The Aspects of Presence Vs Marvel's Cosmics

Originally posted by Jynocidus
Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance are the same everywhere.

Omnipotence, is not. So for this battle, Presence is not all powerful in the sense that you all think he stomps LT.

Since LT's powers are still in place, his capabilities still apply so he stomps team 1.

So Marvel writers say that LT embodies Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance, and therefore he embodies those qualities outside of Marvel.

But DC writers say that the Presence created such concepts of Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance, but he doesn't get to retain those qualities because Marvel writers are...better than DC writers?

It should be noted, BTW, that LT is really just a merger of the Marvel abstracts. The part of him that is Necessity is Marvel's Eternity and Marvel's Infinity, which obviously don't exist outside of Marvel.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance are the same everywhere.

Omnipotence, is not. So for this battle, Presence is not all powerful in the sense that you all think he stomps LT.

Since LT's powers are still in place, his capabilities still apply so he stomps team 1.

Originally posted by Cogito
So Marvel writers say that LT embodies Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance, and therefore he embodies those qualities outside of Marvel.

But DC writers say that the Presence created such concepts of Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance, but he doesn't get to retain those qualities because Marvel writers are...better than DC writers?

It should be noted, BTW, that LT is really just a merger of the Marvel abstracts. The part of him that is Necessity is Marvel's Eternity and Marvel's Infinity, which obviously don't exist outside of Marvel.

This thread isn't inside of Marvel or DC. The fact that the writers made an "omnipotent" character is nonsense to me. At least somebody at Marvel knows better.

I get what you're saying about Infinity and Eternity, but do not discredit the fact that abstract concepts are just that: abstract. Those values that they represent exist everywhere also. Infinity is definitely in place, as if existence goes on and on....that facilitates Marvel, DC, Image....Konami, Squaresoft, etc. The omniverse is infinite, and there is only 1 omniverse. No, DC does not have it's own omniverse, and neither does Marvel. They both have their own separate continuities INSIDE of the one fictional omniverse -- because all fiction is fake.

When you really look at it, Presence is not the maker of everything. Presence is a character created to harbor the existence of DC continuity apparently...so he still gets all those powers. It's just not his fault that they do not stack against LT.

What are you on Cogito because I need some. You completely make no sense. The Presence Possesses all all LT attributes plus more. Vengence aka the Spectre. Equality and Necessities The Source and the Word. And that is not even getting to the Big Guns like the GEB, the Voice, and the Ultimate Light.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
I get what you're saying about Infinity and Eternity, but do not discredit the fact that abstract concepts are just that: abstract. Those values that they represent exist everywhere also. Infinity is definitely in place, as if existence goes on and on....that facilitates Marvel, DC, Image....Konami, Squaresoft, etc. The omniverse is infinite, and there is only 1 omniverse. No, DC does not have it's own omniverse, and neither does Marvel. They both have their own separate continuities INSIDE of the one fictional omniverse -- because all fiction is fake.

When you really look at it, Presence is not the maker of everything. Presence is a character created to harbor the existence of DC continuity apparently...so he still gets all those powers. It's just not his fault that they do not stack against LT.

You're still going on about Marvel characters having power outside of Marvel while DC characters have no power outside of DC. It makes zero sense.

You're trying to push the idea that a character Marvel created -- Infinity -- exists in DC? Infinity exists in Konami?

Bull.

Originally posted by hunbu04
What are you on Cogito because I need some. You completely make no sense. The Presence Possesses all all LT attributes plus more. Vengence aka the Spectre. Equality and Necessities The Source and the Word. And that is not even getting to the Big Guns like the GEB, the Voice, and the Ultimate Light.

😕

I make zero sense, but you're agreeing with me?

The Presence created the concepts of necessity/vengeance/equity in DC. He also created beings (e.g. Spectre) that represent those concepts.

writers make mistakes all the time, maybe the writers are misinformed. this is truly the difference between marvel and dc, right here. DC is for pagans lol

you don't know what the presence possesses, hunbu. Presence claims omnipotence but is all types of wrong

when LT and Presence meet, Presence does not automatically jump into the mantle of maker of all. Presence did not make LT or his powers, presence is responsible for Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance *inside of DC* so he apparently powers everybody in DC. More power to him. Presence has the power of an entire continuity.

LT judges continuities, the whole megaverses that make them up. Presence is part of a continuity that yields to Necessity. LT is stronger than that by himself.

Not the actual character Infinity, the aspect of Infinity.....yes, it exists everywhere, Cogito. wake up

Originally posted by Cogito
You're still going on about Marvel characters having power outside of Marvel while DC characters have no power outside of DC. It makes zero sense.

This still makes zero sense, but let me ask you a follow up question.

What specifically did Marvel writers do to create characters that have power outside of Marvel that DC writers didn't? I'm still hung up on how Marvel characters get to keep their powers but DC's don't.

You are still making no sense. Marvel is different from DC they both have their own Abstart Concept. Marvel Eternity and infinity are not part of DC. Because if that is true that will means Galactus who also represent a Abstart concert is part of DC. Infinity is time, eternity is space, galactus is balance. But DC have its own version of similar concert plus the Endless. Marvel and DC have two different Omniverse. LT maintain marvel like Spectre maintain DC. The Presence created DC Omniverse.

Originally posted by Cogito
This still makes zero sense, but let me ask you a follow up question.

What specifically did Marvel writers do to create characters that have power outside of Marvel that DC writers didn't? I'm still hung up on how Marvel characters get to keep their powers but DC's don't.

Only way I can explain it? Marvel has a certain formula they use when creating their characters that revolves around the fact that everything in Marvel Continuity is fictional. They also steer away from involving "God" in stories...(notice how Galactus apparently was there at the beginning of the universe, or how Sentry resembles JC God at a certain point in history, or Mephisto having been what beings see as "Satan" at one point in time)

DC is different. They switch. Sometimes, Presence is the all everything. Then you have Mandrak threatening DC, and Cosmic Armor Supes which are probably portrayed superior to.."God." How is Superman really going to be stronger than God?

Presence's powers don't work outside of DC because as soon as he leaves DC, there's fictional forces of creation that Presence is not responsible for, so it cannot automatically merge with everything because it did not create Marvel or the beings that exist within its continuity.

LT's powers work outside of Marvel (or at least in this thread) because Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance are the same everywhere. Omnipotence is not, and Presence is not omnipotent. He's...the source of all power for DC, so in that essence...he's all everything *FOR DC*

LT cannot go in DC and pass judgement, because Presence is there...it would have to be retconned in. However, lets say this thread decides the face of DC. DC is going to get retconned because Presence cannot do anything to LT.

Presence has the means to if he wishes since he is the archetict of Creation. LT is nothing more of a watch dog and enforcer given by the power of TOAA or whatever it serves to. LT is pretty much closer to Spectre in given power. Continuint or not this is how I see LT below.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
presence cannot devolve all life in the omniverse, only in DC continuity. So when someone like LT comes who is a beast, who can judge entire continuities, what can the presence to to fend against that?

I'd say DC lacks a true hierarchy, because of this very situation. whatever anyone on team 1 represents does not outweigh necessity, yet i'm the only one who sees this. it's not semantics, this should be...common sense. good and evil are necessary in the world, in order to create there are necessities. LT is that, and some, and smashes team 1 handily.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
LT's powers work outside of Marvel (or at least in this thread) because Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance are the same everywhere. Omnipotence is not, and Presence is not omnipotent. He's...the source of all power for DC, so in that essence...he's all everything *FOR DC*

I don't understand how you can say that LT represents Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance everywhere, but the Presence doesn't (when he does represent that just as much, if not more, than LT).

You give one character power outside of his company, and you don't allow another character to play by the same rules. That's not how this forum works. End of story.

If you ask me, Spectre is weaker than LT. He's only spirit of vengeance. LT embodies it. Spectre answers to Presence, LT answers to a writer who puts the story in place.

To Marvel characters, LT might as well be the Presence. He doesn't have to facilitate everyones existence with his own power, the plot devices for the functionality of continuity are already in place. He just enforces the will of TOAA.

If Presence is any and everything to DC, he still answers to another outside influence (the writer) so in that aspect he is not any more powerful than LT (if giving him the benefit of the doubt) but I do not see Presence as more omnipotent than LT. Nobody has said anything that makes me think otherwise other than "PResence is omnipotent" and they fail to realize that it is not.

Even inside of DC, Presence does what is necessary....that is decided by the writer for the story. Even with that said, that necessity is LT....

So outside of DC, not necessarily in Marvel, but for this thread...why doesn't necessity > Presence's false omnipotence?

Originally posted by hunbu04 What are you on Cogito because I need some. You completely make no sense. The Presence Possesses all all LT attributes plus more. Vengence aka the Spectre. Equality and Necessities The Source and the Word. And that is not even getting to the Big Guns like the GEB, the Voice, and the Ultimate Light.

geb is its own entity, right?

Funny story. Only once has TOAA been directly implied to be the writer/artist (in a FF story). As Galan showed, the same can be said of the Presence.

If you mean Grant Morrison in the Animal Man story, that wasn't the Presence

Originally posted by Endless Mike
If you mean Grant Morrison in the Animal Man story, that wasn't the Presence

I've never really read Animal Man, so please fill me in.

Regardless, TOAA and the Presence both fulfill the same role. They both act as conduits through which the Writers and Artists create stories. Neither is physically the writer/artist.. DC created a mythological story vaguely resembling the Judeo-Christian God to accompany and explain their actions through him. Marvel...didn't really create a story around theirs, but that's ok. Both still fulfill the exact same role for two different companies.

What Galan posted, has sort of been done in Marvel as well. The FF met the artist or writer. That same...entity is the only thing that can stop LT.

Like I posted earlier in this thread, Presence (given the benefit of the doubt) may be a "source" entity, that same source does not power anything outside of DC. The necessity, equity, and vengeance within the presence does not play a factor in a relatively neutral environment where both characters are able to exist. This neutral environment has its own creation theory, which had no involvement from the Presence. Although it had no involvement from LT either, LT is Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance, not a false omnipotent. So his values outweigh team 1 every single time.

LT stomps

Originally posted by Cogito
I don't understand how you can say that LT represents Necessity, Equity, and Vengeance everywhere, but the Presence doesn't (when he does represent that just as much, if not more, than LT).

You give one character power outside of his company, and you don't allow another character to play by the same rules. That's not how this forum works. End of story.