Minato vs Itachi

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
facepalm2

He owned A. Bee and Minato were left in a stalemate, the resolution of which we never saw. This occurred over 17 years before current events. A & B would have gotten a fair bit stronger since then.

That shit aside, Bee stomped a Sasuke that was nowhere near as powerful as he was when he fought a near-blind, holding back, on-his-deathbed Itachi.
He was still in the midst of recovering from the thrashing Itachi gave him, and he had lost Orochimaru's abilities as well as the abilities the Cursed Seal gave him, which were massive amps. All he got in return was a weak-ass genjutsu that would have owned Bee had it not been for his complete mastery over the Hachibi.

If you want me to come up with ridiculous logic, I can simply point to how Itachi briefly clashed with Bee & Naruto, and neither of them could even touch him, proving that he is every bit as fast as they are. When Nagato easily owned Naruto & Bee, Itachi proceeded to save their asses, and was the reason they were able to win.

😐

ABC logic is weak in Naruto-verse in most cases because there is a Rock-Paper-Scissors type system that Kishi employs.

Yeah, I saw Cogito using it as a response to one of Quanchi's typical posts, and I liked the gif. 😛

It fit here pretty well.

Well said. 👆

And yes it does. 😎

Originally posted by Damborgson
🤨

lets look past the flawed ABC logic, and um....the rest of the nonsense.

You mean be illogical to make a point about how much you like Itachi, right?

Originally posted by Damborgson
A nearly blind and Holding back Itachi who purposely extended the fight to get rid of Sasuke's curse mark and had no intention winning lost to Sasuke.

No, Itachi was not nearly blind. He could see just fine. He did not purposefully extend the fight. He used amaterasu right at Sasuke.

Originally posted by Damborgson
The Same B who was getting raped by the Amaterasu lol? In 8 tails for btw?

No, B used it as a ruse to pretend to get captured so he could escape because he was tired of his military life.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Younger less powerful versions...

No difference seen in power. B could create partial manifestations ultra fast. If anything, he has better speed feats in the flash back than he does, now.

Originally posted by Damborgson
That was quite the self pwn actually.

If you mean your poor attempt at a rebuttal, I agree. 🙂

Originally posted by Damborgson
I think this sums it up pretty well.

It doesn't. He is about to get some pwn, as well. I have plenty to go around.

Line up.

Originally posted by ichigo12
Even if it was the younger versions Minato pwned both of them fast while B alone pwned Taka completely.

Oh boy. Here is some decent logic. 🙂 👆

Let's be real here.

Minato wins.

Itachi has some big techs and a more varied move-set, but Minato is specialised enough that he can take out Itachi without coming into much harm himself.

Itachi's only relevant jutsu are huge, chakra sapping ones, that won't hit Minato in all likelihood.

Minato 8/10.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
facepalm2

He owned A. Bee and Minato were left in a stalemate, the resolution of which we never saw. This occurred over 17 years before current events. A & B would have gotten a fair bit stronger since then.

No, he owned A and B at the same time. Minato only stopped. B was hardly in a position to be owning anyone...Minato had planned to stop the charade.

A is an old man and B is aging. B has his fastest speed feat in the flashback.

Even if you pretend Minato was Stalemated by fighting B and A at the same time...you still admit that Minato is definitely superior to both of them.

Also, A compared his punch from back then to his punch against Naruto. Seems his speed hasn't improved.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That shit aside, Bee stomped a Sasuke that was nowhere near as powerful as he was when he fought a near-blind, holding back, on-his-deathbed Itachi.

This is false. Sasuke Stalemated Itachi. Itachi's best feats, up to that point, came from that fight. Itachi did have the upper hand, however.

Itachi was not "nearly blind", either. If you want to claim he was nearly blind, you need the commentary to back that up.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He was still in the midst of recovering from the thrashing Itachi gave him, and he had lost Orochimaru's abilities as well as the abilities the Cursed Seal gave him, which were massive amps. All he got in return was a weak-ass genjutsu that would have owned Bee had it not been for his complete mastery over the Hachibi.

No, he wasn't recovering. He was healed. He got healed during the middle of his fight, too...twice.

Sasuke also got two new techs for his fight: amaterasu and tsukyomi. So any excuses that Sasuke was some how magically weaker are plain wrong.

An ultra powered up form of Sasuke got pwned like no other, against B...twice. There is no excuse for this.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
If you want me to come up with ridiculous logic, I can simply point to how Itachi briefly clashed with Bee & Naruto, and neither of them could even touch him, proving that he is every bit as fast as they are. When Nagato easily owned Naruto & Bee, Itachi proceeded to save their asses, and was the reason they were able to win.

Nagato was called, by Naruto, as being even deadlier in that version he was in. Nagato also healed his ET body....which is very simply PIS.

Itachi also was not every bit as fast as B and Naruto. And that version of Itachi would be healthy. 🙂

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
😐

ABC logic is weak in Naruto-verse in most cases because there is a Rock-Paper-Scissors type system that Kishi employs.

ABC logic works awesome in this case but the Itachi fanboys cannot stand it. 🙂

Itachi does not have the speed to contend with the precision, variety, and power of Minato.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That shit aside, Bee stomped a Sasuke that was nowhere near as powerful as he was when he fought a near-blind, holding back, on-his-deathbed Itachi.

as of now: all sasuke really gained was susano'o to take on bee. tsukyomi and amatarasu won't cut it cause of the hachibi and sasuke's speed, fighting skill, and lightning affinity are at least negated if not surpassed by bee himself.

sasuke's susano'o has the arrows which are his only real hope imo, but then again he might be trading attacks since hachibi can use bijuu-bomb, but then again he has version 2 which deals the same damage but keeps his original silhouette and speed. samahada might be a factor also.

sasuke can't hang with bee today imo, well until we get to see what ems provides.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, he owned A and B at the same time. Minato only stopped. B was hardly in a position to be owning anyone...Minato had planned to stop the charade.

A is an old man and B is aging. B has his fastest speed feat in the flashback.

Even if you pretend Minato was Stalemated by fighting B and A at the same time...you still admit that Minato is definitely superior to both of them.

Also, A compared his punch from back then to his punch against Naruto. Seems his speed hasn't improved.

Wrong.

A is 40-50. Younger than Jiraiya or Hiruzen or Danzou or Onoki.

Stalemated by Bee who saw through Minato's tactic, not both A and Bee.
Superior to A, yes. Superior to young Bee. No idea. Prove otherwise.

Prove he was comparing it to the punch from his first fight against Minato, and not one of his later fights.
Based on how much chakra he was pouring into his armor, his punch against Naruto was faster than the one in the flashback.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is false. Sasuke Stalemated Itachi. Itachi's best feats, up to that point, came from that fight. Itachi did have the upper hand, however.

Itachi was not "nearly blind", either. If you want to claim he was nearly blind, you need the commentary to back that up.

Wrong.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-406-2/naruto/chapter-401.html
http://www.mangareader.net/93-406-3/naruto/chapter-401.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-394-9/naruto/chapter-389.html

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, he wasn't recovering. He was healed. He got healed during the middle of his fight, too...twice.

Wrong.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-420-12/naruto/chapter-415.html

Originally posted by dadudemon
Sasuke also got two new techs for his fight: amaterasu and tsukyomi. So any excuses that Sasuke was some how magically weaker are plain wrong.

Wrong.

Sasuke also got one new tech for his fight which was negated. He unlocked the second tech after Taka got owned and was on the verge of being killed, and the fight ended after that. So any excuses that Sasuke was some how magically stronger are plain wrong.

Originally posted by dadudemon
An ultra powered up form of Sasuke got pwned like no other, against B...twice. There is not excuse for this.

Wrong.

An ultra weakened form of Sasuke got pwned like no other against Bee...twice. There is not excuse for this.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nagato was called, by Naruto, as being even deadlier in that version he was in. Nagato also healed his ET body....which is very simply PIS.

Itachi also was not every bit as fast as B and Naruto. And that version of Itachi would be healthy. 🙂

Irrelevant as neither Bee nor Naruto did any damage to Nagato and could not hope to touch him. Nagato still owned those two far more easily than Minato could ever wet dream of doing so.

Wrong. He was every bit as fast as Bee and Naruto.

Originally posted by dadudemon
ABC logic works awesome in this case the the Itachi fanboys cannot stand it. 🙂

Itachi does not have the speed to contend with the precision, variety, and power of Minato.

ABC logic does not works awesome in this case the the Minato fanbois cannot stand it. 🙂

Itachi does have the means to contend with the precision, variety, and power of Minato.

Not saying Itachi would win, since I do think Minato wins here, for now. Itachi makes him work for his victory though.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
sasuke was more powerful after itachi 😐

as of now: all sasuke really gained was susano'o to take on bee. tsukyomi and amatarasu won't cut it cause of the hachibi and sasuke's speed, fighting skill, and lightning affinity are at least negated if not surpassed by bee himself.

sasuke's susano'o has the arrows which are his only real hope imo, but then again he might be trading attacks since hachibi can use bijuu-bomb, but then again he has version 2 which deals the same damage but keeps his original silhouette and speed. samahada might be a factor also.

sasuke can't hang with bee today imo, well until we get to see what ems provides.

Sasuke before fighting Itachi had all of Orochimaru's techs, including his enhanced regen, and the Cursed Seal amp. After he fought Itachi he lost all of that, and gained a weak-ass genjutsu instead. You'd have to be a retard or a troll to think that the Sasuke that fought Bee, who had not yet fully recovered from his fight with Itachi, was much stronger than the Sasuke that fought Itachi. 😐
Not until the Danzou fight was MS Sasuke much stronger than Hebi Sasuke.

Taijutsu wise, Bee would win, as shown on panel.
Tsukuyomi and other Genjutsu would be negated, as shown on panel.
Amaterasu would pwn the Hachibi, as shown on panel.
Bee has no way of getting past Susano'o unless he uses Bijuu Mode, which would be owned by Amaterasu.
Samehada might work though.

If Samehada is capable of getting past Susano'o, then Bee would win. If it cannot, Sasuke would win IMO.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You mean be illogical to make a point about how much you like Itachi, right?

No, Itachi was not nearly blind. He could see just fine. He did not purposefully extend the fight. He used amaterasu right at Sasuke.

No, B used it as a ruse to pretend to get captured so he could escape because he was tired of his military life.

No difference seen in power. B could create partial manifestations ultra fast. If anything, he has better speed feats in the flash back than he does, now.

If you mean your poor attempt at a rebuttal, I agree. 🙂

It doesn't. He is about to get some pwn, as well. I have plenty to go around.

Line up.

My like of Itachi has nothing to do with your flawed ABC logic. Which is true despite you trying to steer away from what I said. I'm not claiming he's above 6 paths or Madara or something. But he's superior to Minato.

Yes he was. He went totally blind from one Tsukuyomi, one Amaterasu usage and activating Susanoo. Even before the actual fight started his vision of Sasuke was incredibly diminished.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v42/c386/3.html

See?

And yes he did extend the fight. From you're responses it seems like you hardly payed attention to it. Or the talk Tobi had with Sasuke later. Itachi extended the fight with Sasuke in order to exhausst him and remove Orochimaru from his body.

After Bee was hit with Amaterasu is when he decided to slip out. That doesnt change the fact that when Bee got hit, he retreated instead of continuing his assault on taka. Unless you think his plan was "I hope that sharingan kid uses those weird eyes of his to create some jutsu where I'm forced to hid inside the tentacles of Hachibi and pretend to attack the girl so the Sharingan kid slices the tentacle off and I can escape in it as they take the tentacle doppelganger I leave behind. That'd be awesome yo."- Bee

In the Narutoverse, powers comes almost always with age. (not old age of course) Name one case of a character that did not improve with it. Arguing against it is silly really.

Lol? Thats cute but you gotta step your game up before you can say stuff like that. 😎

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

^ I did say that Minato would win this.

But yes, Itachi is definitely > Minato. awesome

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wrong.

A is 40-50. Younger than Jiraiya or Hiruzen or Danzou or Onoki.

You did not correct me. You proved me right.

40-50 is not prime, anymore. That's waning. What I said. You're wrong. (I would put in estahuh, right here, but I think I ran out of space)

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Stalemated by Bee who saw through Minato's tactic, not both A and Bee.
Superior to A, yes. Superior to young Bee. No idea. Prove otherwise.

No, he stopped, he did not stalemate with B. It is made to look like a stalemate but it is only due to Minato calling it quits.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Prove he was comparing it to the punch from his first fight against Minato, and not one of his later fights.

No. You know exactly what I'm talking about. What do you think about that? 🙂

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Based on how much chakra he was pouring into his armor, his punch against Naruto was faster than the one in the flashback.

Wrong: based on A's very words, you have sick pwnage.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wrong.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-406-2/naruto/chapter-401.html
http://www.mangareader.net/93-406-3/naruto/chapter-401.html

Spoiler:
My goal was for you to try and bring this up as a trump card... 🙂

Sasuke himself says Itachi tried to kill him multiple times. It does not matter if the overall goal was to draw forth Oro. Had Sasuke messed up, he would have died multiple times.

Additionally, the difference between an Itachi holding back and an Itachi going all out is the version of Itachi that is fighting Kabuto now. And thus, the trap your fell into. 🙂

Lastly, Itachi always had it in the plans to stop or even kill Sasuke if Sasuke turned against the village BEFORE he fought Sasuke:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v58/c550/11.html

Game. Set. Match. 313

I guess you shouldn't rely on the lies of Tobi to set up your case, now should you? 313

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
http://www.mangareader.net/93-394-9/naruto/chapter-389.html

This was a very dishonest attempt on your part. Not sure why you would try this:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v42/c389/10.html

It's the residual effects of Tsukyomi that were already wearing off by the very next page.

Let's not try to pull something like this again. 🙂

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wrong.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-420-12/naruto/chapter-415.html

I will concede this...however, you're committing a strawman.

There's a difference between what I said and Juugo stating that Itachi's wounds against Sasuke not healing: they won't heal. It is not something he can heal and this is what juugo is referring to. Scars? Permanent damage?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wrong.

Sasuke also got one new tech for his fight which was negated. He unlocked the second tech after Taka got owned and was on the verge of being killed, and the fight ended after that. So any excuses that Sasuke was some how magically stronger are plain wrong.

Wrong, he used two new ultra-powerful techs during his fight with B that he did not have before. You're trying to move that bar just to be right.

Deal with the fact that Sasuke had two new techs to bring to the fight and stop pretending Sasuke was weaker than he was.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
[B]Wrong.

An ultra weakened form of Sasuke got pwned like no other against Bee...twice. There is not excuse for this.

Wrong: the strongest Sasuke has ever been (up to that point) was seen in this fight against B. Not only was Sasuke stronger in this fight than he was against Itachi, he got two healings to continue. Additionally, Sasuke used Amaterasu in a way Itachi was never seen using so in a way, he progressed further than Itachi by this point.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Irrelevant as neither Bee nor Naruto did any damage to Nagato and could not hope to touch him. Nagato still owned those two far more easily than Minato could ever wet dream of doing so.

Here's B touching Nagato:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v58/c550/16.html

Additionally, every time they went to attack, speed from Nagato had nothing to do with it: he moved very little and did not have to react very much. The only thing Nagato did was react and move just a bit to catch both of them.

Here's Naruto's commentary on Nagato's level of mastery being much higher than before:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v58/c551/9.html

Basically, Naruto and B are still much faster, physically, but Nagato does not have to move from his spot when they attack him.

Contrast this with Minato who is definitely not as dumb as Naruto.

Wrong. He was every bit as fast as Bee and Naruto.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
ABC logic does not works awesome in this case the the Minato fanbois cannot stand it. 🙂

ABC works wonderfully in this case and Itachi fanboys cannot stand it.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Itachi does have the means to contend with the precision, variety, and power of Minato.

Itachi does not have the means to contend with Minato's precision, power, and variety of Minato.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Not saying Itachi would win, since I do think Minato wins here, for now. Itachi makes him work for his victory though.

Minato makes an effort, but he is not pushed very hard.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Sasuke before fighting Itachi had all of Orochimaru's techs, including his enhanced regen, and the Cursed Seal amp. After he fought Itachi he lost all of that, and gained a weak-ass genjutsu instead. You'd have to be a retard or a troll to think that the Sasuke that fought Bee, who had not yet fully recovered from his fight with Itachi, was much stronger than the Sasuke that fought Itachi. 😐
Not until the Danzou fight was MS Sasuke much stronger than Hebi Sasuke.

No, Sasuke did not have all of Oro's techs. That's an extreme exaggeration. He lost his ability to use white snake healing, snake specific summons, and his cursed seal.

He gained the second or third most powerful genjutsu and gained an unstoppable offensive power (the only way to prevent it from being a one hit kill is if you dodge it which requires Naruto KCM, A Amped mode, or Minato levels of speed).

You have to be a retard of a troll to think Sasuke came out of his fight with Itachi as being "weaker" than his old state.

You are also claiming that Sasuke could recover from what seems like permanenet wounds from Itachi.

As far as your last comment about Sasuke being much stronger by the time he fights Danzo, I would agree. However, the addition of only those two MS techniques, imo, made him stronger than he was before when he fought Itachi. I personally think the cursed seal held him back...and Itachi seemed to think so, as well. lol

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
If Samehada is capable of getting past Susano'o, then Bee would win. If it cannot, Sasuke would win IMO.

Well, really, if the fight started out with both knowing what they know now, B would just speed blitz Sasuke and one hit kill him. Sasuke would be best served putting up his Susaon'o immediately, imo.

From there, B can just play a war of attrition as he has much more chakra than Sasuke. B is fast enough to dodge amaterasu like A did, imo. I am willing to budge on that position but B seems to be in the top 5 when it comes to speed.

Has B's age ever been stated?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Has B's age ever been stated?

No, but he appeared to be a man 17 years ago. He was 17-22 back then, imo.

B is about at his prime, if not a bit towards waning.

I would have guessed late teens myself in the flashback, so yeah, your estimate sounds about right.

Originally posted by dadudemon

bruce lee > chuck norris

the stats dont lie

neither does video:

YouTube video

oh BTW, checkmate

Originally posted by Damborgson
My like of Itachi has nothing to do with your flawed ABC logic.

It has everything to do with your inability to see the flaw in your logic and the completeness of my ABC logic.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Which is true despite you trying to steer away from what I said. I'm not claiming he's above 6 paths or Madara or something. But he's superior to Minato.

No, it's not true. Itachi is below Minato.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Yes he was. He went totally blind from one Tsukuyomi, one Amaterasu usage and activating Susanoo. Even before the actual fight started his vision of Sasuke was incredibly diminished.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v42/c386/3.html

See?

No, you have proved my point, not yours. That's temporary. And it was also not "totally blind" as even when he was recovering for using Tsukyomi, he was not totally blind.

Originally posted by Damborgson
And yes he did extend the fight. From you're responses it seems like you hardly payed attention to it. Or the talk Tobi had with Sasuke later. Itachi extended the fight with Sasuke in order to exhausst him and remove Orochimaru from his body.

No he didn't extend the fight. From your assessment, you're blind to what actually too place. Itachi attacked with his best techs towards the very beginning (minus the sealing sword): Tsukyomi and amaterasu. This is hardly "trying to drag the fight out".

Already addressed the rest of what you talked about.

Originally posted by Damborgson
After Bee was hit with Amaterasu is when he decided to slip out. That doesnt change the fact that when Bee got hit, he retreated instead of continuing his assault on taka. Unless you think his plan was "I hope that sharingan kid uses those weird eyes of his to create some jutsu where I'm forced to hid inside the tentacles of Hachibi and pretend to attack the girl so the Sharingan kid slices the tentacle off and I can escape in it as they take the tentacle doppelganger I leave behind. That'd be awesome yo."- Bee

Yes, that was pretty much hist plan. His entire plan was to use Team Hawk as a distraction so he could escape his virtual bondage. He went as far as to create a clone, escape in the cut off section, and sit at the bottom of the lake until they were gone. A even recognized what B had done afterwards.

Originally posted by Damborgson
In the Narutoverse, powers comes almost always with age. (not old age of course) Name one case of a character that did not improve with it. Arguing against it is silly really.

In the Narutoverse, powers always wane with age because there is less speed and chakra to draw from.

There is a much better case to be made that an older Jiraiya has to go to level 2 amp to equal his old self at a level 1 amp. He considered those the same.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Lol? Thats cute but you gotta step your game up before you can say stuff like that. 😎

lol, that's also cute. You think you're worthy to even talk down to me.

You've got thousands of posts and hundreds of arguments to go through before a pup like you can even contemplate talking down to me and being considered legit.

🙂

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
^ I did say that Minato would win this.

But yes, Itachi is definitely > Minato. awesome

Just saw this post. You sunuva. 😠 😠 😠