Originally posted by Jynocidus
if LT can't affect characters from other comic companies, how do much weaker characters effect other characters in the many versus threads on this site?
Originally posted by iceman24567
Of course he is too bad he can't affect characters for other comic companies 😆
Originally posted by Endless Mike
You know the Grant Morrison meeting Animal Man thing was retconned to be a trick of Anansi or something
Originally posted by abhilegend
I've seen that and read almost every appearance of LT. Now get back when you're sober. At this point you're just trolling.
that's sad. I've read less than you, and can see clearly how LT stomps. Maybe you should re-read so you can comprehend, sometimes it takes more than one read.
you're "trolling."
tell me how LT loses and i'll back down. I will not let this thread be overran by misinformed DC trolls, at least while it's still open.
Originally posted by Jynocidus
that's sad. I've read less than you, and can see clearly how LT stomps. Maybe you should re-read so you can comprehend, sometimes it takes more than one read.you're "trolling."
tell me how LT loses and i'll back down. I will not let this thread be overran by misinformed DC trolls, at least while it's still open.
Originally posted by Jynocidus
tell me how LT loses and i'll back down.
The Presence is omnipotent. That's DC canon.
Forum rules state that characters fight at their maximum capacity. That means, even though LT is a Marvel character, that the Presence is still omnipotent with regard to this thread.
Again,
Presence = Omnipotent
LT = not Omnipotent
I don't know how this gets any more clear cut
Originally posted by Cogito
The Presence is omnipotent. That's DC canon.Forum rules state that characters fight at their maximum capacity. That means, even though LT is a Marvel character, that the Presence is still omnipotent with regard to this thread.
Again,
Presence = Omnipotent
LT = not OmnipotentI don't know how this gets any more clear cut
simple: Presence being omnipotent = fallacy. Omnipotent means all powerful, if something else created LT that was not the power of Presence, Presence is not Omnipotent. Go grab a dictionary and define omnipotent.
that fact of Presence not being omnipotent, makes it..."nigh-omnipotent." And even much less so than the LT, simply because it lacks the knowledge that it did not create everything.
chars fight at their max capacity? Great, so Presence is only as powerful as the DC continuity which is only different than Marvel continuity due to what is contained within it. The fact that LT can judge a continuity does not change.
The Presence does what is required of it, for DC. That requirement, aka necessity, is LT's powerset because he embodies it. If it is necessary for the presence to merge with GEB for the story to continue? it happens. So the fact that LT embodies necessity makes him < Presence. With power that discriminates against no other force (equity), that makes him even more <<<< Presence.
his judgement is his response (vengeance), and nothing that Presence can do would protect it from LT's final say.
Presence is not more powerful than LT. The only thing that can change LT's status in this fight, is a writer. Presence is not Morrison or any other TOAA-ish writer, Presence is a character on panel that does what is required of it for whatever SL it is portrayed in.
LT stomps.
Originally posted by Jynocidus
simple: Presence being omnipotent = fallacy. Omnipotent means all powerful, if something else created LT that was not the power of Presence, Presence is not Omnipotent. Go grab a dictionary and define omnipotent.
No.
The Presence is omnipotent within DC, just as LT is nigh-omnipotent within Marvel. This wankage has got to stop.
Neither one exists within the other's company. You can't just say the Presence has no power over the LT because the LT is a Marvel character without saying LT has no power over the Presence because he's a DC character.
This thread is retarded. Next Superman won't be able to hurt Thor because they're from different companies.
But that's the point of this forum. To mix companies and perhaps genres to debate the more powerful character in a neutral environment while still retaining their abilities/powers.
God. Damn. It. Not that hard to understand.
Originally posted by Cogito
The Presence is omnipotent. That's DC canon.Forum rules state that characters fight at their maximum capacity. That means, even though LT is a Marvel character, that the Presence is still omnipotent with regard to this thread.
Again,
Presence = Omnipotent
LT = not OmnipotentI don't know how this gets any more clear cut
Cogito, I understand where you are coming from but even according to DC, the Presence by definition is NOT omnipotent.
In scenario one, if Vertigo's God is the same being as mainstream DC's Presence, we got HUGE problems calling that being omnipotent. Like I mentioned before, GEB's very existence proves that statement to be a lie. GEB is NOT part of Vertigo God's creation and is totally independent of him/her/it. In fact, they are locked in a stalemate. You cannot have two TRUE omnipotent beings.
Then there's the Swamp Thing/Elemental Congress fiasco.
In scenario two, Vertgo's God isn't the same being as mainstream DC's God. Then they aren't truly omnipotent, just the most powerful (arguable see Primal Monitor and Mandrakk 1 and WF Mxy) in their respective creations. Each are independent of the other and boss (debatable) only of their little section of the greater DC Omniverse.
This isn't the case with the LT. He's omniversal in scope and the last line of defense before you involve TOAA (which in reality is the writer).
Originally posted by Cogito
No.The Presence is omnipotent within DC, just as LT is nigh-omnipotent within Marvel. This wankage has got to stop.
Neither one exists within the other's company. You can't just say the Presence has no power over the LT because the LT is a Marvel character without saying LT has no power over the Presence because he's a DC character.
This thread is retarded. Next Superman won't be able to hurt Thor because they're from different companies.
But that's the point of this forum. To mix companies and perhaps genres to debate the more powerful character in a neutral environment while still retaining their abilities/powers.
God. Damn. It. Not that hard to understand.
why can't you understand that you aren't omnipotent unless you're omnipotent everywhere? There is only 1 omnipotent being, anywhere.
I sure can say that the Presence has no power over LT. Don't blame me for DC's God being portrayed as a false omnipotent, blame the writers. The Presence being "omnipotent in DC" doesn't stack up against a being who embodies necessity. Presence gets no mercy here, it is what it is.
I'm not saying Presence holds no power over LT because he's a Marvel character, I'm saying Presence holds no power over LT because necessity > creations (team 1). They don't have what is required to win, because LT embodies it. For team 1 to rely on Presence's false omnipotence will short change them for a harsh stomping courtesy of the LT.
Originally posted by zopzop
Cogito, I understand where you are coming from but even according to DC, the Presence by definition is NOT omnipotent.In scenario one, if Vertigo's God is the same being as mainstream DC's Presence, we got HUGE problems calling that being omnipotent. Like I mentioned before, GEB's very existence proves that statement to be a lie. GEB is NOT part of Vertigo God's creation and is totally independent of him/her/it. In fact, they are locked in a stalemate. You cannot have two TRUE omnipotent beings.
Then there's the Swamp Thing/Elemental Congress fiasco.
In scenario two, Vertgo's God isn't the same being as mainstream DC's God. Then they aren't truly omnipotent, just the most powerful (arguable see Primal Monitor and Mandrakk 1 and WF Mxy) in their respective creations. Each are independent of the other and boss (debatable) only of their little section of the greater DC Omniverse.
This isn't the case with the LT. He's omniversal in scope and the last line of defense before you involve TOAA (which in reality is the writer).
I understand your points, but disagree.
I've said this a hundred times before -- DC's hierarchy is far more abstract than Marvel's. It's filled with paradoxes and contradictions. And it's meant to, because it's more of a mirror to the way we real people view religion. The Judeo-Christian God, and I don't mean the one in DC, likewise is believed to consist of paradoxes and contradictions. We're told, by those in the Church/Mosque/Synagogue etc, that this is because we, as humans, can't fully comprehend God.
I truly believe that DC has tried to mirror this in it's own omnipotent. There are levels of complication and paradoxes that we aren't meant to understand and that aren't ever going to be explained, because that's not how it was intended.
All we know is that we're told the Presence is Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, etc., and that's the way it is. He appears in different forms (Ultimate Light/GEB/etc), but it's all the same. It's abstract, it doesn't seem to make sense, but within DC the Presence reigns supreme.
Originally posted by Jynocidus
why can't you understand that you aren't omnipotent unless you're omnipotent everywhere? There is only 1 omnipotent being, anywhere.I sure can say that the Presence has no power over LT. Don't blame me for DC's God being portrayed as a false omnipotent, blame the writers. The Presence being "omnipotent in DC" doesn't stack up against a being who embodies necessity. Presence gets no mercy here, it is what it is.
I'm not saying Presence holds no power over LT because he's a Marvel character, I'm saying Presence holds no power over LT because necessity > creations (team 1). They don't have what is required to win, because LT embodies it. For team 1 to rely on Presence's false omnipotence will short change them for a harsh stomping courtesy of the LT.
And who, according to you, is that 1 omnipotent?
The LT may embody necessity in Marvel, but in DC it was the Presence who created the concept of necessity from nothing and who is necessity.
the creator of all is that truly omnipotent being, whether you call it Christ, God, Allah, doesn't matter. The most high, the most significant, is the creator of all.
For writers to say that Presence or w/e is omnipotent is bogus. I don't see it as a complexity, I see it as desperation. Marvels hierarchy is more complex than DC, simply because it forces readers to open their minds as to how the structure of concepts function. Both companies try to project real world possibilities, but DC fails because it goes too far by projecting this false god. That being did not create DC, writers did.
So like you say, Presence embodies necessity or w/e *IN DC.* LT embodies necessity anywhere he exists, so for this thread, he is necessity and should be able to alter what Presence perceives as necessary with his judgement. It'll be necessary for Presence to go right on back to DC with a loss under his belt.
When Presence and LT meet each other, Presence being "omnipotent" is thrown right out of the window because it did not create LT or the energies that LT will use to put Presence down.
i guess a lot of you seem to think that for this battle, Presence's "omnipotence" somehow applies to LT as the maker of everything when that is clearly not the case.