the way it was written. It's not a low showing then it's just Hulk not at one of his higher levels because he isn't angry enough to be at those levels.

Originally posted by Newjak
There was no concession it was just your post about Wendigo was stupid then as it was from the beginning.

And yes you can't completely overlook battles but there are things called PIS/CIS. Unless you want to admit Spider-man beating Firelord physically is possible, or that Black Panther can arm bar lock the Surfer... do you really want to say that.

Fact: There are a number of reasons why certain characters do well particularly when heroes are fighting each other. Namely they hold back against each other.

As for Juggernaut, his punches measured something like 6.0 - 8.0 on the ricter scale. He has thrown an object out of Earth into space. He managed to stop WWH when everyone else was getting destroyed. And just so you don't think I'm trying to just use Hulk, he has also collapsed entire valleys, over powered Colossus easily, and jugger powered Colossus pushed Kuurth all the way back to where he started from. There's his battle with the Stone Cutter that was rocking everything. There's also numerous statements that says he is on Thor's level strength wise.

So no I'm not just relying on feats from his fight vs Thor. Juggernaut has all 3 items going for him he has fights, feats, and statements. 😉

And truth is you still can't prove Wendigo was anywhere close to Thor level strength or even Namor level at that.

Carver Hulk always starts of pissed you're right and yet people like Abom and Rhino can give him prolonged fights to.

You are buffoon. You have no iota of debating skill and you dont even try to mask it. Your implicit concession has been accepted. You can go "wah wah but it was stupid" all you want in order to hide your ineptitude but its not fooling anybody buddy. I see you have also refused to prove the exponential gap between Namor and colossus. Concession accepted on that as well

Trying to arbitrarily characterize all of hercules and Namors battles as PIS is just nonsensical. Really its supposedly PIS because you dont like it and yet it has been shown on multiple occasions that in direct confrontations the gap between them is nowhere near what you are making it out to be. Your fanboy postulations do not trump on panel occurrences. Black panthers hammer lock on Surfer and Firelord getting knocked out by spiderman are examples of PIS because they are occurrences that explicitly contradict consistent on panel history. Namor not being shown as exponentially weaker than Hercules has been consistent in all their fights and is thus NOT a one time outlier occurrence. On average Hercules is not portrayed as millions of times stronger than Namor and thus there is no explicit contradiction if this is reflected in their fights.

If you can show me that Hercules was simply holding back in order not to emphasize the exponential strength gap between he and Namor then show it. Heck you probably havent even read any of their battles and yet you are so sure Hercules was holding back because it supports you egregious conclusion. You have already assumed your conclusion without proper consideration of the material in question and thats fallacy.

Do you really think that those paltry feats you mentioned from juggernaut match Thors best? having punches measured 6-8 on the richter scale? Throwing objects into spaceand collpasing valleys? Are you freaking kidding me? Juggernaut didnt manage to stop WWH, he was literally slowed to a crawl by WWH, who quite frankly has far more claim to the whole "holding back" suggestion than Hercules does against Namor, and then got quickly Bfred. Those are NOT close to Thors high feats or fights His battle with Stone cutter happened during 8th day and was not the norm at all so thats is thus a completely invalid reference (not to mention it only created an earthquake in the area they were standing). Stop trying to romanticize your self serving logic in favor of juggernaut just because you like the character. Fact is your reasoning fails woefully in regards to him just like it does regarding a bunch of other characters.

Burden of proof (you know what that is right?) is on you NOT me to show that Hulk was weaker than he consistently was shown to be otherwise you go nothing. Referencing low feats will get you nowhere. Savage Hulks strength level wasnt as mysterious as you are trying to present it. Its clear your knowledge of the character comes from forum myths as opposed to actual study of the character.

Originally posted by carver9
No, I'm actually arguing the opposite. Newjack is saying that even though Hulk was pissed when he fought Wendigo, Hulk wasn't fighting at Herald strength, he was still fighting around Colossus level of strength. I then post scans of a fresh Hulk...not the one that fought Wendigo for a prolong amount of time but a fresh Savage Hulk running through Thor, then he changed his entire argument saying that Hulk can start off at Herald level (which I agree with). He is basically saying that out of all the 5 fights Hulk had against Wendigo, he wasn't operating at the strength he was fighting Thor even though Hulk was just as angry in both fights.

It doesn't change ro effect my point. That being that it depends on Hulk's anger. Hulk could spend hours fighting someone and he wouldn't be close to his higher level.

Just like he can come right out of the gate and be at his strongest.

Originally posted by Naija boy
You are buffoon. You have no iota of debating skill and you dont even try to mask it. Your implicit concession has been accepted. You can go "wah wah but it was stupid" all you want in order to hide your ineptitude but its not fooling anybody buddy. I see you have also refused to prove the exponential gap between Namor and colossus. Concession accepted on that as well

Trying to arbitrarily characterize all of hercules and Namors battles as PIS is just nonsensical. Really its supposedly PIS because you dont like it and yet it has been shown on multiple occasions that in direct confrontations the gap between them is nowhere near what you are making it out to be. Your fanboy postulations do not trump on panel occurrences. Black panthers hammer lock on Surfer and Firelord getting knocked out by spiderman are examples of PIS because they are occurrences that explicitly contradict consistent on panel history. Namor not being shown as exponentially weaker than Hercules has been consistent in all their fights and is thus NOT a one time outlier occurrence. On average Hercules is not portrayed as millions of times stronger than Namor and thus there is no explicit contradiction if this is reflected in their fights.

If you can show me that Hercules was simply holding back in order not to emphasize the exponential strength gap between he and Namor then show it. Heck you probably havent even read any of their battles and yet you are so sure Hercules was holding back because it supports you egregious conclusion. You have already assumed your conclusion without proper consideration of the material in question and thats fallacy.

Do you really think that those paltry feats you mentioned from juggernaut match Thors best? having punches measured 6-8 on the richter scale? Throwing objects into spaceand collpasing valleys? Are you freaking kidding me? Juggernaut didnt manage to stop WWH, he was literally slowed to a crawl by WWH, who quite frankly has far more claim to the whole "holding back" suggestion than Hercules does against Namor, and then got quickly Bfred. Those are NOT close to Thors high feats or fights His battle with Stone cutter happened during 8th day and was not the norm at all so thats is thus a completely invalid reference (not to mention it only created an earthquake in the area they were standing). Stop trying to romanticize your self serving logic in favor of juggernaut just because you like the character. Fact is your reasoning fails woefully in regards to him just like it does regarding a bunch of other characters.

Burden of proof (you know what that is right?) is on you NOT me to show that Hulk was weaker than he consistently was shown to be otherwise you go nothing. Referencing low feats will get you nowhere. Savage Hulks strength level wasnt as mysterious as you are trying to present it. Its clear your knowledge of the character comes from forum myths as opposed to actual study of the character.

You me Battlezone. We'll see how inept I am 😛

Originally posted by Newjak
Hulk doesn't always start off at a high level though...

Which is why he can have good fights against Abom, Thing, Rhino, I'm sure there are plenty of other lower level beings we could talk about that Hulk has had good fights with.

And it's not a bias against Hulk when those low showings are explained away because they were written directly into the character's powerset.

Hulk's strength is variable. That's the way it was written. It's not a low showing then it's just Hulk not at one of his higher levels because he isn't angry enough to be at those levels.

Prove that he doeant start off at high levels.

Every fight that Thing and Hulk has had...Hulk was alway too much for him. Abomination had to receive an amp to be on Savage Hulks level and still got dominated. He got dominated so bad at one point by Savage that Savage had him on the ground crying (literally).

So what about Thor low showings (you haven't even mentioned any of Hulks low showings honestly).

Savage Hulk AVERAGE PORTRAYAL have him in or above Thor level of strength...his AVERAGE PORTRAYAL, not his loses or stalemates or people doing decent against him.

Now again, show me someone overpowering Savage Hulk to make you presume he starts off at Colossus level.

Originally posted by carver9
Prove that he doeant start off at high levels.

Every fight that Thing and Hulk has had...Hulk was alway too much for him. Abomination had to receive an amp to be on Savage Hulks level and still got dominated. He got dominated so bad at one point by Savage that Savage had him on the ground crying (literally).

So what about Thor low showings (you haven't even mentioned any of Hulks low showings honestly).

Savage Hulk AVERAGE PORTRAYAL have him in or above Thor level of strength...his AVERAGE PORTRAYAL, not his loses or stalemates or people doing decent against him.

Now again, show me someone overpowering Savage Hulk to make you presume he starts off at Colossus level.

And when did I say he starts off at Colossus level everytime.

He could for the Bulk of his appearances appear at Namor level just fine. It still doesn't change anything I've said or the points I've made.

Originally posted by Newjak
What losing to and Intelligent Rhino wasn't good enough... I mean Thor would have one-shotted the Rhino.

And when did I say he starts off at Colossus level everytime.

He could for the Bulk of his appearances appear at Namor level just fine. It still doesn't change anything I've said or the points I've made.

Just like Thor one shotted Ulik right? Or him one shotting Tutinax...someone that doesn't have the fts to be on par physically with Rhino, let alone a weaker version (whatever the hell this means) of Savage Hulk.

😕

I want you to prove he started off at Colossus level "anytime". Show me him failing to lift something or something that makes you suggest he started off anytime through his history at Colossus level.

The proof is on you though. You need to show us that he consistently start off at low levels because I have been posting scans showing the opposite.

For some strange reason, you like to recite Hulk low showings but you disregards Thor low showings as PIS. Thor AND Hulk both have low showings just like any other character does.

Originally posted by carver9
Just like Thor one shotted Ulik right? Or him one shotting Tutinax...someone that doesn't have the fts to be on par physically with Rhino, let alone a weaker version (whatever the hell this means) of Savage Hulk.

😕

I want you to prove he started off at Colossus level "anytime". Show me him failing to lift something or something that makes you suggest he started off anytime through his history at Colossus level.

The proof is on you though. You need to show us that he consistently start off at low levels because I have been posting scans showing the opposite.

For some strange reason, you like to recite Hulk low showings but you disregards Thor low showings as PIS. Thor AND Hulk both have low showings just like any other character does.