DC's Angels Vs Marvel's Cosmics

Originally posted by -Pr-
He's the supreme being when it comes to his own creation. GEB wasn't his creation.

Just because he gave them the power to potentiall overthrow him doesn't mean he couldn't take it away if he wanted to.

Like I said though, none of this is relevant, and we'd just be going back and forth.

Regarding GEB, it's very existence proves Vertigo's "God" isn't Supreme. Think about it.

Regarding ST and the Elemental Congress, the very fact that such power exists in Vertigo "God's" creation is proof that there are things in his own creation that can overthrow him (hence even in his own creation, his supremacy isn't absolute). This was just one example. Who knows what else is out there.

The question here is Michael 😛

The answer is : Chaos King.

Originally posted by zopzop

It is relevant because many posters on Team Vertigo were bringing up hype like "second only to 'God'" like it meant something in a forum fight without feats or fights to back it up. We've already seen that Vertigo's "God" has 'issues'.

Regarding GEB, it's very existence proves Vertigo's "God" isn't Supreme. Think about it.

Regarding ST and the Elemental Congress, the very fact that such power exists in Vertigo "God's" creation is proof that there are things in his own creation that can overthrow him (hence even in his own creation, his supremacy isn't absolute). This was just one example. Who knows what else is out there.

The answer is : Chaos King. [/B]

Even if you want to argue relevancy, God is still as powerful as he's been said to be, isn't he?

Supreme within his own creation; think about it. DC's god is supreme, yet Nekron is outside of his direct control. So what did he do? He created light.

That's a fallacy; you can't assume there's something out there without any sort of proof, and it won't hold weight in a debate.

So how is Chaos King going to kill Michael, especially a Michael so directly influenced by Paradise Lost?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Even if you want to argue relevancy, God is still as powerful as he's been said to be, isn't he?

Supreme within his own creation; thnk about it. DC's god is supreme, yet Nekron is outside of his direct control. So what did he do? He created light.

That's a fallacy; you can't assume there's something out there without any sort of proof, and it won't hold weight in a debate.

So how is Chaos King going to kill Michael, especially a Michael so directly influenced by Paradise Lost?

No he isn't because : a) there is another being out there that is his peer and b) there exists power in his own creation that can overthrow him.

CK had 98% of the muliverse devoured and was annihilating pantheons and their realms like nothing. Even Super God Herc, that restored 98% of the multiverse was no match for him.

He'll devour Michael, Gabriel, Lucifer just the same.

Originally posted by zopzop
No he isn't because : a) there is another being out there that is his peer and b) there exists power in his own creation that can overthrow him.

CK had 98% of the muliverse devoured and was annihilating pantheons and their realms like nothing. Even Super God Herc, that restored 98% of the multiverse was no match for him.

He'll devour Michael, Gabriel, Lucifer just the same.

Having a peer outside of his creation doesn't make him less powerful within it. Yes, because he created them, and can destroy them if he so chooses.

The multiverse isn't the same as creation, though. Not entirely. You think he could devour Michael? How?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Having a peer outside of his creation doesn't make him less powerful within it. Yes, because he created them, and can destroy them if he so chooses.

Having a peer means he's not the Supreme Being. So claims like Michael is "second only to God" are meaningless unless they are backed up by something on panel.

Like I pointed out, Vertigo's "God" isn't even fully supreme in his own creation because there existed a combination of powers that could have overthrown him!

The multiverse isn't the same as creation, though. Not entirely. You think he could devour Michael? How?

Depends on what you mean by "creation". It could be an entire omniverse, a multiverse, or "only" a universe.

CK could devour Michael. He was devouring the multiverse and everything in it. He had 98.7% of it before he was BFRed into a reality that existed outside the multiverse where he was finally happy and stopped his rampage. He was never beaten because they couldn't beat him (this was stated by Cho).

There's only one creator!

And his only power is love!

Originally posted by zopzop

Having a peer means he's not the Supreme Being. So claims like Michael is "second only to God" are meaningless unless they are backed up by something on panel.

Like I pointed out, Vertigo's "God" isn't even fully supreme in his own creation because there existed a combination of powers that could have overthrown him!

Depends on what you mean by "creation". It could be an entire omniverse, a multiverse, or "only" a universe.

CK could devour Michael. He was devouring the multiverse and everything in it. He had 98.7% of it before he was BFRed into a reality that existed outside the multiverse where he was finally happy and stopped his rampage. He was never beaten because they couldn't beat him (this was stated by Cho). [/B]

He's supreme within his own creation, which is what i was saying all along.

powers he created. creating something with the power to destroy you doesn't make you any weaker. the fact that he could make something that powerful only serves to make him look better imo.

creation is creation; it's a pretty common definition in comics, i thought.

How could he devour Michael? Wait- He was beaten by BFR?

Originally posted by -Pr-
He's supreme within his own creation, which is what i was saying all along.

powers he created. creating something with the power to destroy you doesn't make you any weaker. the fact that he could make something that powerful only serves to make him look better imo.

Logic fail 😱

creation is creation; it's a pretty common definition in comics, i thought.

How could he devour Michael? Wait- He was beaten by BFR?

I'm just saying writers throw around the word "creation" and it means different things depending on the writer.

He could devour Michael like he was devouring 98.7% of the multiverse and everything in it.

He was pushed into the Continuum Universe (that existed outside the multiverse) and finally found peace in the void he created. Fight over. Cho even stated they couldn't beat him so this was the only option.

Originally posted by zopzop

Logic fail 😱

I'm just saying writers throw around the word "creation" and it means different things depending on the writer.

He could devour Michael like he was devouring 98.7% of the multiverse and everything in it.

He was pushed into the Continuum Universe (that existed outside the multiverse) and finally found peace in the void he created. Fight over. Cho even stated they couldn't beat him so this was the only option. [/B]

How is my logic faulty?

Creation is generally everything god created.

So he was trapped in another universe outside the multiverse? Yet is supposed to be able to defeat a being that exists outside of the multiverse in general?

if he's supreme within his own creation, is there any other creation besides his? If so, he's not the all powerful being, he didn't make / create everything. there obviously is something outside of his creation for this fight, if there are beings from another continuity as the adversaries.

and imo, what I got from CK's defeat is that he got bfr'd into his own continuity. effectively his own Marvel or DC, because that's the only thing big enough to contain..."nothing" and shut him up. so he got bfr'd into something that "god" could manipulate all over again to create another universe.

nothing is a big concept. if there is to literally be nothing left, that means mikaboshi can absorb the angels.

Originally posted by -Pr-
How is my logic faulty?

How can an omnipotent create something more powerful than itself?

Creation is generally everything god created.

Ok. I just wanted to be sure what definition we were using.

So he was trapped in another universe outside the multiverse? Yet is supposed to be able to defeat a being that exists outside of the multiverse in general?

Not trapped. He wanted to be there. Once inside he was at peace and stayed there. Then Super God Herc (who was no match for CK) burnt out his power restoring/recreating the 98.7% of the multiverse that was destroyed.

Originally posted by zopzop

How can an omnipotent create something more powerful than itself?

[/b]

Ok. I just wanted to be sure what definition we were using.

Not trapped. He wanted to be there. Once inside he was at peace and stayed there. Then Super God Herc (who was no match for CK) burnt out his power restoring/recreating the 98.7% of the multiverse that was destroyed. [/B]

Nobody said he created anything more powerful than himself.

They put him there though, didn't they?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Nobody said he created anything more powerful than himself.

They put him there though, didn't they?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Nobody said he created anything more powerful than himself.

They put him there though, didn't they?

👆

Originally posted by zopzop

By definition, if ST + Elemental Congress could have overthrown Vertigo's "God" then yes he did. Because there existed power in his creation that had the potential to unseat him.

They pushed him in, he could have left at any time. But he decided to stay in the Void, which is what he wanted all along. [/B]

I don't agree with that, tbh.

So they sent him to his happy place, and that was basically it?

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't agree with that, tbh.

So they sent him to his happy place, and that was basically it?

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/ChaosKingcontent.jpg?t=1303265656

They couldn't win, so they gave him what he wanted. Thanks to Igniz for the excellent CK respect thread.

Michael would kill Chaos King. I doubt CK could effect him.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Michael would kill Chaos King. I doubt CK could effect him.

How do you kill the personification of the void before creation? We've never seen CK dead, but we've seen Michael's corpse. 😛

Originally posted by zopzop
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/ChaosKingcontent.jpg?t=1303265656

They couldn't win, so they gave him what he wanted. Thanks to Igniz for the excellent CK respect thread.

...That's it?

Originally posted by zopzop
How do you kill the personification of the void before creation? We've never seen CK dead, but we've seen Michael's corpse. 😛

They said the same thing about Nekron. 😛

Originally posted by -Pr-
...That's it?

Simply terrible