Annihilators vs. Gods

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
It took him three pages to absorb Presence and left him in a state where he was still functional.

On the other hand, Thor was extremely pissed and probably wanted the Presence to suffer as he thought the Avengers were dead. He left him alive -just barely- because the Red Guardian said she could reverse the process.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Because Thor's only done it twice in like a 40 years history, and one involved radiation that was going to kill the whole Avengers.

That's not true.

Also, I'm assuming hoping you're referring to purely Thor draining actual opponents of their power and not just energy in general. Otherwise that's just crazy talk.

Would Thor draining the shield of Magneto and Mjolnir storing a portion of energy from each collective pantheon count? He stopped at Magneto's shield and the Skyfathers gave the energy, but if we're discussing Thor's capability -not willingness- to manipulate the energy of an organic who didn't initiate an attack, it's support.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
On the other hand, Thor was extremely pissed and probably wanted the Presence to suffer as he thought the Avengers were dead. He left him alive -just barely- because the Red Guardian said she could reverse the process.

That's not true.

Also, I'm assuming hoping you're referring to purely Thor draining actual opponents of their power and not just energy in general.

Would Thor draining the shield of Magneto and Mjolnir storing a portion of energy from each collective pantheon count? He stopped at Magneto's shield and the Skyfathers gave the energy, but if we're discussing Thor's capability -not willingness- to drain an organic who didn't initiate an energy attack, it's support.

Purely on Thor draining opponents.

A shields a shield. Pretty much the same as a blast.

They gave their Godly energy into a Godly enchanted hammer. Although how he got it was a lot more impressive. Beating Shiva and all.

I haven't once questioned Thor's capability. His willingness is a completely different story. CIS off is ridiculous for both Surfer and Thor.

Too close to call. Loki is a wild card here he could take quite a few on team two, but he isn't the most powerful on the field by a long shot.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I realize. But for Thor to take Presence out completely with power draining, it took three pages. I don't doubt he could have killed him though in that same page.

Purely on Thor draining opponents.

A shields a shield. Pretty much the same as a blast.

They gave their Godly energy into a Godly enchanted hammer. Although how he got it was a lot more impressive. Beating Shiva and all.

I haven't once questioned Thor's capability. His willingness is a completely different story. CIS off is ridiculous for both Surfer and Thor.

Also, it being 3 pages doesn't automatically mean it took a long time. The entire sequence could have lasted a minute and the Presence was very quickly rendered defenseless:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsPresence1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsPresence2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsPresence3.jpg

Alright, that makes more sense.

Fair enough I guess.

Off the top of my head, Thor draining and/or manipulating opponents of their internal energy include Marduk, Kang, Presence, X-ray, the Wrecking Crew, IIRC a Cosmic Vampire and there might be one or two more that I forget.

Yea, that's fanboy nonsense. Thor can use Mjolnir's energy absorption defensively but unless Surfer's about to unleash a blast that threatens the Earth forcing Thor to bring out the rape van, it's not happening.

Also, you guys were discussing Mjolnir's range and ability to draw in energy or whatever. It's shown that it can act like an energy vacuum, drawing in power from various -or all- directions at once a few times over the years. Scans can be posted if necessary.

There's probably more I want to discuss, but the wall of texts are irritating. F*cking nerds.

uhuh

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Also, it being 3 pages doesn't automatically mean it took a long time. The entire sequence could have lasted a minute and the Presence was very quickly rendered defenseless:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsPresence1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsPresence2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsPresence3.jpg

Alright, that makes more sense.

Fair enough I guess.

Off the top of my head, Thor draining and/or manipulating opponents of their internal energy include Marduk, Kang, Presence, X-ray, the Wrecking Crew, IIRC a Cosmic Vampire and there might be one or two more that I forget.

Yea, that's fanboy nonsense. Thor can use Mjolnir's energy absorption defensively but unless Surfer's about to unleash a blast that threatens the Earth forcing Thor to bring out the rape van, it's not happening.

I forgot the X-Ray one, but the other two had a lot to do with magic, which I why I didn't include them.
The X-Ray one involved radiation, the Ghaur one (forget which one he fought) he just gathered up his energy form and sent him to the sun. That's three times, five if you count absorbing enchantments.
Thor's Godblasted that many times...

Pretty much.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Also, you guys were discussing Mjolnir's range and ability to draw in energy or whatever. It's shown that it can act like an energy vacuum, drawing in power from various -or all- directions at once a few times over the years. Scans can be posted if necessary.

There's probably more I want to discuss, but the wall of texts are irritating. F*cking nerds.

uhuh

You're talking about his whirlwinding energy up aren't you? Can't see how that's relevant to draining someone's power, but I digress.

Meh, I just wanted to get as much shit off the table as I could since I think I'm going to work tomorrow... of course, I've been hearing that for the past week, but it might be right this time. Hope not

Originally posted by leonidas
not really. the whole thing COULD have been in ss's mind.

The last page where motherboard realizes that surfer tempered with her data says otherwise.

'everything he's got'. maybe some hyperbole. but again, it shows he's NOT defenseless against draining, and that he can figure out ways (see stranger) to avoid or defeat it.

lol

true, except YOU don't get to decide what's canon. there is no stance from marvel that indicates it, and the forum has no rule against it, so, for the purposes of any debate, the unilord saga is absolutely viable. darthgoober likes ss and knows him, that doesn't mean he dictates what is and isn't canon for the ss. though i'm sure he'd love hearing that you seem to be giving him that power. 😂

Yeah I know I can't decide what's canon or not. But there IS an instance which makes it non canon and that is the stance of parallel realities and merging of two different characters. Since the silver surfer which encountered unilord deviated from 616 surfer when he was unable to breach dimensional barrier, its not canon for 616 surfer. He later merged with 616 surfer sure but that doesn't mean it makes unilord saga canon for him any more than the merger of 616 hulk and heroes reborn hulk makes heroes reborn canon for 616 hulk. Oh no, I can read comics too leo and make my own mind upon it. That was just most convenient way to make my stance upon the mater.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Well, that's annoying. I just wrote a large response, and it got erased because I searched "Katy Pervy" in google and it used this tab to search it... and I was completely done in like three more sentences. 😐

Might as well take the time to revisit some things, while trying to remember what I wrote.

Time to end this charade.

Aww, all this for just me. I'm flattered bieb but its far from over.

Also, the response I posted from Rols/Ambient was actually in response to Darthgoober... which Abi should have known seeing as he found Darth's response on the same page. Rols seems to have convinced Darth.

I knew about it and no, I just was arguing with darthgoober on this topic on herochat and he thinks its non-canon. Doesn't matter to me as I can come to conclusions on my own, but thank you to remind me.

That's my whole point.

With CIS on, that shit doesn't happen. But since you seem to be a big fan of arguing CIS off for your character, I don't see why I can't play the same game.

If Thor is going into battles with power draining in his back pocket against Surfer of all people, then why wouldn't Surfer be zipping around spamming blasts... and keep in mind, that's something Surfer actually does in comics. I see you have a problem with many tactics being brought up against you, yet keep on going "well if Thor drains him..."
Do you not see the hypocrisy involved in your arguments?

Hell, a little later you say that Surfer using exotic tactics isn't the same, yet keep on the "Thor draining" path. You're not a fan of your own logic being used against you? You're not opposed to acting the same way as many Surfer fans I bet make you seeth with rage?

What? I never said that surfer can't zip around and spam thor with blasts. You want to argue that he can do it while CIS on or off, go ahead. I accepted that thor wouldn't use draining while CIS on and was just discussing a hypothetical situation where he decides to use it on surfer. You want to discuss that surfer spams thor in a hypothetical or real battle, I have no problems with it. Actually surfer fans make me laugh with their extrapolation. The only guy who is looking like in a rage here is you with all these "Let's end this charade" and "Surfer of all people" like surfer is someone with clean record against energy draining and how dare someone use that against him.

Keep in mind, I'm only bringing this shit up to combat your use of it. And your use of it was against me just saying they stalemate... oh wait, you're not actually saying he'll do it, but you also are...

You are? Could've fooled me. Of course not, you are giving yourself much more credit as usual. I was using it from the start

Originally posted by abhilegend
[B]Aren't both nova and quasar helpless against magic? The biggest gun in annihilators i.e. surfer is a ***** of mjolnir. If thor decided to drain surfer, its over for baldy.

But more on that later.

Yeah, we would see to that, don't we.

I figured you would since he's one of your "favorite characters", and you're not the biggest fan of Gladiator (boy was I wrong). But you're stuck in argument mode, when all that's needed is a discussion.

What? I acknowledged that surfer looked many times more powerful than gladiator already. I don't like gladiator at all. Yeah, you want to convince me that surfer is 50 or 100 times powerful than gladiator, go ahead. I'm listening.

But the overloading wasn't the only thing shown to look bad against Glads.

That being had Gladiator's power, and the Enigma Force (along with many others). The Enigma Force earlier in the series allowed Sue to beat the shit out of Gladiator, which on it's own would put it above Glads. Couple that with Gladiator's actual powers, and Surfer almost toying with said being... well, Surfer seems quite a ways above Glads.

Yeah and he was also shown to be flying from newyork to california while fully amped by uni-power and quite possibly at his top speed in two minutes. Suffice to say that gladiator was as impressive as always that means he gets beat up all the time. I already accepted that, bro.

Also, I believe that being had those powers before he had the Enigma Force (not sure on that), so if true, and if the Enigma Force increases his power IN ANY WAY, then we should be able to assume that it raised his limits to a considerable degree.
Plus there's the fact that he fought Surfer in an extended battle and still tried to absorb his powers. Which if he were anywhere close to his limits, this would be a very very stupid character.

Eh, I think he didn't have any kind of energy power before that, but I'd have to check that again. He was an energy vampire which aren't very intelligent people out there.

Surfer wasn't the straw that broke the camel's back, he was the elephant that broke the camel's back... IMO at least.

I can respect that.

I know you disagree, but I thought you'd like that since you know, "favorite character", and "Superman knockoff" and all... but what do I know?

I'm not sure what would you like me to say here. Surfer was shown to be multiple times powerful than gladiator? I already said that.

Not saying the absorbing thing is a fact, but him fighting the being with all those powers was however.

My point spoke for itself. Was he shown hindered before the fight?

I understand he was in pain, but that pain wasn't shown once to hinder him in battle. Especially when you look in all things involving Thor feats. He never stopped mid battle and went "ahh, my ****ing side", or "I would find this easier had I not been in such pain", and many such things along those lines.

Of course not when you consider who thor is. The guy has fought while his body was just liquid in an armor. Doesn't mean he was at full power.

Thor never attributed the pain to a lack of being able to accomplish anything. He was never stated he be weakened, or any of the like. He was just stated to be hurt. Does that mean his battle prowess was down, or that he was in pain?

Of course being hurt in comics automatically means a character is at 100% power unless stated otherwise. Oh wait........

It was acknowledged in the comic where they fought that he was wounded while retrieving the galactus seed. Here is thor saying that it hurts like hel, that obviously means he was at full power

There's also the adrenaline excuse but I'm not sure that flies in the comic world.

That's irrelevant to what happened in the Demogorge scene. He didn't take Demogorge head on, he attacked his heart while he was inside of him. Yes he killed a powerful being, but he did it by attacking it's weakpoint while it had no way to defend itself. Does that make it a be all end all feat? No.

Who said it was a be all end all feat? He still killed demogorge and the attack on galactus was a flying from one one end of galactus's head to another which while hugely impressive isn't the be all and end all of his striking feats either.

I think we've already had this discussion about Sun Eaters and PC characters. Thor would have never been able to accomplish this from outside of Demogorge, or away from his ****ing heart. You know, the small organ that's very vital to anyone with a heart, and evidently vital to Demogorge too.

Yeah, we did. Doesn't takes away anything from the feat that he killed a being several tiers above him. The way fraction is writing thor, I don't see him hurting thor being the indication that he is completely at 100% power.

And I'm having a problem seeing Demogorge in that scene as an Eternity level being as well.

Rage convinced me.uhuh

If Thor wasn't 100% than Fraction is going to need to up the ante when he shows him utilizing his full power. I mean, when his best feat is him supposedly being injured... not only injured but he outperformed his 70's self when his 70's self also cheapshotted a Galactus, yet that Galactus was weakened, and his 70's self was at full power. Color me dubious.

Thor is undoubtedly more powerful than his 70's self and galactus is too. You can be dubious all you want, but you wouldn't see a thor battling a hugely amped Thing and a hugely amped hulk by himself and coming out on top just after he got released from a prison after getting a huge thrashing from odin.

And no, I'm not saying he wasn't in pain, but I see no reason his power was decreased because of this pain, especially when his feats in the series were that impressive.

Doesn't makes any sense, if he was in pain with a wound across his gut then he wasn't fully healthy. Pure and simple. He just has a lot of damage soak.

If he wasn't at 100%, he sure as hell seemed close in power. Hell, if he wasn't 100% then Fraction Thor is most likely the most powerful Thor, minus King or Rune King. Him not being at 100% in that series would have been 120 in most others.

I'm not denying any of that. I'm just saying that he wasn't at 100% power, he might have been 95% or 90% or anything in between.

Which like I said, is a good basis for a powerup from Surfer's Annihilation escapades. Thor was written high, and it'd be hard to see Surfer matching this in raw power mind you, without some sort of powerup (as opposed to just the suspension of disbelief).

Or maybe fraction gives surfer the respect he deserves, just look at surfer in defenders. Mind you attuma made surfer look like a ***** in the same event.

One pis scene? In two issues he managed to show that Storm can rip apart Stardust easily, Storm can make Surfer reel from an attack while acknowledging he flies through suns, Johnny can knock Surfer off the board, Johnny can eat a board to the face, Black Panther can take a cheapshot from Stardust that's a constant blast and not be KO'ed, Gravity can hurt Galactus, Gravity can fill up Galactus, Stardust has to worry about two small event horizons when she's previous made one of the more impressive black holes we've seen in comics, Storm is fine after being shot in the back from Surfer, etc.

Surfer has been hurt by storm's lightning before and johnny has knocked surfer out of his board too. I think he made a lot of errors writing heralds and galactus but draining surfer with something that has worked in the past isn't one of them.

It wasn't just one stupid part of the series, and if you think that you must not have read the series. And if you think it was just one stupid moment, then you must think you're arguing with Carter here (which I'll get to later).

Oh, I have read it. You think the whole series written by mcduffie was PIS, be my guest. But then we would've to do that with a lot of comics out there.

Doom got the drop on Surfer and grabbed him from behind. Black Panther complete drained Surfer from absorbing one three panel blast... apparently a couple second blast is Surfer's full power. Does that sound right to you?

Doom also drained surfer in three panels IIRC.

What would you think should've been occurred? You are complaining over panel times here?

Surfer's entire power source can be drained by one quick blast through one hand. The easiest time Surfer's ever been drained is when even you admitted he was "restored" in power.

Oh yes, because Batman hasn't been on the positive side of what some would call "PIS". Some might call that PIS, I call that an average.

Plus, many people call that Wonder Woman fight PIS anyway... what with the super hearing, and him being bloodlusted, and WW winning, and whatnot is what the kids are saying.

Tell that to the wonder woman fangirls.

Could you have picked a worse example? Doubtful.

Or you just read all his issues so you could pick out low feats... don't worry, I've done that before.

Hahaha, really? You think I was going through reading all those comics before I even started to post here regularly was to find out low feats? You're just priceless.

From reading all of his series, you sure found a lot of low feats. My question to you however, is why haven't you posted any decent feats at all? Why do I not see you in threads defending him from a character "you don't like" ever? Why do I always see you arguing against him?

Point me to a thread where surfer appeared against someone other than superman and thor recently and I haven't argued in favor of him, heck this was my first post in the superman vs silver surfer thread.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer wins 6/10.

At some point in time you have to realize this looks suspicious if you keep claiming you don't hate him.

I mean, it's exactly like Carter (except better written) claiming he loves Thor yet he shits all over him in every thread. Is that what you want to be known as? Carterlegend [/B]

Don't try to turn this into another carver bashing argument. I like surfer, quite a lot and I've given him wins over almost every character in the the thread he appears. Just because I think Thor can drain him in a VERY special scenario doesn't means that I shit on his power.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
[B]Surfer is still supposed to have super strength and defense against space shit with just his silvery glaze... not that it's been used often in comics, but that's it's supposed to do.
Taking away absolutely everything gives him no connection to any power, and makes him much more human. Which I think at least Pak was trying to portray but you never know with that guy.

Yeah sometimes it is portrayed like that and sometimes not.

Korvac also melted his skin off, and he still rammed into the bomb killing both of them.

You realize you just talked about what Pak was doing and then said something else doesn't make sense. Welcome to Pak 101. It doesn't have to make sense.

😂 You are right of course.

Surfer having all that cosmic power could be seen as an evolution, somewhat akin to the X-gene via added powers. Devolving it would turn him back into a "human". At least it makes sense in this guy's brain right here.

Interesting theory I would say but norrin wasn't evolved I would think. Do you have any on panel confirmation about this?

Lot's of shit HE does doesn't make sense though. I mean he evolved people by turning them into werewolves and shit. And he evolved Galactus by turning him into a giant brain. As far as I'm concerned, the Surfer example makes more sense than most of his history.

Yeah, it doesn't but I would still say that taking surfer's history and the fact that HE was using his powers later, its more of a case of power stealing.

Let's just take what you just posted as an absolute fact, ok?

You realize that it says restore, right? You can't be restored to power and stay at the same level. You're reinforcing my point I hope you know.

Yeah, it could be taken as fact. Yeah, I think I know what I am doing, go ahead.

Which means Galactus restored Surfer to a level that he was at previously, which likely meant that he restored him to his highest level, and the only possible permanent cut I can possibly think that could have happened was during his first appearance. Actually, Galactus says right before that an Earth woman was the cause of Surfer's will being gone.
http://i46.tinypic.com/34t22xy.jpg

So what level that would be in your eyes? When he first appeared or before he was depowered by sonic shark? There must be a level which he was restored, right? I just want to know what level would that be?

Couple that with "restoring powers" and it seems he's talking about when he blasted Surfer on Earth. So right there he's talking about very early in the history of Surfer. Which means Surfer was restored to a power level above what he's shown in a strong majority of his history, so how off would it be to call it a powerup? Not in the least.

I think you're confusing will with power here. He was talking about how surfer's will was damaged by the love of alicia masters which has happened many times in the past. It has also happened around the time when surfer went in the past with alicia around SS 141 and refused to become the herald of galactus again IIRC. Its too ambiguous IMO. The only way to determine if surfer has got an actual power up would be to compare his record against the opponents he's gone against in the past.

So even if he just restored Surfer, that means Surfer walked out of Annihilation even more powerful than he did when he came in. Which means everything after Annihilation was him being powered up, and most of what happened before Annihilation was him being weaker.

Not so fast bieb. If you're trying to push the idea that any low showing of surfer before annihilation isn't applicable to him anymore and only high showings are valid for him now then sadly its not the case here. Characters get power ups all the time yet relatively they all remain the same. Superman has got two official power ups since Byrne days and one after the last time he went against captain marvel. Would you say that he would beat cap throughly because of that power up?

Either way, it would have been a powerup.

Eh, like I said it can be argued both ways.

So...

There was two different eras of Thor being greater than Surfer. Blood and Thunder, and Surfer's 4th issue. Unless you think over two decades difference is around the same time...
Blood and Thunder treated Surfer like a flea to Thor. And Thor was more powerful than Surfer with Loki's added powers in the 4th issue (even though Surfer won).

I wouldn't say that. Surfer has looked better against many characters than Thor in the same time period like Wonder man, Hulk, Thor saying that surfer could've killed him with a warning shot etc.

The recent fights have vastly increased his performance against Thor. So much so that Surfer is actually seen to be able to match him, and even take his hits without using outside sources to try and prove this. Previously Blood and Thunder one shotted him, and he didn't even have to touch Surfer in the first fight for Surfer to admit inferiority. In the Fraction fight he is seen taking everything but the kitchen sink.

He wasn't oneshotted IIRC. Just stunned for awhile. Yeah, he seemed more powerful than before in fraction fight.

I was wrong, Surfer created a black hole before his powerup. My mistake. It still doesn't change much.

Between Surfer taking attacks from Galactus level beings (when he's been one shotted numerous times by Galactus before hand), matching Thor, dispatching Ravenous much more easily, beating the shit out of Skaar h2h, and currently doing a lot of stupid shit in the Defenders, he seems more powerful.

I can see that but he had showings that can match or exceed, these showings like destroying planets against Morg, destroying the body of thanos which bested both thor and thing at the same time, his fight with mephisto, murringo-mo and the likes.

Surfer had trouble with Ravenous before his powerup. He had a lot less trouble and even seemed to play with him a little bit while fully knowing his weakness. "I tire of this" he said, and then promptly destroyed the Curr's and Ravenous' will.

I would say that this was a lot more due to the his mindset than power.

Also, Ronan beat Ravenous when Ravenous wasn't connected to his Currs via Super Skrull just killed them. That would have made Ravenous quite a bit weaker as the Currs supplied the power. I'm sure you'll question me, but I'll give my reasons.
Here Surfer states that the Currs are the ones supplying the power:
http://i47.tinypic.com/w70lsy.jpg

And here is Skrull killing the Currs on Ravenous right before Ronan breaks his face:
http://i47.tinypic.com/a0gy9z.jpg

Ah, I missed that. My mistake.

Ronan did not beat a full power Ravenous. Surfer did, twice (well, the second time he cut him off from the Currs himself). Plus, it took Ronan's most powerful attack to beat him. The guy smashed his hammer over his face. That wasn't just a hammer shot.

Yeah, I missed that.

Well, you already posted that Surfer got "restored" in power so I can't fathom why you're going against a powerup still.
And yes he's getting more respect from writers as well, but that doesn't mean his in comic explanation of a power up is overuled.

I'm just curious to know what this restored power level for surfer is.

How about you use feats where Thor's actually drained characters?

I already presented those.

It took him three pages to absorb Presence and left him in a state where he was still functional.

Surely you wouldn't like to measure time by page count. And?

He drained Kang quickly, however Kang was gloating about radiating energy that would kill the Avengers, and he overloaded Kang with the ten fold energy he unleashed back at him... and then Kang escaped. He also didn't seem to absorb too much from Kang as well.

I didn't even used Kang as an example so there's that.

He also drained power from... oh no wait, he didn't.

There's two times... you really think twice over 40 years is viable enough to bring it up in battle against a guy he's fought many times and never used it against him? At least give an actual reason that Thor would absorb him other than "Surfer gets drained, Thor drain once or twice". Maybe if Surfer was radiating energy or radiation, or something of the sort, but just regular Surfer? Not a chance. Not in character.

Where did you get the idea that I'm using this as a tactic Thor is even going to use in this fight when I have already said that its very OOC for thor. Maybe you should read my posts again. I'm talking about a hypothetical scenario IF thor tried to use it as a tactic. Maybe 1% chance of it happening in a regular fight.

Two characters... that's your trump card. Seriously.

Not really.

You're not saying, but you are saying, and then you're not saying, but also don't forget that you're saying.

Yeah, that's me.

If you're not saying, then why the **** are you so heavily arguing it? You realize you got one argument going that stems entirely from Surfer's power draining resistance and feats, and another argument that stems from Thor actually using power draining?
But you sure as **** aren't saying it, amirite?

Maybe because I like to find new ways to make a match interesting. There are hundreds of thor/surfer threads here, this would be just one more of them.

If if if if

One more if.

You want to play the if game? If Surfer opens up a black hole, then that's going to be a huge distraction for Thor which allows Surfer to unload whatever he can. If Surfer goes astral mode and attacks Thor, it's going to greatly damage him. If Surfer starts blasting Thor from the front, and whips his board really hard at the back of his head, it's going to create a huge opening. IF

Good for surfer.

But, let's open up this can of CIS, and go with your "IF".

If Thor decides to drain Surfer, and if for some reason Surfer is standing still, then yes, Surfer is in trouble. Also, Surfer will be standing still as soon as he gets hit by the first sign of getting his power drained, and won't try and shield it with his board or whatnot.

Yes, IF it all goes to plan, then Surfer is in a real pickle. It's too bad he's not going to use it since we argue in characters here and Thor draining Surfer isn't even a blip on the radar. I could have probably just ignored it going by forum rules, but then we wouldn't be in this little debate.

😂 Why so angry bieb? I wouldn't call it a little debate by any measure of the world.

You know that feeling? Yet you're acting like the people who gave you that feeling? You know exactly what's it's like when someone says "oh Surfer just throws down a black hole!", so if some random fuddy duddy says it to you, it's open field in any other thread?

Heh, the only difference being that I don't go harping about how thor wins here 10/10 via draining.

You hate highballing, so you're going to bring out a very rarely used tactic to give someone the edge against Surfer! Does this make sense to you?

So much edge that I said that its a stalemate, right?

Beta's probably got a huge cock. [/B]

First no dick and then this?

That last quote by abhi and the response I found a bit disturbing. 😑

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
[B]I haven't seen Thor absorb energy from a target moving away from him that capable of very quick movement and not just straight forward movement. Have you?

Whenever Thor drains energy it's usually in somewhat close proximity to Mjolnir, still, or coming right at him, and it's you know... energy. Not a being moving around.

But you're acting like you got an ace up your sleeve, no? I'd like to see Thor drain energy from a being that's moving all over the place rather than straight for his hammer. I'd like to see Thor draining energy from something moving away from him at a good speed. No, it doesn't even have to be a being, let's just see him draining energy from something a good distance away from Mjolnir that's not coming straight for him.

You want to appeal to a no limits fallacy, then by golly you should have some proof to back up your case.

And to answer your sarcasm, yes, of course Mjolnir has a limit on range. What a silly thing to say. Mjolnir isn't a no limit weapon.

Also, Mjolnir being thrown at a big ball of energy isn't relevant, unless you think Surfer is going to get full drained from the hammer hitting him, and if you think Surfer is just going to stand there.

So surfer can move away to stop drainage?

Would this be enough

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatsCesium.jpg

What ****ing highballing is going on in this thread? You're the only one who's highballing or lowballing Surfer here. Boo hoo, Surfer gets highballed, it doesn't mean you have to start lowballing him in a thread where he's getting almost no props at all, or barely even mentioned.

What? Using one high end feat of quasar to suggest that "no way in hell thor can do it" isn't highballing?

You think you're being a neutral force in a thread where Surfer is barely being talked about and you're throwing ifs and buts all over the place and just looking for a reason to post low feats? You're the guy to balance everything out when Surfer is stated to "stalemate Thor for a period of time", and you're going to balance it out against none of Surfer's feats with a bevy of low feats?
Please.

I'm just trying to have a different approach to a tested and tired discussion. I also gave it a stalemate if you didn't notice.

You have to defend him against Thor and Superman? What does your code of honor say when Surfer isn't getting almost any props? You don't have to lowball him in a thread where you yourself admitted he likely splits... or God forbid, Surfer is getting any props.

If I saw him getting lowballed in a thread against anybody then I would surely argue on his behalf. So unless surfer gets a majority, he's getting lowballed?

I'm sure those wins are handed out with an asterisk. I haven't any doubt that the majority of those threads were you arguing against Surfer but admitting that "well, I guess he wins". I bet if I went to a Hal vs Surfer thread you'd be in there arguing that Hal isn't to trifled with and the like. Be honest, am I wrong here?

Yeah, I argued for superman when people are jumping up and down to claim that surfer beats him 9/10. I would post the first post saying that surfer wins in that thread too, right? Of course I would say that, Hal has the feats to take on any high herald and I would argue anybody who is lowballing him saying that he's getting steamrolled against surfer.

By like him I mean don't bring up low feats every chance you get and don't argue against him every chance you get. He's one of your favorite characters, yet you have a fit when his high feats are brought up, and look for ways to go against that? Allow me to be dubious Carter... I mean, certainly in no way acting like Carter. I mean, Carter loves Thor, and you love Surfer... you guys are just being true to the character, amirite?

Actually, I don't throw a fit when somebody brings up high feats for surfer. I only object when it is extrapolated into being something it isn't. point me to a thread where I did that.

On that note, I bet those pictures were freshly added to your photobucket, and you were just looking for a chance to post them. What better way to spam a thread with low feats than to do so in a strategy that "you don't really believe in". You figured you could tack it onto Thor having that one time where he absorbs someone's energy, and there we go.

Your assumptions are hilarious. I knew about those instances for last six or eight months when I read up on surfer. I only added them because of a debate on herochat with goober.

A reason to post a bunch of low feats!

Character ownage thread is here for just that.

I mean, look at how fair and honest you're being when you're combatting all the highballing!

Of course, bieb.

Does that look like a post from a guy who likes Surfer? Or does it look like a post from a Surfer hater?

Or... or... or... does that look like a guy who collected a bunch of low feats and was just itching to post them?

Good theory, bieb. Just answer this, why would I go for collecting some low feats when I know that it would be OOC for most characters in herald category to use energy drainage on surfer. If I was as desperate as you make me out to be, I would've posted them in character ownage first to enjoy commenting how pathetic surfer is, right since you know I hate surfer.

No, because Thor's never done it in like the 7 battles they had with each other, duh. Because Thor's only done it twice in like a 40 years history, and one involved radiation that was going to kill the whole Avengers.

Obviously you didn't read my posts.

It isn't because it's happened to Surfer before. I'm not saying Surfer can't be drained (although I hope it'd be harder now), I'm saying that Thor isn't going to do it because it's not in character.

Yeah, you didn't read my posts.

Actually, you want to hear something sad? Thor's actually Godblasted more times than he's drained people. If you're going to argue Thor drains people just because it might work, then you might as well start spamming "Godblast" in threads.

Oh ya, old toolbox Thor could never beat Superman. Thor with his millions of powers... how naive of me to say his name.

I was bringing up Hulk because Thor it's Thor most common opponent and Thor could easily take Hulk out in something he's actually used many times. Yet you don't see people clamoring for Thor to BFR Hulk. If you don't see a correlation between this and Surfer, then I don't know what to tell you.
Actually, Hulk vs Thor is way worse since Thor has actually teleported Hulk before, and fought more battles. He's fought numerous Surfer ones as well, and never drained him (mind you, he has a lot fewer draining feats against other characters than he does BFR feats).

Go in a hulk vs thor thread and all the thor fanboys would argue that he could take out hulk easily by BFR, I don't know which Thor vs hulk thread you are referencing here.. Hulk is easily the most lowballed character on KMC. i just wish I could give a dman about hulk to do something about it after seeing carver's lowballing of other characters and highballing of hulk.

Same thing, but on a lesser level. Just because "Hulk" was mentioned, doesn't mean you have to go full on "he's not in this thread, I shall ignore him". That's all too often a cop out I see for many debators.

Not at all.

You're arguing non stop that it isn't likely, at the same time you keep saying if, he could, and doesn't mean he can't do it. Do you not see a conflict there? You're acting like a victim when you keep ****ing stating it. And what do you want me to do, just ignore one of the things you keep stating over and over to me and arguing with me about it? Do you want me to ignore you stating that Thor would drain Surfer or something while you're playing the victim card?

It wouldn't be so complicated for you if you'd just read my posts. I'm not arguing that thor is going to drain him at all in this thread in character. Of course you can ignore me, nobody is forcing you to reply to me. I'm not playing any type of victim card here.

Pick a stance. You either think he's going to do it, or he won't. You're the only one arguing this. There is no "he could" when everything is coming from your mouth.

Easy, he isn't going to do it.

If you're going to try and reaffirm your stance then reaffirming the tactic of another stance isn't going to do it. Yes you argued that Thor likely wouldn't, but you just said in the same post that IF Thor used it... there is no if though, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner this argument will be over.

Yeah because my instance isn't clear from the start. Oh wait........

Actually, let me employ your logic for a second.
I'm not saying Surfer would use it, but if he attacked Thor's mind, he'd be in a lot of trouble (insert low feats of Thor's resistance, some feats of Surfer's offense). Look man, if Surfer did this, he would definately beat Thor. I'm saying he would, but he certainly COULD. And it doesn't mean he wouldn't!

Absolutely possible.

Do you not see a big ****ing confusion brewing within that same post? That's you. That's what you're doing. You've contorted yourself into a spiraled penis.

I would say that you can be hilarious when you want to be. I actually laughed out loud at the last part.

If we're going to start using this logic, I might as well start arguing characters on the same level just start one shotting people. Something that actually happens in comics a lot.
Let's get a preview of things to come:

"Look, I'm not saying it would happen, but if Surfer hit Thor in the right spot with his board, he could certainly one shot him!
*scans of Thor getting knocked out*
*scans of Surfer throwing board*
This changes the entire dynamic of Thor vs Surfer as we know since Surfer could just one shot Thor if he hit him in the right spot!"

The amount of doors you open with your line of logic is delicious.

Hahaha, I'm revolutionary my friend.

One last thing, I concede here. This was a pain in the ass to respond.

TLDR 😐

Originally posted by Cogito
TLDR 😐

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, I'm revolutionary my friend.

One last thing, I concede here. This was a pain in the ass to respond.

I don't know if I should keep writing it or not now.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Haha, I just made a massive post that's almost done your first post before I hit refresh and did some other shit in real life.

I don't know if I should keep writing it or not now.

I'm going to go poop and decide if I want to finish it