Originally posted by Newjak
Not as much as you do obviously, and considering how many statements in comics like that turn out to be false anyways I think it's not a bad thing to take them with a grain of salt.
Gotcha...so what about Herc and Thor statement of almost knocking a planet off coarse via arm wrestling? Do you accept that? If so, why? Also, what fts does Savage have that WWH should have replicated during the World at War arc that would put him above Savage.?
Firstly attributing the feat to gamma energy is just nonsensical h1a8 garbage as that is not at all what is shown on panel. As usual however he probably hasnt read the comics and even if he has he pays no mind to it so their is no need to address him any further. Now moving on to the Savage hulk variability discussion, Indeed savage hulk was a character with variable strength, however, he did have a general strength level which he hovered around frequently in his fights while enraged (id say from about Namorish to Thor level ). Not exactly determinable but save his low feats which every character has, definitely good enough to get some sort of range as he was usually portrayed as a top tier guy strength wise while enraged. Trying to cast doubt on the strength levels of the characters by backhandedly implying Hulk might have been superweak when he fought these guys is ridiculous and little more than wishful thinking. Regardless, aside from savage hulks strength, we have the strength levels of his opponents to better guage the strength difference.
For instance, almost all the times Hulk encountered a Wendigo, it was able to hold its own against Hulk while he had assistance i.e Wendigo vs Hulk and Sasquatch, Wendigo vs Professor Hulk and Genis vell, Wendigo vs Hulk and Wolverine (at this point iirc, hulk was sufficiently enraged that Wolverine had lots of trouble cutting him which shows he was operating at some of his stronger levels) etc. Hence we can definitely make a good determination of the strength levels of the Wendigos that Hulk has faced and even the hulk himself in these encounters; i.e Class 100 for sure as in most cases able to hold their own for a time against an angry Savage Hulk + Assistance (Sasquatch is himself no pushover). Then we it him able to hold his own against Prof hulk who has a more definite strength level, and then we have it being able to hold its own against a Savage Hulk that even wolverine had trouble cutting. Hence being able to annihilate a character shown to be that formidable during encounters, with the mere shockwave of a pair of mid air punches hundreds of feat away indicates a humongous jump in strength that cannot be downplayed by all this straw grasping that people are trying to pass off for arguments.
Originally posted by Naija boyI noticed you changed it to be between Namor and Thor level from whoever you originally had before 😂
Firstly attributing the feat to gamma energy is just nonsensical h1a8 garbage as that is not at all what is shown on panel. As usual however he probably hasnt read the comics and even if he has he pays no mind to it so their is no need to address him any further. Now moving on to the Savage hulk variability discussion, Indeed savage hulk was a character with variable strength, however, he did have a general strength level which he hovered around frequently in his fights while enraged (id say between Namor and Thor level ). Not exactly determinable but save his low feats which every character has, he was usually portrayed as a top tier guy strength wise while enraged. Trying to cast doubt on the strength levels of the characters by backhandedly implying Hulk might have been superweak when he fought these guys is ridiculoous and little more than wishful thinking. Regardless, aside from savage hulks strength, we have the strength levels of his opponents to better guage the strength difference.For instance, almost all the times Hulk encountered a Wendigo, it was able to hold its own against Hulk while he had assistance i.e Wendigo vs Hulk and Sasquatch, Wendigo vs Professor Hulk and Genis vell, Wendigo vs Hulk and Wolverine (at this point iirc, hulk was sufficiently enraged that Wolverine had lots of trouble cutting him which shows he was operating at some of his stronger levels) etc. Hence we can definitely make a good determination of the strength levels of the Wendigos that Hulk has faced and even the hulk himself in these encounters; i.e Class 100 for sure as in most cases able to hold their own for a time against an angry Savage Hulk + Assistance (Sasquatch is himself no pushover). Then we it him able to hold his own against Prof hulk who has a more definite strength level, and then we have it being able to hold its own against a Savage Hulk that even wolverine had trouble cutting. Hence being able to annihilate a character shown to be that formidable during encounters, with the mere shockwave of a pair of mid air punches hundreds of feat away indicates a humongous jump in strength that cannot be downplayed by all this straw grasping that people are trying to pass off for arguments.
But once again there is still a sizable difference in strength between Namor and Thor even.
As for Wendigo I'm sure KM will come in and correct me if I'm wrong or not but Wendigos are themselves characters that are known to frequently change power levels because its a curse and the host character can change power levels of the Wendigo shown.
I mean was it not too long ago that Las Vegas got over run by a horde of them and Grey Hulk along with other heroes were able to take them down in groups pretty consistently?
So you can not even boast that if the Wendigo's you are talking about were that powerful, that one in the scan was.
Nor is there any evidence to support that the Wendigo's in those moments were that powerful.
Sasquatch without Tanaraq amp isn't weak but he's not that strong. A depowered Juggernaut who was stated at being around or less than Colossus' strength level was able to take it to him. I know Sas does have better feats as well, but the point is he is not actually top top tier strength either.
Wolverine having trouble cutting Hulk is kind of ok, but I think we've seen instances of that as well where that's kind of always been the case. Technically Wolverine had an easier time cutting WWH during their encounter I guess as well. So I don't think that really proves your point about hulk supposedly being on one of his super levels during that particular Hulk/Wolverine Wendigo encounter.
Originally posted by Newjak
I noticed you changed it to be between Namor and Thor level from whoever you originally had before 😂But once again there is still a sizable difference in strength between Namor and Thor even.
As for Wendigo I'm sure KM will come in and correct me if I'm wrong or not but Wendigos are themselves characters that are known to frequently change power levels because its a curse and the host character can change power levels of the Wendigo shown.
I mean was it not too long ago that Las Vegas got over run by a horde of them and Grey Hulk along with other heroes were able to take them down in groups pretty consistently?
When the power is shared, yes that is true. KM, would you even call those group of Wendigos "true" Wendigos since a lot more than just the curse happened with them?
What about Armageddon, someone that overpowered Merged Hulk?
What about Bi Beast, someone that overpowered Thor twice during their fight and Thor stating on panel that Bi Beast is just as strong as Savage?
All of them were high class 100.
Originally posted by carver9an enraged wwh hits slightly harder than thors glancing blows? Cool dude.
A Rulk not using his absorption powers. That was a full powered Rulk...the same one (actualky, a more powerful one) that fought Savage 3 times and also killed him at one point.What about a scan stating Hulk hits harder than Thor?
I changed it from Abomination to Namor level because, Namor is a better gauge of strength being a hero. Nothing funny about it..There exists a gap between Thor and Namor level of strength but really based on average/consistent portrayal it is nothing astronomical.
Furthermore i know that Wendigos frequently change in strength which is why i specifically mentioned the encounters between Hulk and Wendigo, and the strength level he has been at in his fights against Hulk. Since it was Hulks enemies that were revived, it would only make sense if the Wendigo hulk fought was one of the ones he had encountered before not just any random Wendigo. As such, other instances of Wendigo's lower showings are irrelevant.
The point isnt that Sasquatch has top tier strength individually as i would put him at slightly above colossus level myself, the point is that Wendigo was able to hold his own against both he and Hulk in that fight which is something that speaks volumes about the level of strength he was operating at during that fight.
Furthermore, wolverine having trouble cutting Hulk has not "kinda always been" the case. We know that Hulks skin/durability/HF grows parrallel to his anger just like his strength and a character like wolverine noting at that point his skin was hard to cut definitely shows that Hulk was operating at a pretty good level of power. Heck even if it has "kinda always" been the case it would still prove that Hulk was not operating at some particularly weak levels like you are trying to backhandedly suggest. I dont need to show that Hulk was operating at super duper levels. All i need to establish is that he was operating at at least Savage hulks fairly consistent level of power while enraged...neither particularly weaker or stronger than he regularly was in that state.
You on the other hand are trying to downplay the impressives of WBH by suggesting some weaker version of Savage Hulk was at play in his previous encounters with these opponents and so you have to give us some evidence for it. So far and unsuprisingly, you have got nothing.
Originally posted by carver9
What does it mean?
It just means that Hulk was smart enough not to kill anyone. Superman has instances where he still takes down villains by crunching the numbers so civilians won't be killed.
Originally posted by carver9
It's different though. If I punch you in the face and Newjack punch you in the face...you should be able to tell who hits harder.
You're only saying that because it's Hulk.
Let's continue with Savage and WWH fts.
Savage Hulk is getting his a** whipped by the Mindless Ones.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DormammusChaoticFlame.jpg
WWH is running through them like they are flees.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8319253/Incredible_Hulks_633_012-13.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8319255/Incredible_Hulks_633_014.jpg.html
Originally posted by -Pr-
It just means that Hulk was smart enough not to kill anyone. Superman has instances where he still takes down villains by crunching the numbers so civilians won't be killed.You're only saying that because it's Hulk.
Good point (I disagree a bit but whatever).
Naah, I'm not saying this because its Hulk...its pretty much clear as day. If someone said Sundip Supes punch harder than normal Supes, I wouldn't argue against it. Kind of like I didn't argue against Supes saying the male Cheetah punch as hard as Diana and Captain Marvel.
Originally posted by Naija boyIt was funny cause I've already stated Hercules has one shotted Abom so has Thor. So you changed it, whether it was on purpose or not doesn't matter, from someone that really weakened your stance to someone who made it slightly better.
I changed it from Abomination to Namor level because, Namor is a better gauge of strength being a hero. Nothing funny about it..There exists a gap between Thor and Namor level of strength but really based on average/consistent portrayal it is nothing astronomical.Furthermore i know that Wendigos frequently change in strength which is why i specifically mentioned the encounters between Hulk and Wendigo, and the strength level he has been at in his fights against Hulk. Since it was Hulks enemies that were revived, it would only make sense if the Wendigo hulk fought was one of the ones he had encountered before not just any random group of Wendigos. Such other instances of Wendigo's lower showings are thus irrelevant.
The point isnt that Sasquatch has top tier strength individually as i would put him at slightly above colossus level myself, the point is that Wendigo was able to hold his own against both he and Hulk in that fight which is something that speaks volumes about the level of strength he was operating at while fighting hulk.
A none holding back Thor is still in a whole other league then Namor, that's just fact.
And I understood your point about wendigo but it doesn't actually prove it, because once again you're still using Hulk as the benchmark. Hulk could have been at his Abom level, his Namor level, his Thor level.
The whole point was that Hulk isn't a good benchmark, you trying to show what level Wendigo is on doesn't work with that example.
Why because you already admitted you believe Sas is at Colossus level who is low end class 100. So if Hulk was at one of his high end levels then Sas is pretty much a none factor in that fight and it wouldn't matter if he was offering his assistance.
So it would imo lean more to Hulk being at a lower level if he needed Sas's help with the fight.
Which once again actually kind of weakens your stance trying to prove Wendigo is playing in some top tier strength level.
Originally posted by carver9They were low class 100 beings. They lost their amp in the dark dimension since we see they are Hulk's size now vs. being giants before.
He doesn't amp fast enough or close enough for him to be at those level. Pr, you have GOT to be playing...please tell me you don't believe the same. Savage Hulk has never demonstrated the strength to kill high class 100 just by punching at another character.
Let's see what conclusion we came up with involving WWH and Savage Hulk.
WWH did better against Wendigo than Savage ever did, even with help.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/7815928/Incredible_Hulks_631_006.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/7815932/Incredible_Hulks_631_011.jpg.html
They both fought the Mindless ones and WWH did better than Savage against them as well (Savage Hulk was losing).
WWH defeated Thing in two panels whereas Thing has had extended fights against Savage Hulk.
Herc stated WWH could have killed him and the entire avenger crew if he wasnt holding back.
WWH proved that he was stronger than the combine might of Thing, an amped Skaar, Ms. Marvel, War Machine, etc...
WWH proved that he was far stronger than Bi Beast, someone that defeated Savage through physical might.
Colossus has given Savage fits as well and Hulk took him out in two panels.
Rulk defeated Savage Hulk 3 Times, killed him at one point and WWH took Rulk out just by clapping his hands.
I know I'm missing some stuff but it doesn't matter since this is a true indication of WWH being over Savage Hulk.
Originally posted by Newjak
It was funny cause I've already stated Hercules has one shotted Abom so has Thor. So you changed it, whether it was on purpose or not doesn't matter, from someone that really weakened your stance to someone who made it slightly better.A none holding back Thor is still in a whole other league then Namor, that's just fact.
And I understood your point about wendigo but it doesn't actually prove it, because once again you're still using Hulk as the benchmark. Hulk could have been at his Abom level, his Namor level, his Thor level.
The whole point was that Hulk isn't a good benchmark, you trying to show what level Wendigo is on doesn't work with that example.
Why because you already admitted you believe Sas is at Colossus level who is low end class 100. So if Hulk was at one of his high end levels then Sas is pretty much a none factor in that fight and it wouldn't matter if he was offering his assistance.
So it would imo lean more to Hulk being at a lower level if he needed Sas's help with the fight.
Which once again actually kind of weakens your stance trying to prove Wendigo is playing in some top tier strength level.
Show the scan of hercules oneshotting abomination. Furthermore even so it is irrelevant because the abomination while being twice the base strength of hulk was quickly surpassed when Savage Hulk got enraged hence another reason he was invalid when determing a range of strength for an enraged savage hulk.
A non-holding back Thor is not even close to being 10x as strong as Namor (who has been shown to hold his own with even the likes of hercules) and so while he is considerably above him, in terms of the magnitude of strength differentials we are discussing here it holds little weight. Frankly, Even if we granted that he was ten times stronger than Namor, he would absolutely never be able to annihilate Namor as an aftereffect of a punch of his.
Moreover its not that Hulk was operating at his high end levels, its that he was operating at his regular consistent levels and the subsequent implications regarding the strength level of who he was fighting.
The point about Wendigo is very valid because even if we grant that hulk was operating at a Namor level of strength, Adding in sasquatch indicates Wendigo holding his own against at least a Namor (Note the importance of at least) level, and collossus level foe for a time. The issue isnt to prove that Wendigo is as strong as Thor, but to get a good idea of strength levels he was operating at when fighting Hulk. Holding is own against both a Namor level (granting that hulk was operating at such a level) and collossus level opponenent simultaneously will do.
I am using the bottom of enraged Savage hulks range (i.e Namor level) because even taking the bottom part of that range into account, Hulk jumping from that to being able to wipe them out as an aftereffect of punches indicates an exponential increase in strength which even if we took extreme liberties with direct comparisons with Thors strength (say we accepted that Thor was 10x stronger than Hulk at this level), would enormously eclipse Thors strength level.
Originally posted by carver9
Good point (I disagree a bit but whatever).Naah, I'm not saying this because its Hulk...its pretty much clear as day. If someone said Sundip Supes punch harder than normal Supes, I wouldn't argue against it. Kind of like I didn't argue against Supes saying the male Cheetah punch as hard as Diana and Captain Marvel.
Which is the problem; character statements aren't always 100% fact.
