KMC Title Belt Championship Battlezone

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Fair enough. 👆

I'll likely have a ban on certain powers like most BZ tournaments, but if someone can successfully argue that their metas when combined equal something grossly OP'd, more power to them. 👆

As I said, I'm not entirely too creative when it comes to that format, but I do like reading the theories others come up with.

One of the funniest amalgam ideas I've ever seen was someone who picked a rookie Green Lantern and a base-human Hal Jordan (no ring) to amalgamate them and get his feats without having to draft a HH character.

Amalgams are silly as sh*t. I find them amusing, but generally hate having to debate with them. If you don't go for broke, it's a guarantee that someone else has you beat. For example, I wouldn't even consider entering a meta amalgam tourney if I couldn't make a combo that I thought could challenge Thor/Surfer, which is an intense amount of pressure to mix evidence with BS. This 1v1 formula is wonderful by comparison, imo. Confusing as my match with leo was, it would've been 10x that if we had amalgams.

Originally posted by Digi
One of the funniest amalgam ideas I've ever seen was someone who picked a rookie Green Lantern and a base-human Hal Jordan (no ring) to amalgamate them and get his feats without having to draft a HH character.

Did he get away with it?

Amalgams are silly as sh*t. I find them amusing, but generally hate having to debate with them. If you don't go for broke, it's a guarantee that someone else has you beat. For example, I wouldn't even consider entering a meta amalgam tourney if I couldn't make a combo that I thought could challenge Thor/Surfer, which is an intense amount of pressure to mix evidence with BS. This 1v1 formula is wonderful by comparison, imo. Confusing as my match with leo was, it would've been 10x that if we had amalgams.

If I had ever used my Quiz+Brainiac+Amadeus Cho Amalgam in a tournament I would probably have been kicked out for cheating with my strategy 😛

Originally posted by Digi
One of the funniest amalgam ideas I've ever seen was someone who picked a rookie Green Lantern and a base-human Hal Jordan (no ring) to amalgamate them and get his feats without having to draft a HH character.

That's just dumb.

Originally posted by Digi
It's not easy, but it's possible. Blair's Jubilee + Gene "Unlocker" combo in a past tourney was something he argued as having high-level matter manip. powers that put anyone outside of maybe Surfer to shame at HH or lower.

facepalm

That was Darkcrawlers idea. He wanted to make Jubilee more powerful by using Synch. What no one seems to have understood is that at her base, without any amp, she could blow up subatomic particles - including from organic beings. Anyways, that amalgam wasn't my creation.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Did he get away with it?

I think it got blocked due to some rule or other. Still, it was good for some lulz.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
That was Darkcrawlers idea. He wanted to make Jubilee more powerful by using Synch. What no one seems to have understood is that at her base, without any amp, she could blow up subatomic particles - including from organic beings. Anyways, that amalgam wasn't my creation.

Ah, sorry then. I could've sworn it was yours. My bad.

Hey, remember when some genius amalgamated Thor, Quasar and The Flash?

That guy was AWESOME!

lmao @ ringless Hal + rookie GL amalgam.

What tier would Backlash belong to? High street/low meta😃?

I'm game for someone on the level..

From what I know, I think Low Meta is appropriate, but I'm no expert on the character.

What would be the max power output for low meta?

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
What would be the max power output for low meta?

Well, it's all kinda subjective. There's no defined line. But the easiest way would probably be to look at others in the tier.

Would he beat Spider-Man? If so, he's probably mid. Wolverine? Same deal.

Once you get outside, say, Spidey's rogues in terms of power output, you're close to mid (heck, I think Electro was listed as mid originally). Many low metas are simply characters with some base level of "power" (i.e. not just fighting skill).

...

Much as I loathe referencing an imperfect, outdated thread, here's the old list:
3-D Man, Ambrose Chase, Angel, Arachne, Arana, Azrael, Beast, Black Canary, Black Tarantula, Blade, Blue Beetle (Dan Garrett), Bruenor Battlehammer, Century, Charcoal, Charlie 27, Constrictor, Creeper, Cyber, Dagger, Deadpool, Deathlok, Deathstroke the Terminator, Doc Ock, Drizzt Do'Urden, Elixer, Falcon, Firehawk, Gambit, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Iron Fist, Jakita Wagner, Karnak, Kid Devil, Killer Croc, Klaw, Lady Deathstrike, Longshot, Luke Cage, Man-Bat, Marrina (Normal), Mercury, Midnighter, Mister Hyde, Multiple Man, Mysterio, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nuke, Orka Humbug, Prometheus, Protocide, Puck, Puma, Rage, Sabretooth, Shang Chi, Silver Samurai, Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Swift, Thunder Cats, Tombstone, Triathalon, Vance Astro, Vanguard, Vermin, Vulture, Warpath, Wildchild, Wizard, Wulfgar, X-23

...keep in mind this has not been touched for several years, and was debated even then.

Yeah, I'd argue some people be moved up and some people be moved down on that list.

Of course you would. So would everyone. But then you look at mid, and moving some from low to mid makes them seem OP and you start wondering about moving them to high. Which starts the discussion of where we draw the line between tiers, and if it's ok to have "sub-tiers" within them since not everyone is equal within tiers. Then 8 others without full knowledge of the characters or tiers chime in to muddy up the whole debate. And then someone brings up Thanos and the entire conversation is lost. I end up making a determination on the character that will be called biased, or at least not thorough/objective by whoever I disagree with, and end up getting 5 PMs a week asking me a question (or demanding justification) on something in "my" list. And anyone it was intended to help will be scan-blitzed out of the thread while people debate whether or not the newest IM armor is low herald.

So. That's kinda the point. It's a rough guideline, or was, but nothing more. It remains a blessing and a curse, because it created a shared vocabulary for the forums and went a long way toward standardizing tournament levels, which is cool. But then when it gets referenced, it remains a hotbed for fruitless armchair quarterbacking, so to speak.

And in some ways, the forum has grown up. But, for example, Hulk was originally listed as low herald, and eventually made his way to mid. Imagine the ****storm if the thread were reopened in today's KMC.

i still think the advantages have far outweighed the problems. and i still think a knolwdegeable committee could be formed to update it a little bit, but primarily to add some of the more recent characters to the list.

Originally posted by leonidas
i still think the advantages have far outweighed the problems. and i still think a knolwdegeable committee could be formed to update it a little bit, but primarily to add some of the more recent characters to the list.

So you want to government up KMC? 😂

Joking aside, a knolwdegable knowledgeable committee might be a good thing. 👆

For example: Digi, Jake, Leo, Smurph, Galan, KM, and if you guys want it, myself.

I think we would make a great committee

Originally posted by Blair Wind
So you want to government up KMC? 😂

Joking aside, a knolwdegable knowledgeable committee might be a good thing. 👆

For example: Digi, Jake, Leo, Smurph, Galan, KM, and if you guys want it, myself.

I think we would make a great committee

mmm

....

😈 I'm in.

To what end, though? Everyone has their own ideas, so creating anything that's anywhere near definitive or standardized is impossible. And the lack of new traffic means that you wouldn't really be educating newer members, just giving the current ones something to complain about and disagree with.

We already have tier names and general levels, and anyone who jumps on the forums and posts will figure them out in a few months. A few names are enough to give someone an idea of the rough power level of a tier. 40 more won't make it any clearer, and if anything will start adding unanswerable questions to the mix (what's the regeneration/healing limit on {insert tier}? Do we count PIS? Who decides which things are PIS?).

I just can't see it doing anything more constructive. I took a fair amount of flak when I closed the thread, and my general response was "Well, make your own list. You'll be much happier with it."

I don't want to come across as overly negative about this. I'm just being honest. The whole idea that fuels debate is that power levels of characters aren't definite. Making a thread to categorize them was, in practice, like taking every petty argument in the vs. forum and putting them all into one thread. And also like trying to grab thin air, because it's an ultimately doomed premise to try to lock down every character into just a single tier.

Spider-Man can hang with high metas or lose to mid streets depending on the writers, situation, feats, etc. No PIS, no CIS. He can provably, repeatedly, be anything in that range. There isn't a "right" answer. Try proving he doesn't lose to Cap given their fights, or that he wouldn't whup 75% of mid meta given his better feats. You can't, and that's the point. It's what we too often don't want to admit. Characters don't have a power level. You provide a rough power "area" based on a few characters for tourneys or newbies, and you let subjectivity reign, because objectivity is impossible.

That just means we should all spam Newjak with our pms instead.

Digi‘s getting really cynical in his old age ... anyone remember when he used to be fun?

😛

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
That just means we should all spam Newjak with our pms instead.

Meh. Your problem. My hands are washed.

srug

Originally posted by Scoobless
Digi‘s getting really cynical in his old age ... anyone remember when he used to be fun?

😛

I'm way more fun irl these days than I used to be. My cynicism is entirely toward the internet.

Working on your next halloween costume yet?