Originally posted by dadudemon
It has everything to do with your inability to see the flaw in your logic and the completeness of my ABC logic.No, it's not true. Itachi is below Minato.
No, you have proved my point, not yours. That's temporary. And it was also not "totally blind" as even when he was recovering for using Tsukyomi, he was not totally blind.
No he didn't extend the fight. From your assessment, you're blind to what actually too place. Itachi attacked with his best techs towards the very beginning (minus the sealing sword): Tsukyomi and amaterasu. This is hardly "trying to drag the fight out".
Already addressed the rest of what you talked about.
Yes, that was pretty much hist plan. His entire plan was to use Team Hawk as a distraction so he could escape his virtual bondage. He went as far as to create a clone, escape in the cut off section, and sit at the bottom of the lake until they were gone. A even recognized what B had done afterwards.
In the Narutoverse, powers always wane with age because there is less speed and chakra to draw from.
There is a much better case to be made that an older Jiraiya has to go to level 2 amp to equal his old self at a level 1 amp. He considered those the same.
lol, that's also cute. You think you're worthy to even talk down to me.
You've got thousands of posts and hundreds of arguments to go through before a pup like you can even contemplate talking down to me and being considered legit.
🙂
😂 😐 I sincerely hope you're kidding. ABC Logic is flawed in general. Even more so in the way you are using it.
In your wet dreams. 😉
His vision was diminished. Even before the fight started. You're arguing against on panel evidence. 😐 Not usually a good idea.
And he went totally blind after he used that final susanoo against sasuke. I'm not talking about the tsukuyomi backlash.
Are you trying to say that Itachi was going all out in an attempt to kill Sasuke? Even though he planned the whole situation in order to remove Sasuke of his curse mark and have him be the hero who killed Itachi? 😐
More like tried to and failed to address.
My God.
Feel free to prove that. was teen Kakashi > Current Kakashi? (Sharingan excluded) No. When reaching prime, character gain power. When they go past it it becomes a negative effect. This is common sense.
😂 Take you're over inflated ego to someone who gives a damn. I posted the smiley to let you know that I was just having some fun. If you're going to get your panties in a bunch about it I won't kid around with you anymore. But acting all high and mighty (and being wrong at the same time) isn't exactly intimidating me or whatever you're going for. 😉
edit: Wait were you just putting on a show? If so sorry for sounding harsh or dickish. If not, see above.
Originally posted by Damborgson
😂 😐 I sincerely hope you're kidding. ABC Logic is flawed in general. Even more so in the way you are using it.
ABC logic is not flawed in general and it is even more powerful in the way I am using.
Originally posted by Damborgson
In your wet dreams. 😉
I don't have wet dreams: I hide the hotdog in the bun. I actually do not remember the last time I had a wet dream.
But, if you must contend this way: nuh uhhhh!
Originally posted by Damborgson
His vision was diminished. Even before the fight started. You're arguing against on panel evidence. 😐 Not usually a good idea.
His vision was not diminished: it worked just fine until he used tsukyomi and he temporarily got blurred vision. You're arguing against on panel evidence. Not a good idea. Also, taking dumps in your pants while in the middle of a lecture is not a good idea.
Originally posted by Damborgson
And he went totally blind after he used that final susanoo against sasuke. I'm not talking about the tsukuyomi backlash.
Prove it. Because he seemed to walk straight towards Sasuke. He even reaches out and touches Sasuke's forehead without missing (a person who has been blind for years may miss doing something like this...much less a person that has just lost all of their vision). Even the anime does not indicate in anyway that Itachi had lost his vision. I will concede this point if you have some sort of commentary from Kishimoto that indicates Itachi was completely blind at this point.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Are you trying to say that Itachi was going all out in an attempt to kill Sasuke? Even though he planned the whole situation in order to remove Sasuke of his curse mark and have him be the hero who killed Itachi? 😐
I already addressed this point. Parroting another poster, while flattering to the original poster, is not the best way to discuss things. 🙂
Originally posted by Damborgson
More like tried to and failed to address.
Good one. So basically "nuh uhhhhh!". Here: more like addressed and destroyed.derpy dooooo!
Originally posted by Damborgson
My God.
Nuh uhhhh herpy derp!
Originally posted by Damborgson
Feel free to prove that. was teen Kakashi > Current Kakashi? (Sharingan excluded) No. When reaching prime, character gain power. When they go past it it becomes a negative effect. This is common sense.
It's cool and all that you are now parroting me, but this is delving into "just sad" territory. If you want to pretend, in the face of other statements I have made in this very thread, that my statement meant people become weaker as they age no matter their age, cool. Just don't expect me to take your posts seriously after this last reply of mine. You added nothing to the discussion and your replies consisted of already addressed points, "nuh uh" statements, and chest thumping. I posted on the internet like that when I was 14...but I didn't really.
Originally posted by Damborgson
😂 Take you're over inflated ego to someone who gives a damn. I posted the smiley to let you know that I was just having some fun. If you're going to get your panties in a bunch about it I won't kid around with you anymore. But acting all high and mighty (and being wrong at the same time) isn't exactly intimidating me or whatever you're going for. 😉edit: Wait were you just putting on a show? If so sorry for sounding harsh or dickish. If not, see above.
You would probably have to know me better to know for sure...but it was quite obvious it was jest. Despite that, my ego is still quite huge. estahuh
:laugh;
Originally posted by dadudemon
ABC logic is not flawed in general and it is even more powerful in the way I am using.I don't have wet dreams: I hide the hotdog in the bun. I actually do not remember the last time I had a wet dream.
But, if you must contend this way: nuh uhhhh!
His vision was not diminished: it worked just fine until he used tsukyomi and he temporarily got blurred vision. You're arguing against on panel evidence. Not a good idea. Also, taking dumps in your pants while in the middle of a lecture is not a good idea.
Prove it. Because he seemed to walk straight towards Sasuke. He even reaches out and touches Sasuke's forehead without missing (a person who has been blind for years may miss doing something like this...much less a person that has just lost all of their vision). Even the anime does not indicate in anyway that Itachi had lost his vision. I will concede this point if you have some sort of commentary from Kishimoto that indicates Itachi was completely blind at this point.
I already addressed this point. Parroting another poster, while flattering to the original poster, is not the best way to discuss things. 🙂
Good one. So basically "nuh uhhhhh!". Here: more like addressed and destroyed.derpy dooooo!
Nuh uhhhh herpy derp!
It's cool and all that you are now parroting me, but this is delving into "just sad" territory. If you want to pretend, in the face of other statements I have made in this very thread, that my statement meant people become weaker as they age no matter their age, cool. Just don't expect me to take your posts seriously after this last reply of mine. You added nothing to the discussion and your replies consisted of already addressed points, "nuh uh" statements, and chest thumping. I posted on the internet like that when I was 14...but I didn't really.
You would probably have to know me better to know for sure...but it was quite obvious it was jest. Despite that, my ego is still quite huge. estahuh
:laugh;
Yes it is. This is supposed to be basic debating Knowledge. 😬
k.
Well thats blatant trolling. Do you usually see people all static like and blurry? If so thats not normal its a serious problem.
Lol k. Glad you tested that theory out. I personally never planned on it but at least now I know.
The anime is non canon so why would that matter?
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v43/c391/16.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v25/c223/10.html
Please tell me the differences you see in those eyes. I see a pair of healthy eyes and a pair of blind eyes.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v43/c392/7.html
^ Here he says "I know this feeling. Orochimaru's Hydra technique." Their was a gian multi headed serpent infront of him and he was going by feelings. I'm sure his eyesight was fine.
Trolling
Trolling
(lol you mad) Trolling
Dude....you've failed to prove ANYTHING. Like literally anything on here. This argument was over when you had to resort to trolling (for fun or not) and emphasizing "I'm a veteran Manga debater. You sound like a little kid. I'm the adult here." 😂
Sharing a view with someone isn't parroting. Trying to spin it into that doesnt work. ❌
What more do I have to add when you've been proved wrong? Just keep pushing the point? You just repeat flawed and wrong arguments. So I mess around and respond to what I'm given. I'm not going to sit here and lecture further someone who closes their eyes shakes their head and stomps their foot. 😉 Whats wrong is wrong, and in this case at least, my argument isn't. Give me some good points like I gave you and I'll be glad to continue an actual debate.
Not really, I've been more than enough debates to know their are people full of themselves like that. (like myself from time to time haha) Glad to hear you were kidding though. ^_^
Originally posted by Damborgson
Yes it is. This is supposed to be basic debating Knowledge. 😬
ABC logic is quite fundamental to logical structures: you're definitely wrong.
Originally posted by Damborgson
k.Well thats blatant trolling. Do you usually see people all static like and blurry? If so thats not normal its a serious problem.
The part where you arguments constitute "nuh uhh" statemenst? Yeah, I guess you could call that trolling if you continue to do it, it could become blatant. Don't be so hard on yourself but I am glad you're letting me know, now, that you've just been trolling.
But, I am glad to see that you have conceded that point. You now amended your position from "completely blind" to what I had asserted. You didn't directly concede, but I will accept your concession on this point in that form if that's the only way you will provide it.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Lol k. Glad you tested that theory out. I personally never planned on it but at least now I know.
I have no idea to which statement this refers to. You'e getting out of sync because you do not know how to quote posts or sections of posts properly.
Originally posted by Damborgson
The anime is non canon so why would that matter?
Oh! You didn't know where you were? I'll be happy to help. This is the "Anime vs. Forum". Regardless, my actual reason for mentioning the Anime was to see if your theory had any water anywhere besides fan-fic. Even the anime does not confirm your baseless guessing.
Originally posted by Damborgson
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v43/c391/16.htmlhttp://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v25/c223/10.html
Please tell me the differences you see in those eyes. I see a pair of healthy eyes and a pair of blind eyes.
What I see is a bunch of irrelevant scans to the problem. I told you I would be willing to concede that Itachi was blind but you have not provided anything but your own baseless speculation that goes against what we see (pun?) in the manga and anime.
Originally posted by Damborgson
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v43/c392/7.html^ Here he says "I know this feeling. Orochimaru's Hydra technique." Their was a gian multi headed serpent infront of him and he was going by feelings. I'm sure his eyesight was fine.
That's a non sequitur conclusion. You do know that you're contradicted by...lesse...Hiruzen when Naruto was bringing out Kurama's chakra during his fight with Neji, right? Hiruzen wasn't blind. I also believe Jiraiya commented on feeling Kurama's chakra, too. So, no, your conclusion is still baseless and unsupported. You need something more concrete. Since I have viewed both primary sources (manga and anime), there is no support for your position. The only way you can get support is from a statement from Kishimoto, himself.
Originally posted by Damborgson
TrollingTrolling
(lol you mad) Trolling
I have no idea what you're referring to, here. If you are referring to my "derp" comments, that's because you replied with nothing but "nuh uhh" or "derp" statements.
But, hahahahaahahah "u mad". hahahahaahaha. Oh man.
1234
Originally posted by Damborgson
Dude....you've failed to prove ANYTHING. Like literally anything on here. This argument was over when you had to resort to trolling (for fun or not) and emphasizing "I'm a veteran Manga debater. You sound like a little kid. I'm the adult here." 😂
Except every position that I hold, of course. I never resorted to trolling. Your tactics have been "nuh uhh", parroting, and making non sequitur conclusions. I never once had to "resort" to trolling. And, no, I never said I was a "veteran manga debater". For one, I do not even consider this a debate. Secondly, you have no actual substance in your arguments. Lastly, you commit common logical fallacies.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Sharing a view with someone isn't parroting. Trying to spin it into that doesnt work. ❌
Another "nuh uhhh" reply. Repeating the same argument as someone else after it has been addressed is parroting. This portion of your post is a dodge tactic.
Originally posted by Damborgson
What more do I have to add when you've been proved wrong?
You have yet to prove a single point, actually. (edit - retraction. That's not true. You tried to support your position that Itachi "feeling" Oro's chakra means he was blind. I destroyed that by showing you others that can feel chakra who are non-chakra sensors). Don't become delusional. 🙂
Originally posted by Damborgson
Just keep pushing the point?
Make sure you don't project: you are the one that keeps parroting arguments and bringing up the same points. 🙂
Originally posted by Damborgson
You just repeat flawed and wrong arguments.
Come now, don't parrot my complaints about what you're doing. 😉
Originally posted by Damborgson
So I mess around and respond to what I'm given.
No, you respond with "nuh uh" posts making it impossible for any sort of normal dialogue to continue. You are given exactly what you give: a nuh uh reply. If you actually had something of substance to reply with, I could actually respond with something other than a silly "nuh uh".
Originally posted by Damborgson
I'm not going to sit here and lecture further someone who closes their eyes shakes their head and stomps their foot. 😉
The only way that could occur is if you lectured yourself. By the way, that's the equivalent of a "no u".
Originally posted by Damborgson
Whats wrong is wrong, and in this case at least, my argument isn't.
Again, you're only responding with "nuh uh". That's not how you improve your position. You don't want to be lectured but you have tons to learn.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Give me some good points like I gave you and I'll be glad to continue an actual debate.
I have. Go back through the thread, find my arguments, and properly respond to them with something other than "nuh uhhh".
I literally cannot respond to a "nuh uhh" comment with anything more than..."k...uh huuhhh".
Originally posted by Damborgson
Not really, I've been more than enough debates to know their are people full of themselves like that. (like myself from time to time haha) Glad to hear you were kidding though. ^_^
Well, sure, I was joking. But I wasn't completely lying, either. You still have a long way to go.
Start off with a clean slate. Restate your arguments clearly and concisely. Then I will copy and paste my replies to those arguments. Then try to contradict those points with your own evidence and points withOUT using a "nuh uhh" comeback. Actually use substance. I am giving you information on how to have a conversation: if you do not take my advice, you won't get very far in any discussions, anywhere.
Originally posted by dadudemon
You did not correct me. You proved me right.40-50 is not prime, anymore. That's waning. What I said. You're wrong. (I would put in estahuh, right here, but I think I ran out of space)
Depends on the person. A has not shown any signs of waning. He looks much stronger than ever, and if I use your 'feats' path, he was much stronger against Sasuke than he was against Minato. stoned
Originally posted by dadudemon
No, he stopped, he did not stalemate with B. It is made to look like a stalemate but it is only due to Minato calling it quits.
Wrong.
We don't know if Minato called it quits after attempting to take out Bee. We simply do not know what happened. Ergo, stalemate.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Wrong: based on A's very words, you have sick pwnage.
Wrong.
Based on chakra usage, you have sick pwnage.
stoned
Originally posted by dadudemonSpoiler:
My goal was for you to try and bring this up as a trump card... 🙂Sasuke himself says Itachi tried to kill him multiple times. It does not matter if the overall goal was to draw forth Oro. Had Sasuke messed up, he would have died multiple times.
Additionally, the difference between an Itachi holding back and an Itachi going all out is the version of Itachi that is fighting Kabuto now. And thus, the trap your fell into. 🙂
Lastly, Itachi always had it in the plans to stop or even kill Sasuke if Sasuke turned against the village BEFORE he fought Sasuke:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v58/c550/11.html
Game. Set. Match. 313
I guess you shouldn't rely on the lies of Tobi to set up your case, now should you? 313
Wrong.
Tobi clearly states that Itachi was not aiming to kill Sasuke, but to push him to the edge, and that Itachi was not aiming to win the fight. Tobi's words > Yours.
Appropriate of you to ignore the very next page where he states Naruto was the only one who could stop Sasuke and that his plan was to use Kotoamatsukami. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v58/c550/12.html Whatever point you were making is nullified and irrelevant.
Game. Set. Match. 131
I guess you shouldn't rely on ignoring some events and warping others to set up your case, now should you? 131
Originally posted by dadudemon
This was a very dishonest attempt on your part. Not sure why you would try this:http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v42/c389/10.html
It's the residual effects of Tsukyomi that were already wearing off by the very next page.
Let's not try to pull something like this again. 🙂
a) Different translation, one I was not aware of. But fair enough, my apologies.
b) Itachi was still having vision problems. http://www.mangareader.net/93-391-3/naruto/chapter-386.html
Originally posted by dadudemon
I will concede this...however, you're committing a strawman.There's a difference between what I said and Juugo stating that Itachi's wounds against Sasuke not healing: they won't heal. It is not something he can heal and this is what juugo is referring to. Scars? Permanent damage?
Wrong.
He states they 'did not heal'. That is taken to mean that the damage Itachi caused is still in the process of healing.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Wrong, he used two new ultra-powerful techs during his fight with B that he did not have before. You're trying to move that bar just to be right.Deal with the fact that Sasuke had two new techs to bring to the fight and stop pretending Sasuke was weaker than he was.
Wrong, he used one new powerful tech during the fight with Bee that he did not have before. Amaterasu was unlocked right before the end so it does not count.
Deal with the fact that Sasuke had one new tech to bring to the fight and strop pretending Sasuke was stronger than he was.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Wrong: the strongest Sasuke has ever been (up to that point) was seen in this fight against B. Not only was Sasuke stronger in this fight than he was against Itachi, he got two healings to continue. Additionally, Sasuke used Amaterasu in a way Itachi was never seen using so in a way, he progressed further than Itachi by this point.
Wrong.
The strongest Sasuke has ever been (up to that point) was seen in this fight against Itachi. Not only was Sasuke stronger in this fight than he was against Bee, he never needed healings from someone else as he had the ability to regenerate.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's B touching Nagato:http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v58/c550/16.html
Additionally, every time they went to attack, speed from Nagato had nothing to do with it: he moved very little and did not have to react very much. The only thing Nagato did was react and move just a bit to catch both of them.
Here's Naruto's commentary on Nagato's level of mastery being much higher than before:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v58/c551/9.html
Basically, Naruto and B are still much faster, physically, but Nagato does not have to move from his spot when they attack him.
Contrast this with Minato who is definitely not as dumb as Naruto.
Wrong.
Kindly point out where I said Nagato was faster than Bee and Naruto. When I said 'touch', I was being a dick, as I was very much aware of what happened when Bee used his Lariat and failed miserably.
Still irrelevant as those two could not stop Nagato.
Originally posted by dadudemon
ABC works wonderfully in this case and Itachi fanboys cannot stand it.Itachi does not have the means to contend with Minato's precision, power, and variety of Minato.
ABC works pitifully in this case and Minato fanbois cannot stand it.
Itachi does have the means to contend with Minato's precision, power, and variety of Minato.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Minato makes an effort, but he is not pushed very hard.
He gets his shit pushed in like Sasuke did when facing Naruto at VotE, but still wins.
Originally posted by dadudemon
No, Sasuke did not have all of Oro's techs. That's an extreme exaggeration. He lost his ability to use white snake healing, snake specific summons, and his cursed seal.He gained the second or third most powerful genjutsu and gained an unstoppable offensive power (the only way to prevent it from being a one hit kill is if you dodge it which requires Naruto KCM, A Amped mode, or Minato levels of speed).
You have to be a retard of a troll to think Sasuke came out of his fight with Itachi as being "weaker" than his old state.
You are also claiming that Sasuke could recover from what seems like permanenet wounds from Itachi.
As far as your last comment about Sasuke being much stronger by the time he fights Danzo, I would agree. However, the addition of only those two MS techniques, imo, made him stronger than he was before when he fought Itachi. I personally think the cursed seal held him back...and Itachi seemed to think so, as well. lol
Fine, an exaggeration, as he did not show Rashomon gates or body manip. Every snake-related tech Oro showed was supposed to be in his arsenal though, as was regeneration and enhanced healing. Cursed Seal amped his physical stats and chakra levels.
No, Itachi's Tsukuyomi is the 'second or third most powerful genjutsu'. Sasuke's was proven to be pitifully weaker in comparison, but still pretty strong.
Gained Amaterasu at the end of the fight, otherwise, he would have attempted to spam it against Bee.
You have to be a retard of a troll to think Sasuke came out of his fight with Itachi as being stronger than his old state.
Yes, the damage he sustained against Itachi wasn't healed by the time he fought Bee.
No.
After his fight with Itachi, he lost two massive amps. He gained a weaker Tsukuyomi.
Amaterasu (which he unlocked at the end of his fight with Bee) made him nearly as strong as he was when he fought Itachi. He was still recovering when he fought Bee (a fact both the anime and the manga confirm), so it is 100% certain that he was weaker when he fought Bee.
Usage of an incomplete Susano'o and Enton manipulation made him stronger than he was when he fought Itachi.
Completing Susano'o and unlocking its Bow made him much stronger.
No the Cursed seal did not hold him back, it amped his stats and allowed him to push past his normal chakra limits. However, it was still dangerous to Sasuke, as shown in Part 1.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, really, if the fight started out with both knowing what they know now, B would just speed blitz Sasuke and one hit kill him. Sasuke would be best served putting up his Susaon'o immediately, imo.From there, B can just play a war of attrition as he has much more chakra than Sasuke. B is fast enough to dodge amaterasu like A did, imo. I am willing to budge on that position but B seems to be in the top 5 when it comes to speed.
Bee is incapable of blitzing Sasuke, who can dodge him, as shown on panel. Sasuke would not bother entering a Taijutsu/Kenjutsu fight with Bee, as he knows he'd lose easily if he slipped up even once.
Base Mode Bee, nah. IMO, he needs to at least be in V2 form to dodge it, and even then it is iffy, as I don't remember his reflexes being on Minato's/A's level. What he could do is to use Samehada to absorb it, but that would hurt Samehada immensely.
If Sasuke uses Susano'o, which he would, then Bee's only hope is to use the full transformation (which can be owned by Amaterasu), or to hope Samehada can get past Susano'o.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Just saw this post. You sunuva. 😠 😠 😠
I am a Minato fanboy as well, but my boner for Itachi is bigger.
That said, it does not compare to your boner for Minato. estahuh
Anyway f*** this shit. I've already admitted Minato would win. Let this thread die.
Originally posted by dadudemon
ABC logic is quite fundamental to logical structures: you're definitely wrong.The part where you arguments constitute "nuh uhh" statemenst? Yeah, I guess you could call that trolling if you continue to do it, it could become blatant. Don't be so hard on yourself but I am glad you're letting me know, now, that you've just been trolling.
But, I am glad to see that you have conceded that point. You now amended your position from "completely blind" to what I had asserted. You didn't directly concede, but I will accept your concession on this point in that form if that's the only way you will provide it.
I have no idea to which statement this refers to. You'e getting out of sync because you do not know how to quote posts or sections of posts properly.
Oh! You didn't know where you were? I'll be happy to help. This is the "Anime vs. Forum". Regardless, my actual reason for mentioning the Anime was to see if your theory had any water anywhere besides fan-fic. Even the anime does not confirm your baseless guessing.
What I see is a bunch of irrelevant scans to the problem. I told you I would be willing to concede that Itachi was blind but you have not provided anything but your own baseless speculation that goes against what we see (pun?) in the manga and anime.
That's a non sequitur conclusion. You do know that you're contradicted by...lesse...Hiruzen when Naruto was bringing out Kurama's chakra during his fight with Neji, right? Hiruzen wasn't blind. I also believe Jiraiya commented on feeling Kurama's chakra, too. So, no, your conclusion is still baseless and unsupported. You need something more concrete. Since I have viewed both primary sources (manga and anime), there is no support for your position. The only way you can get support is from a statement from Kishimoto, himself.
I have no idea what you're referring to, here. If you are referring to my "derp" comments, that's because you replied with nothing but "nuh uhh" or "derp" statements.
But, hahahahaahahah "u mad". hahahahaahaha. Oh man.
1234
Except every position that I hold, of course. I never resorted to trolling. Your tactics have been "nuh uhh", parroting, and making non sequitur conclusions. I never once had to "resort" to trolling. And, no, I never said I was a "veteran manga debater". For one, I do not even consider this a debate. Secondly, you have no actual substance in your arguments. Lastly, you commit common logical fallacies.
Another "nuh uhhh" reply. Repeating the same argument as someone else after it has been addressed is parroting. This portion of your post is a dodge tactic.
You have yet to prove a single point, actually. (edit - retraction. That's not true. You tried to support your position that Itachi "feeling" Oro's chakra means he was blind. I destroyed that by showing you others that can feel chakra who are non-chakra sensors). Don't become delusional. 🙂
Make sure you don't project: you are the one that keeps parroting arguments and bringing up the same points. 🙂
Come now, don't parrot my complaints about what you're doing. 😉
No, you respond with "nuh uh" posts making it impossible for any sort of normal dialogue to continue. You are given exactly what you give: a nuh uh reply. If you actually had something of substance to reply with, I could actually respond with something other than a silly "nuh uh".
The only way that could occur is if you lectured yourself. By the way, that's the equivalent of a "no u".
Again, you're only responding with "nuh uh". That's not how you improve your position. You don't want to be lectured but you have tons to learn.
I have. Go back through the thread, find my arguments, and properly respond to them with something other than "nuh uhhh".
I literally cannot respond to a "nuh uhh" comment with anything more than..."k...uh huuhhh".
Well, sure, I was joking. But I wasn't completely lying, either. You still have a long way to go.
Start off with a clean slate. Restate your arguments clearly and concisely. Then I will copy and paste my replies to those arguments. Then try to contradict those points with your own evidence and points withOUT using a "nuh uhh" comeback. Actually use substance. I am giving you information on how to have a conversation: if you do not take my advice, you won't get very far in any discussions, anywhere.
Dealing with someone who doesn't even know the flaws in ABC logic is beneath me.
I seriously don't have the energy to do this for another 3 pages.You're posts are huge and most of the space is just nonesense. So i'm going to respond only to the important stuff and not the dribble and trolling. You asked for specific review by Kishimoto, so I gave you scans of Itachi's healthy eyes and his blind eyes. Kishimoto wrote that if you didn't notice. Itachi was completely blind by the end of the fight. And you give me examples of non blind people sensing chakra? It's not like the snakes were far off from him. They were right there. Why say I sense when he could see? I give you on panel evidence that his vision was diminished before the fight and you respond with "No they weren't". Despite it being on panel. 😐 Tsk.
You preach a lot, but you havent shown anything that would make me believe you're anything worth spending this much time on. If you want a troll battle we might as well take it to PM's.
Otherwise express how you think Minato would win. Because quite hilariously, all these posts of yours have revolved around nope Itachi would lose with zero evidence.
I already said how Itachi would win. I don't remeber anyone being able to counter it.
So start debating on how Minato would win, or concede. You already lost but might as well give it a good show no?
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Bee is incapable of blitzing Sasuke, who can dodge him, as shown on panel.
I am willing to concede that point, actually. However, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't remember that ever happening.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Sasuke would not bother entering a Taijutsu/Kenjutsu fight with Bee, as he knows he'd lose easily if he slipped up even once.
I agree.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Base Mode Bee, nah. IMO, he needs to at least be in V2 form to dodge it, and even then it is iffy, as I don't remember his reflexes being on Minato's/A's level. What he could do is to use Samehada to absorb it, but that would hurt Samehada immensely.
Really? He seemed so fast that not even Sasuke could keep track of him. However, I am using both implied "speed" in the manga (because you can't get an actual speed measure with just pictures unless someone does a count down like Naruto did with Deva Path). B virtually teleported away from the fight. His body flicker ability seems to put Sasuke's to shame (as Sasuke even has a precog eyeball advantage in tracking movements of people).
I do not think Samehada is a good choice. It does not seem like Preta Path: it seems to absorb chakra, but not ninjutsu/chakra elements. For instance, B was able to cut Itachi's great ball of fire in half with Samehada. If it was more like Preta Path, it would have absorbed it.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
If Sasuke uses Susano'o, which he would, then Bee's only hope is to use the full transformation (which can be owned by Amaterasu), or to hope Samehada can get past Susano'o.
I think B is more than strong enough to bust up Susano'o in just his base form, alone. His base form is stronger than V2 raikage. No telling how strong his beast cloak form makes him if you consider how much stronger it makes Naruto.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I am a Minato fanboy as well, but my boner for Itachi is bigger.
That said, it does not compare to your boner for Minato. estahuh
I KNEW IT! 😠
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Anyway f*** this shit. I've already admitted Minato would win. Let this thread die.
K. We talked about stuff other than the thread, so we both did just that: let the thread die.
Originally posted by ichigo12
So Minato fights a blind person, I dont see difficulty in there.
That was going to be my argument, as well, but I figure it was too low to stoop. Itachi can see just fine. I don't want to gimp him. 🙂
Originally posted by DamborgsonDealing with someone who doesn't even know the flaws in ABC logic is beneath me.
I seriously don't have the energy to do this for another 3 pages.You're posts are huge and most of the space is just nonesense. So i'm going to respond only to the important stuff and not the dribble and trolling. You asked for specific review by Kishimoto, so I gave you scans of Itachi's healthy eyes and his blind eyes. Kishimoto wrote that if you didn't notice. Itachi was completely blind by the end of the fight. And you give me examples of non blind people sensing chakra? It's not like the snakes were far off from him. They were right there. Why say I sense when he could see? I give you on panel evidence that his vision was diminished before the fight and you respond with "No they weren't". Despite it being on panel. 😐 Tsk.
You preach a lot, but you havent shown anything that would make me believe you're anything worth spending this much time on. If you want a troll battle we might as well take it to PM's.
Otherwise express how you think Minato would win. Because quite hilariously, all these posts of yours have revolved around nope Itachi would lose with zero evidence.
I already said how Itachi would win. I don't remeber anyone being able to counter it.
So start debating on how Minato would win, or concede. You already lost but might as well give it a good show no?
Someone how is not aware that the extreme majority of logical structures are ABC logic is definitely not up to par. Pretty much all logical structures are extensions of "a > b" or "b > a". ABC logic is just a simplistic extension of that basic logical structure. This extends from not only logic (not Vulcan type, but basic logic logic) but into philosophy, computing, discrete math, and so forth. So for someone to claim that ABC logic is flawed and hardly ever usable, I can rest assured that that person has no idea what they are talking about.
My posts are not the only thing huge. 313 In order, Itachi never once showed blind eyes even in the vision. You already conceded that point. You have no proof or even implied proof that Itachi was blind by the end of his fight. Your only proof was the fact that Itachi said he could feel Oro's chakra. I destroyed your evidence by showing where people who could see could also feel chakra. Meaning, your conclusion is non sequitur (a logical fallacy, by the way). Why say that he could feel Oro's chakra? Because Oro was not apparant in the Hydra form, initially. Itachi recognized Oro as being the hydra beast: case closed. 🙂 And, no, it wasn't on panel that Itachi was completely blind. Again, that's baseless speculation on your part.
I am just trying to help you better discuss topics. You have plenty of room to improve. You'll understand, one day, I promise. You'll look back and realize all the fallacies you committed and say that I was right. You don't have to admit that to me, of course, but you will realize it. Well, you could also never realize it and forever wallow in a poor discussion based posting style. That would be sad, of course. And, no, we do not need to go to PMs. You can troll me via PM, if you want, though. I have no objection to friendly trolling in PMs. 🙂
I already expressed how Minato would win.
You did and were soundly defeated.
I already did. Nice try.
Well, that was interesting. Maybe my posts are so long because I type so fast?
Originally posted by dadudemon
I am willing to concede that point, actually. However, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't remember that ever happening.
Bee tried Lariat'ing him with his Bijuu cloak on, but Sasuke dodged him in mid-air. Awesome feat really.
When Bee did Lariat him, Sasuke's Sharingan was turned off, and he was caught off-guard as well.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I agree.
Damn right you do. Smartest move you've made all day. stoned
Originally posted by dadudemon
Really? He seemed so fast that not even Sasuke could keep track of him. However, I am using both implied "speed" in the manga (because you can't get an actual speed measure with just pictures unless someone does a count down like Naruto did with Deva Path). B virtually teleported away from the fight. His body flicker ability seems to put Sasuke's to shame (as Sasuke even has a precog eyeball advantage in tracking movements of people).I do not think Samehada is a good choice. It does not seem like Preta Path: it seems to absorb chakra, but not ninjutsu/chakra elements. For instance, B was able to cut Itachi's great ball of fire in half with Samehada. If it was more like Preta Path, it would have absorbed it.
Sasuke could keep track of him, because Bee moves in straight lines. The whole reason A was able to blitz Sasuke is because A went around Sasuke, and Sasuke's head was too slow to follow him.
Arguments for both sides are present. I personally don't know if it can absorb Susano'o, but seeing as Susano'o is a chakra construct, I think it should be able to.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I think B is more than strong enough to bust up Susano'o in just his base form, alone. His base form is stronger than V2 raikage. No telling how strong his beast cloak form makes him if you consider how much stronger it makes Naruto.
I thought you wrote that incident off as PIS?
Anyway, V2 Bee's only feats are Lariat'ing Nagato (and failing), and this. Even though Samehada absorbed some of Bee's chakra, it didn't happen until after Bee had already made contact. It's damn strong, but doesn't strike as being able to get past a completed Susano'o with a shield.
Originally posted by dadudemon
K. We talked about stuff other than the thread, so we both did just that: let the thread die.
You wanna make a new Bee vs. Current Sasuke thread to carry on this discussion, or move it to the Naruto Discussion thread?
Originally posted by ichigo12
So Minato fights a blind person, I dont see difficulty in there.
Except you put him at full-power already. If you're going to make a vs. thread involving two relatively equal combatants, don't handicap one of them. >__>
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Depends on the person. A has not shown any signs of waning. He looks much stronger than ever, and if I use your 'feats' path, he was much stronger against Sasuke than he was against Minato.
He does not look much stronger than ever. He is looking older. He also had to go V2 to create his "fastest punch" whereas, in the past, he was only V1.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wrong.We don't know if Minato called it quits after attempting to take out Bee. We simply do not know what happened. Ergo, stalemate.
Wrong: Minato did call it quits because he stopped moving whereas, before, he was all over the place. Ergo, not a stalemate but Minato willingly giving up.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wrong.Based on chakra usage, you have sick pwnage.
Already addressed this in my opening statement. 🙂
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wrong.Tobi clearly states that Itachi was not aiming to kill Sasuke, but to push him to the edge, and that Itachi was not aiming to win the fight. Tobi's words > Yours.
Appropriate of you to ignore the very next page where he states Naruto was the only one who could stop Sasuke and that his plan was to use Kotoamatsukami. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v58/c550/12.html Whatever point you were making is nullified and irrelevant.
Game. Set. Match. 131
I guess you shouldn't rely on ignoring some events and warping others to set up your case, now should you? 131
You do realize that you ignored my actual point, right? You did not actually address what I said. You just restated what you had said, previously. And then you made a non-sequitur point about Naruto being the only one to stop Sasuke: that's because Itachi is dead (et body) and Shinsui's tech was already activated in Itachi preventing him from using it 😬
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
a) Different translation, one I was not aware of. But fair enough, my apologies.b) Itachi was still having vision problems. http://www.mangareader.net/93-391-3/naruto/chapter-386.html
A) awesome. See, adults can argue like adults from time to time. Meow.
b) IMO, that simply the genjutsu ending. The anime agrees with my interpretation, as well. However, I am willing to concede this point because it does not diminish my position: Itachi had just gotten done using a ton of genjutsu with Sasuke.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wrong.He states they 'did not heal'. That is taken to mean that the damage Itachi caused is still in the process of healing.
No, that quite clearly states that the wounds literally did not heal. Some did, some didn't. Even really bad wounds can start to heal in a few hours. I take Sasuke's fight against B to have taken place a few days after his fight with Itachi. No way Sasuke fought with all of his wounds still in place. So we can conclude 1 or two things: Sasuke cannot heal some of the wounds given to him by Itachi: permanent damage/scaring. Sasuke needs special medical ninjutsu to heal those wounds. Regardless of the outcome, it does not look like Sasuke can heal those wounds. It does not mean that Sasuke did not heal. Scarring or permanent damage does not diminish your point or mine: it just means Sasuke could not heal some things.
On top of that, Sasuke was restored twice in that fight and Jugo's comment comes after the fight. Tells me those wounds can't be healed. However, Sasuke was more powerful in that fight than against Itachi, imo. He brought two new techs and was more sure of himself. He also got to be healed twice.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wrong, he used one new powerful tech during the fight with Bee that he did not have before. Amaterasu was unlocked right before the end so it does not count.Deal with the fact that Sasuke had one new tech to bring to the fight and strop pretending Sasuke was stronger than he was.
Wrong: he used two new powerful techs that he had not used before. Amaterasu was used in that fight, period, so it counts as having been used in the fight (that point is so tautological that it doesn't even make sense that you're arguing against it).
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wrong.The strongest Sasuke has ever been (up to that point) was seen in this fight against Itachi. Not only was Sasuke stronger in this fight than he was against Bee, he never needed healings from someone else as he had the ability to regenerate.
Wrong: the strongest Sasuke has ever been (up to that fight) has been against B. Not only did Sasuke appear to be more physically spry with taijutsu than he was against Itachi, he also brought two now super power techs to the fight that he had not used before. He also was healed twice during his fight with B. And healing eats up chakra so it can be seen as a detriment to he person in the long run if they do not have a plan. Sasuke using his two team mates to heal up is actually a better idea: he gets new chakra and he doesn't use up his own healing with white snake ability. Using the white snake ability is a double-edged sword and part of the reason why Kabuto is so potent, now: he can replenish his chakra with his sage mode.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Wrong.Kindly point out where I said Nagato was faster than Bee and Naruto. When I said 'touch', I was being a dick, as I was very much aware of what happened when Bee used his Lariat and failed miserably.
Still irrelevant as those two could not stop Nagato.
Kindly point out where I said you said Nagato was faster than B and Naruto. Bad path to take. 🙂
And since you said "touch" but now admit to being a dick about it, cool. But that's weird. Were you aware that Nagato got a lariat? 😄 Yeah, Nagato was not very fast, at all. He just couldn't get smacked down due to Preta and Deva path pretty much making him invincible. Really, imo, the only way to be able to defeat that version of Pain was to seal him with the sword. I don't think there is really a way to defeat Madara, imo.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
ABC works pitifully in this case and Minato fanbois cannot stand it.Itachi does have the means to contend with Minato's precision, power, and variety of Minato.
ABC logic works wonderfully in this cause and Itachi fanbois cannot stand it. Itachi does not have the means to contend with Minato's precision, power and variety.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He gets his shit pushed in like Sasuke did when facing Naruto at VotE, but still wins.
Minato makes an effort, but he is not pushed very hard.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Fine, an exaggeration, as he did not show Rashomon gates or body manip. Every snake-related tech Oro showed was supposed to be in his arsenal though, as was regeneration and enhanced healing. Cursed Seal amped his physical stats and chakra levels.
Not every snake related tech, either. It was never stated that Sasuke got all of Oro's snake techs. Kabuto, on the other hand, might...but again, he may not have all of Oro's specific snake techs related. The cursed seal also corrodes the person's will and allows Oro to slowly take over. This is what happened against Itachi and one of the reasons Itachi was using deadly techs against his brother the entire time. So the cursed seal is not all it's cracked up to be. Getting rid of the cursed seal was actually a good idea, overall, for Sasuke. Again, Itachi agrees with me.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
No, Itachi's Tsukuyomi is the 'second or third most powerful genjutsu'. Sasuke's was proven to be pitifully weaker in comparison, but still pretty strong.
Gained Amaterasu at the end of the fight, otherwise, he would have attempted to spam it against Bee.
No, Sasuke's was not pitifully weaker. He just lacks the ability to slow down time with it. It is still an extremely powerful technique that
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v44/c411/18.html
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You have to be a retard of a troll to think Sasuke came out of his fight with Itachi as being stronger than his old state.
You have to be a retard of a troll to think Sasuke came out of his fight with Itachi as being "weaker" than his old state.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yes, the damage he sustained against Itachi wasn't healed by the time he fought Bee.
But it did not seem to affect Sasuke's mobility. Like I said, Sasuke was doing more acrobatics in his fight against B than against Itachi. Also, the "chakra amp" the cursed seal gave him is negated by the fact that Sasuke got healed twice (and given chakra during the process). Karin fainted because of how much chakra was taken and she is an Uzumaki. Suigetsu shrank in size due to how much chakra was taken and Suigetsu is on the beastlier side of chakra stores.
The only damage I could think of that would impact his fight would be a lower-chakra reserve or something. But that was negated by two other replacement abilities via his team-mates. I would say that his team-mates abilities to help Sasuke heal are superior to white snake because white snake uses up your own chakra. So, again, Sasuke entered his fight against B in a superior position than against Itachi.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
No.
After his fight with Itachi, he lost two massive amps. He gained a weaker Tsukuyomi.
No, after his fight with Itachi, he got a parasitic amp removed that would have eventually destroyed him (making it a double edged sword and nigh-useless if he hadn't had it removed because he would have changed into Oro against B and we would have had an entirely different outcome.) But your point does not diminish mine: Sasuke gained the ability to heal himself and get a chakra injection from his two teammates and he considered them pawns to him based on his conversation with Karin. You also ignore the fact that I said Sasuke got two monster powers.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Amaterasu (which he unlocked at the end of his fight with Bee) made him nearly as strong as he was when he fought Itachi. He was still recovering when he fought Bee (a fact both the anime and the manga confirm), so it is 100% certain that he was weaker when he fought Bee.
It is 100% confirmed that Sasuke had no healed from some of the wounds Itachi gave him in the fight, yes...but we do not know to what extend those wounds debilitated him since Sasuke was more physically rowdy than he was against Itachi.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Usage of an incomplete Susano'o and Enton manipulation made him stronger than he was when he fought Itachi.
Completing Susano'o and unlocking its Bow made him much stronger.
I disagree: Sasuke was definitely stronger, overall, against B than he was against Itachi.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
No the Cursed seal did not hold him back, it amped his stats and allowed him to push past his normal chakra limits. However, it was still dangerous to Sasuke, as shown in Part 1.
No, the cursed seal did hold Sasuke back for if he used it too much, eventually, Oro would take over his body. That's a very bad thing. It certainly does allow one to push their chakra limits but at an extreme cost. It also does not seem to offer much of a chakra boost but has a great risk attached to it. I like Sasuke's newer tactic of bring in two people that could not only heal him (white snake replacement) but also replace his chakra that he expends (cursed seal replacement but much more chakra can be given).
Originally posted by dadudemonSomeone how is not aware that the extreme majority of logical structures are ABC logic is definitely not up to par. Pretty much all logical structures are extensions of "a > b" or "b > a". ABC logic is just a simplistic extension of that basic logical structure. This extends from not only logic (not Vulcan type, but basic logic logic) but into philosophy, computing, discrete math, and so forth. So for someone to claim that ABC logic is flawed and hardly ever usable, I can rest assured that that person has no idea what they are talking about.
My posts are not the only thing huge. 313 In order, Itachi never once showed blind eyes even in the vision. You already conceded that point. You have no proof or even implied proof that Itachi was blind by the end of his fight. Your only proof was the fact that Itachi said he could feel Oro's chakra. I destroyed your evidence by showing where people who could see could also feel chakra. Meaning, your conclusion is non sequitur (a logical fallacy, by the way). Why say that he could feel Oro's chakra? Because Oro was not apparant in the Hydra form, initially. Itachi recognized Oro as being the hydra beast: case closed. 🙂 And, no, it wasn't on panel that Itachi was completely blind. Again, that's baseless speculation on your part.
I am just trying to help you better discuss topics. You have plenty of room to improve. You'll understand, one day, I promise. You'll look back and realize all the fallacies you committed and say that I was right. You don't have to admit that to me, of course, but you will realize it. Well, you could also never realize it and forever wallow in a poor discussion based posting style. That would be sad, of course. And, no, we do not need to go to PMs. You can troll me via PM, if you want, though. I have no objection to friendly trolling in PMs. 🙂
I already expressed how Minato would win.
You did and were soundly defeated.
I already did. Nice try.
Well, that was interesting. Maybe my posts are so long because I type so fast?
In the case of high level Shinobi, Such as Minato, Itachi, B etc, we can't use the argument of A beats B and B beats C then A must also beat C. Example: If Itachi beats Minato with Tsukuyomi, that does not mean he beats B. Why? Because Hacchibi will wake him up and break the genjutsu. Yet Minato is capable of taking down B, quicker and more effectively than Itachi.
To many factors to account for for that type of logic to work. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Because you tried to make a point with it found it was flawed and are trying to hold onto it for your prides sake? Its what it seems like to me.
Where did I concede that point lol? I already posted the proof that you have been unable to counter. (Well you did try to counter but it didn't really prove anything)
My proof is right on panel. Just looking at his eyes is enough. Those are blind eyes lol. Those are what blind eyes look like. You saw in the scan that I posted that his eye-sight was diminished while talking to Sasuke yes? He was already seeing static and blurry. It got worse from the backlash of Tsukuyomi but he recovered from that. Amaterasu and Susanoo is what took care of the rest of his vision.
No because they were sensing Kyubi chakra am I right? The kyubi and they had no current illness of the eyes lol. Its about as far off from proving anything as it gets.
Its not baselss when I already provided the proof.
😂
Try using terms when they fit the situation. Not just to sound smart.
😉
Thanks lol? You have your hands full as it is. I don't think Im doing to bad. If ever I start thinking different or that I'm wrong for some reason, you'll be the first person I contact. 😂
Yet you were wrong and I proved it.
Yes by Psycho Gundam. Once. 😮 I suppose Bruce Lee > Chuck Norris at the moment.
But I was most certainly not defeated by you or Ichigo. 😂 Not even close.
Here is how the fight would go in my opinion:
They faceoff, Minato throws his makred Kunai, Itachi counters it and with that motion, he's cast a minor genjutsu on Minato. It'll take Minato a second to figure out he's in it and another to break it. When he releases, he's staring straight into the mangekyo. Tsukuyomi. Game over.
Come at me bro.
Probably. I just let off a long post myself. (lol)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Bee tried Lariat'ing him with his Bijuu cloak on, but Sasuke dodged him in mid-air. Awesome feat really.
When Bee did Lariat him, Sasuke's Sharingan was turned off, and he was caught off-guard as well.
I am reading the fight, now. I'll let you know if I find it and then concede if appropriate.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Damn right you do. Smartest move you've made all day. stoned
But ...but...you're just confirming my previous supposition that Sasuke would got to instant Susano'o.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Sasuke could keep track of him, because Bee moves in straight lines. The whole reason A was able to blitz Sasuke is because A went around Sasuke, and Sasuke's head was too slow to follow him.
AHA! Makes more sense. So why doesn't B do that? Well, it's because B can just confuse the Sharingan with his swords technique.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Arguments for both sides are present. I personally don't know if it can absorb Susano'o, but seeing as Susano'o is a chakra construct, I think it should be able to.
I don't know if it is pure chakra, though. Samehada seems to be able to absorb pure chakra, but not stuff made from chakra like Preta Path. I don't want to give Samehada a feat/ability it does not have until I know for sure.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I thought you wrote that incident off as PIS?
It is. But we are stuck with the logical inconsistancy of such a feat. The only way I can justify it is that A is as fast as his old V1 form because A is getting old (meaning, V1 fastest punch in the past was as fast as V2's fastest punch now).
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Anyway, V2 Bee's only feats are Lariat'ing Nagato (and failing), and this. Even though Samehada absorbed some of Bee's chakra, it didn't happen until after Bee had already made contact. It's damn strong, but doesn't strike as being able to get past a completed Susano'o with a shield.
He did succeed, however. And Nagato did not have time to react to anything B was doing (such as using the various paths to catch B like he did later on). This, for me, shows that B is indeed stupid fast.
It does strike me as being able to easily get passed Susano'o. A is really strong. Tsunade is seen as stronger than A. Not "much stronger", just stronger. B is also stronger than A's V2 form, when B is in base form. So two amps later and I would think that B is around Tsuande's strength. Yes, 400 tonne "class" or more.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You wanna make a new Bee vs. Current Sasuke thread to carry on this discussion, or move it to the Naruto Discussion thread?
Nah. I am relatively satisfied with what we have discussed. My argument boils down to, "Sasuke will be speed blitzed as soon as the fight starts and it is over."
If Sasuke gets Sasuno'o up before B makes contact, B will lose.
I think if Sasuke gets to start in Susano'o form and B gets to start in full biju mode (both in full power states), B loses for the reason you outlined: amaterasu to a much bigger target.
Originally posted by Damborgson
In the case of high level Shinobi, Such as Minato, Itachi, B etc, we can't use the argument of A beats B and B beats C then A must also beat C. Example: If Itachi beats Minato with Tsukuyomi, that does not mean he beats B. Why? Because Hacchibi will wake him up and break the genjutsu. Yet Minato is capable of taking down B, quicker and more effectively than Itachi.
So I got you to concede that ABC logic is not rarely right? Awesome. Well, this is a start for you. In Minato's case, he just happens to be so fast and so versitile in what he can do that ABC logic works perfectly fine. It is only your desperate attempt at saving your favorite character in a fight that prolongs your pain. Here's the problem with your complaint against the ABC logic: Itachi would not get off a genjutsu like that against Minato. Remember, Minato found a sharingan user, before and he was hokage. There's no way he could not know of eye-specific genjutsu when it seemed quite obvious that it was common knowledge amoung jonin when Itachi and Kisame visited Konoha in part 1. Gai had even trained his taijutsu to fight, specifically, against a sharingan because taijutsu has an obvious weakness against an eye technique: don't meet eyes (gaaaaaaaay). So, basically, your what if scenario used to destroy the validity of the ABC logic is irrelevant. You can make up any what if scenario I want, but the what if scenario needs to be relevant.
Originally posted by Damborgson
To many factors to account for for that type of logic to work. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Because you tried to make a point with it found it was flawed and are trying to hold onto it for your prides sake? Its what it seems like to me.
No, there are not too many factors in play for it to work. They are all controlled for since they fought each other (you know what i mean, here). Sure, someone may have a technique that the other is particularly weak against, but we already know how the elemental weaknesses thing pans out. That's not a problem for Minato because the Rasengan is not an elemental jutsu: it is pure shape manip and one of the reasons it is such a good "pure" jutsu. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? Actually, it's not. You know I am right. But you fight against it because your character loses. And that last part of your post is more chest beating and puffing.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Where did I concede that point lol? I already posted the proof that you have been unable to counter. (Well you did try to counter but it didn't really prove anything)
Go back and read the arguments to see where I pointed out, originally, where you conceded this. 🙂
Originally posted by Damborgson
My proof is right on panel. Just looking at his eyes is enough. Those are blind eyes lol. Those are what blind eyes look like. You saw in the scan that I posted that his eye-sight was diminished while talking to Sasuke yes? He was already seeing static and blurry. It got worse from the backlash of Tsukuyomi but he recovered from that. Amaterasu and Susanoo is what took care of the rest of his vision.
That is not proof. Here's why: sasuke also had bloody eyes at multiple points during the manga. He was not blind. Your proof is destroyed, yet again. For me, that was obvious. But you persisted so I had to embarrass you. Sorry about that. 🙁
So, again, I ask you...provide your proof. Where is it? You have none, so far. I have already destroyed your supposed "proof" from multiple angles. The only proof you can provide, at this point, is a statement from Kishimoto. There is none.
So what do we have left? You are wrong. You made a baseless claim and I called you on it. Deal with it and move on.
Originally posted by Damborgson
No because they were sensing Kyubi chakra am I right? The kyubi and they had no current illness of the eyes lol. Its about as far off from proving anything as it gets.
You're incorrect. You used "sensing chakra" as your proof that Itachi had lost his eyesight. I provided at least two examples of where 'seeing' people, who were not chakra sensors, could feel chakra as well. I did not prove anything: I disproved your support for Itachi being blind. Your point has been destroyed, yet again. Deal with it and move on.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Its not baselss when I already provided the proof.😂
Try using terms when they fit the situation. Not just to sound smart.
😉
No, it's baseless because your "proof" was not proof since it easily is contradicted with another example. So it becomes "null" as proof. So you are left with a blank drawing board and are still making a baselessly speculative claim. And, lol, you think using the word "baseless" makes people sound smart. hahahaha
Originally posted by Damborgson
Thanks lol? You have your hands full as it is. I don't think Im doing to bad. If ever I start thinking different or that I'm wrong for some reason, you'll be the first person I contact. 😂
No, my proverbial hands are not full, at all. You're doing quite horribly, actually. The reason you don't think you're doing bad is your delusions of "debating prowess". And, no, do not contact me to tell me I'm right: I already know I am right and do not need my ego stroked to make me feel better.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Yet you were wrong and I proved it.
Another "nuh uhhh" reply? Really? 😬 Okay, well, then...No you, were wrong and I showed you where your supposed proof was useless.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Yes by Psycho Gundam. Once. 😮 I suppose Bruce Lee > Chuck Norris at the moment.But I was most certainly not defeated by you or Ichigo. 😂 Not even close.
See, this is why you fail. I pointed out when you made clear logical fallacies, where you did not actual have "proof", and responded with childish "nuh uhh" statements. But you think that's how you "win a debate". We aren't even having a debate.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Here is how the fight would go in my opinion:They faceoff, Minato throws his makred Kunai, Itachi counters it and with that motion, he's cast a minor genjutsu on Minato. It'll take Minato a second to figure out he's in it and another to break it. When he releases, he's staring straight into the mangekyo. Tsukuyomi. Game over.
Here are your problems with your hilariously gimped scenario:
1. You ignore the fact that Minato would throw a myriad of marked Kunai and Itachi would only be able to block just of a few of them.
2. Minato has the opportunity to throw a Kunai and port to it as it is still flying through the air. Itachi will not be able to do anthing about it if the kunai is out of his line of site: his sharingan becomes useless.
3. Genjutsu would most likely not work on Minato since he's a hokage and is intimately familiar with the Uchiha clan. Tobi didn't use it against Minato...nor did anyone from lightning when he fought them.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Come at me bro.
I did. And I just destroyed your pretend scenario.
Try again. But this time, don't pitifully gimp/ignore how smart and potent Minato is on a 1 v 1 fight.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Probably. I just let off a long post myself. (lol)
Cool story, bro.
Way to waste your time buddy. I'm not reading to through all that. Jesus Christ.
A quick skim brings up more trying to push already debunked strategies and attempts at proving me wrong. Which aren't even new and were already countered and addressed anyway. such as the ABC logic you keep trying to force even if you know you're wrong. Getting kinda sad really...
That little bit at the end is interesting though. I'm glad someone finally gets to a counter to my situation.
Minato getting to throw a barrage of Kunai's would still be ineffective. Itachi isn't know for his lack of mastery of Kunai's, and his genjutsu would still be cast as he threw the weapons. He was able to keep Sasuke in extended Genjutsu for a long period of time. To a non sharingan user, it would be easier. Minato teleports to the deflected Kunai and slices Itachi's throat. Only to see he's attacked a crow bunshin. He breaks the genjutsu and looks straight at the Mangekyo. Game over.
Come at me bro