Agent Smith and Neo vs Thanos and Bor...

Originally posted by Digi
I'd love to see that kind of precision manipulation with no prep and during a fight with people who are attacking you with the power of a matter (reality?)-warping god. Thanos or Bor may have a feat to this affect that convinces me...comics are crazy. But it seems a tall order even for them.

I believe, for example, that Thanos could hack or control the Matrix if given prep and outside access to his tech. I DON'T think he could from within the Matrix and no prior knowledge of his environment, opponents, or technology.

Let's be realistic here.

No one is going to be superior to The One in the Matrix.

To Bor and Thanos the Matrix would be perceived as actual reality, just as it would to any other uninitiated being that's plugged in and doesn't awaken. Thor and Bor would likely perform just as they would normally in the MU, the only difference being that since their actions/power output would all occur within this virtual reality it would fall within Neo and Smith's ability to manipulate, i.e., Neo could raise his hand and stop an energy beam Thanos directed at him, and he'd see that Thanos was going to attack before Thanos actually acted simply by reading the changes in his code.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Let's be realistic here.

No one is going to be superior to The One in the Matrix.

Lets say that neo and smith kill & bor before they realize that they are in the matrix. Do you guys really think that thanos will really die? I think he will wake up like it was a bad Dream and then dismantle that sh!t.

What if Thanos used telepathy to read Neo and Smith's minds to figure out they're in the matrix and what's going on? Can Bor use TP? Odin (his son) can so maybe Bor can too.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
To Bor and Thanos the Matrix would be perceived as actual reality, just as it would to any other uninitiated being that's plugged in and doesn't awaken. Thor and Bor would likely perform just as they would normally in the MU, the only difference being that since their actions/power output would all occur within this virtual reality it would fall within Neo and Smith's ability to manipulate, i.e., Neo could raise his hand and stop an energy beam Thanos directed at him, and he'd see that Thanos was going to attack before Thanos actually acted simply by reading the changes in his code.

Wow, I didn't think of that until you wrote it. But that makes alot of sense.

Question to the Matrix junkies, at the end of the series were all Agent smiths as strong as Neo's peak power by the end? They just fought one on one because Smith wanted I guess savor his victory, right?

Originally posted by Diesldude
Lets say that neo and smith kill & bor before they realize that they are in the matrix. Do you guys really think that thanos will really die? I think he will wake up like it was a bad Dream and then dismantle that sh!t.

I don't think he would die. I think he would will himself back, kinda like neo when he got shot up in the 1st one. Also I wouldn't say it be entirely impossible to eventually for thanos to figure out he is in a VR world. And then he might be able to will himself out of the matrix. If you watch some that extra stuff made from the movies or maybe it was in a comic or something but there was one kid who was suppose to be Neo's superior. He was able to simple will himself out of the matrix and wakeup. Not sure how that worked but if anyone can do it thanos should be able to if he tried hard enough.

If thanos wasen't around to tell Bor whats up I think bor would just keep on fighting and eventually "die."

At the end of Revelations when Neo and Smith fought Smith had already assimilated The Oracle and as such was pretty much on equal footing with Neo. There's a little caveat there, though. In the last film after Smith overwrites The Oracle the other Smith's that are present step back in fear at the newly created "Oracle Smith", so I'm not necessarily sure each and every Smith had the exact same power level at that point, but from what was shown in Reloaded, each person he overwrites becomes him, albeit with the memories of the person he overwrote assimilated into the collective consciousness. I think it was Oracle Smith that fought Neo in the end though (iirc, he started quoting the Oracle and then realized that it was a trap set by her and his defeat was inevitable, but he followed through and overwrote Neo anyway, which passed Neo's code to all of the other people Smith had assimilated and cause a cascade disipation of "The One" code). So there's evidence that each Smith duplicate was a copy, and also evidence that there was a "Smith Prime", if you will, that was Neo's equal.

Anyway, if Thanos realizes he's in a virtual battlefield and wakes up in the real world that would be self bfr and constitute a loss/forfeiture. His only recourse for the actual battle, given the OP stips, is to fight within the Matrix reality, and in the Matrix Neo and Smith have a significant homefield advantage given the nature of there powers in that reality.

Also, regarding telepathy on Thanos's part, within the virtual reality it would still just be a code variant in Thanos's being to be manipulated and blocked/overwritten by Neo/Smith.

Also, regarding the Kid, he wasn't Neo's superior as far as ability, he was just able to come to the realization that the Matrix was a virtual reality and awaken without needing to be extracted by Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus. Neo did, however, make contact with the kid and extraction was going to occur. His self realization simply made it unnecessary. It's all shown in the Animatrix.

Delph seems to be handling this in a way I can't match. The Matrix isn't a realm of geekdom where my knowledge could be considered comprehensive.

However, I agree with his assessment.

Just out of curiosity, how do you guys think would Hank Henshaw fare?

Originally posted by Placidity
The Matrix isn't just another mind/dreamworld where anything goes if your "will is strong enough". It is grounded in reality,

I'd like a moment to appreciate the irony in appealing to "reality" in a conversation about a comic book character inside a foreign, fictional virtual world based on the memory of a fictional Earth based on our current Earth.

However, what can be accomplished does have hard limits

Says who? Where in the Matrix canon is it shown that there exists an upper limit and that Neo reaches it? Because this sounds like supposition.

No one can be greater than The One in the Matrix.

Again, sounds like supposition. Obviously the Architect didn't account for someone like Thanos, but the OP says that Thanos is there.

Let's really think about this. If Thanos does not retain his powers because the Matrix isn't programmed that way, how powerful does he get to be? Is he nerfed all the way down to standard human levels? Does he become human altogether? What about his purple skin? No one in the Matrix has purple skin. Does he turn into a white guy?

Because if we're going to arbitrarily change characters whenever they enter the Matrix, then every such fight is going to be "Neo vs. an average dude," and Neo wins by speedblitz.

EDIT: Double Post

Depends on the stipulations. If the fight takes place within the Matrix alone I'd put odds on Neo. While Hank would have his technopathy and operate as he would in the DCU, the caveat there would be he'd have control over the virtual reality machinery constructs within the reality of the Matrix, not the actual real world mainframe/machinery that produces the Matrix. If Hank was 'jacked in', it would be, for all intents and purposes, a technopath versus a reality warper. Just have to get your mind around the fact that inside of the Matrix should be treated as an actual universe with laws of physics. Like, for example, if a thread maker made a match of Mephisto Vs. Phoenix in Mephisto's realm, and you made an argument that Phoenix could just leave the realm, go to the White Hot Room, and destroy Mephisto's Realm from there, that would be considered a rule break/bfr. The Matrix is Neo/Smith's realm. Leaving it or influencing something outside of it would be off limits per forum rules.

And Dream Stuff, the answer to your question is Thanos/Bor would retain there powers as presented in the MU, they would, however, be bound by the rules of the Matrix reality, and within the Matrix Reality, Neo and Smith can manipulate reality to their will. Thanos and Bor would just be code/constructs to be manipulated in the virtual reality, albeit code with abilities most Matrix Constructs don't have. In the realm of the Matrix Neo and Smith should be treated as reality warpers, the reality just happens to be virtual.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
And Dream Stuff, the answer to your question is Thanos/Bor would retain there powers as presented in the MU, they would, however, be bound by the rules of the Matrix reality

That makes more sense.

and within the Matrix Reality, Neo and Smith can manipulate reality to their will. Thanos and Bor would just be code/constructs to be manipulated in the virtual reality, albeit code with abilities most Matrix Constructs don't have. In the realm of the Matrix Neo and Smith should be treated as reality warpers, the reality just happens to be virtual.

OK. Based on feats, Neo and SMith are low level reality-warpers. Their powers primarily is used to amp their own physical attributes, especially speed. They also have telekinetically affected inanimate objects, phased small parts of their bodies, convert other's into clones of themselves, and exhibited both combat and non-combat precog.

As impressive as all that is, that puts them at low-herald level at best. Each a good match for someone like Wonder Woman on neutral territory. None of the power's they ever shown as part of their ability to manipulate the Matrix makes up for the huge difference between then and Thanos.

There is nothing Neo and Smith could do to Thanos whilst in the Matrix. Thanos undertook insane rigorous punishment whilst training himself venturing through the many different planes of reality in his earlier years.

But the fact is his physical body can't die. He will just remain in the Matrix and keep fighting and evolving. The fact that he withstood Moondragon and Cosmos attacks handidly means he can withstand mental assaults on an insane scale.

I know Neo was the perfect equation born in human form. Born to die and try again. But Thanos even if it means BFR even if he is forced out of the Matrix he would simply destroy the physical world's machines surrounding him upon awakening killing the Matrix from the outside.

Haven't read all of the previous posts but couldn't Neo just pull Thanos' heart out for a temp KO win or destroy either of his opponents from within as he did to Agent Smith?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
At the end of Revelations when Neo and Smith fought Smith had already assimilated The Oracle and as such was pretty much on equal footing with Neo. There's a little caveat there, though. In the last film after Smith overwrites The Oracle the other Smith's that are present step back in fear at the newly created "Oracle Smith", so I'm not necessarily sure each and every Smith had the exact same power level at that point, but from what was shown in Reloaded, each person he overwrites becomes him, albeit with the memories of the person he overwrote assimilated into the collective consciousness. I think it was Oracle Smith that fought Neo in the end though (iirc, he started quoting the Oracle and then realized that it was a trap set by her and his defeat was inevitable, but he followed through and overwrote Neo anyway, which passed Neo's code to all of the other people Smith had assimilated and cause a cascade disipation of "The One" code). So there's evidence that each Smith duplicate was a copy, and also evidence that there was a "Smith Prime", if you will, that was Neo's equal.

Anyway, if Thanos realizes he's in a virtual battlefield and wakes up in the real world that would be self bfr and constitute a loss/forfeiture. His only recourse for the actual battle, given the OP stips, is to fight within the Matrix reality, and in the Matrix Neo and Smith have a significant homefield advantage given the nature of there powers in that reality.

Also, regarding telepathy on Thanos's part, within the virtual reality it would still just be a code variant in Thanos's being to be manipulated and blocked/overwritten by Neo/Smith.

Also, regarding the Kid, he wasn't Neo's superior as far as ability, he was just able to come to the realization that the Matrix was a virtual reality and awaken without needing to be extracted by Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus. Neo did, however, make contact with the kid and extraction was going to occur. His self realization simply made it unnecessary. It's all shown in the Animatrix.

I thought not needing assistance made him superior but that may not be exactly true. Would have loved to see how he would perform in the matrix. Also good point about even if thanos did realize what was going on and willed himself out it would count as a BFR.

Think im gonna start calling him "Smith Prime" lol ahh... I enjoy that way too much....

Good post man!

dat smile... Thanos and Bor take off in other direction running for their lives.