Annihilators vs. Gods

Originally posted by leonidas
in general he does very well. so yeah, i'll need more.

those first scans show he was cut up. 😐 how you try to say he was being drained i have no idea. the whole scene is strange and he still retained more than enough power to win in the end.

Really

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-17.jpg

He directly said he was losing energy and she has the command of the energy in that place. Can't be more simple to convey that he was being drained. And? He was just powerful enogh to send a little bolt and was on the verge of defeat where he himself said that he was too weak.

stranger literally cut him off from his source of power and stranger is perhaps skyfather level.

What? He was pulling the power cosmic as starlight from his body as surfer said himself. How is that relevant when all stranger did was to remove the light from surfer's surroundings?

did you read the demonstar scans? ss could have stopped him had he chosen to do so--but elected to be defeated rather than kill him. he easily stopped the first drain attempt.

No, he said that he would have to slay demonstar to stop her, that doesn't mean he would have stopped her draining. That was just the bands of negative energy shocking him, not draining him.

as for the others--reptyl drained him after he was beaten. tyrant did the same thing to him. both kept him weak.

Who knows, an evolved and more powerful reptyl was easily stomped by surfer later. I don't believe reptyl could've beaten surfer in his weaker form, do you? Not comparable in the least.

dynamo city and dampyre? meh, low showings, but they mean little to me when the pre-iminent drainer in comics--quasar--can't do anything to a po'd ss, and when a ss who is also fighting for the lives of every hero in the world gives up HALF his power but STILL goes equally against someone like murrungo-mu.

A high showing which doesn't show that surfer can resist draining but that he has very vat reserves which on other ocassions have been drained rather quickly. Only because somehow murrungo-mu is a ***** who couldn't drain surfer because of his skin which has never stopped other from draining him. Eh, surfer was getting stomped untill he blasted that ship which housed murrongo's powers. I like how you skipped the pirates draining surfer.

no way in hell thor drains ss for a win. absorbing blasts is one thing. pulling a presence on him? no chance that would ever happen.

Only if we go by one high feat and ignored all the other showings. As usual highballing surfer, we've seen Iron man draining and taking out surfer but Thor can't? This isn't a comic though.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Thor absorbing every blast if Surfer was zipping around spamming blasts would be impressive, no doubt about that

Yeah, it would be and yet he is quite capable of it.

That would make him like 50 times more powerful at least... funny enough

Meh, let carver cry about it. Enigma-force doesn't always amp everyone to 50 times though and as it was shown in the comic, Enigma-force itself said that it doesn't work like that and after it was released, it said that it was a prisoner.

He was injured without it showing him being hindered. And him hitting Galactus that hard was like his greatest feat in decades...

Not really as he was shown in the pain before that fight. And? Thor just most likely killed Demogorge who was depicted as an eternity level being. Fraction thor is notably more powerful than his depictions in previous two decades except with odin force.

His entire history is canon, but throughout that he's been getting vastly better at using his powers, and also got a powerup since the last time he was drained.

Doesn't negates the draining aspect as T'challa and HE showed us. What, annihilation power up? That's one of the most ambigious powerup I ever saw in comic and it can be argued either way. Plus T'challa drained him after annihilation.

Plus most of the draining has been tech based, and I have hard time seeing Thor just reaching out and draining Surfer, especially when it's been shown to take time for Thor, and Surfer would have to be standing still for a couple seconds...

So pirate tech>mjolnir now. I don't see that too, but its a viable option for thor and I'm just suggesting that it can be done after seeing the bad record of surfer against draining.

Like who?

Ask rage.sneer

She is

I know you don't like Surfer, but arguing that Thor drains him in a CIS on forum fight, because I said they stalemate is laughable to say the least

I like the surfer a lot, I've read almost every surfer appearance before I actively started to post here. I don't like the wanking though. I didn't say it because you said that they stalemate here, I said it because its a viable option for thor who has done it before. I give Thor 6/10 against surfer with or without draining, so no big deal. I'm not arguing that Thor would just drain surfer as soon as match starts, not at all. I'm just suggesting that thor can do it IF he wanted to do it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He directly said he was losing energy and she has the command of the energy in that place. Can't be more simple to convey that he was being drained. And? He was just powerful enogh to send a little bolt and was on the verge of defeat where he himself said that he was too weak.

so....where was she actively draining him again...? he was somehow, what? sliced up? his body wasn't even together? in the unilord saga that didn't really seem to matter. that whole scene is way too ambiguous to say she was draining him.

What? He was pulling the power cosmic as starlight from his body as surfer said himself. How is that relevant when all stranger did was to remove the light from surfer's surroundings?

it's relevant because ss continually REPLENISHES his store of power FROM the ambient cosmic radiation all around him. he was surrounded and CUT OFF from his source of power. hence the reason why he was drained so easily--by a skyfather level being. 😐

No, he said that he would have to slay demonstar to stop her, that doesn't mean he would have stopped her draining. That was just the bands of negative energy shocking him, not draining him.

lol wut? if he retained enough power to kill her, and he easily blocked the drain the first time, the battle would have been over. and if someone is dead, it's hard for them to drain someone. and even after a prolonged draining effort, he still had power to kill. 😐 no reason on earth why ss couldn't simply block or break free of any active attempt thor made to drain him. or he could avoid the effort like he did stranger's, or it is at least equally his reserves would simply make the drain attempts meaningless.

Who knows, an evolved and more powerful reptyl was easily stomped by surfer later. I don't believe reptyl could've beaten surfer in his weaker form, do you? Not comparable in the least.

how did ss find himself in that draining trap?

A high showing which doesn't show that surfer can resist draining but that he has very vat reserves which on other ocassions have been drained rather quickly.

so you accuse someone of highballing, then......lowball? always two sides of that particular coin.

Only because somehow murrungo-mu is a ***** who couldn't drain surfer because of his skin which has never stopped other from draining him. Eh, surfer was getting stomped untill he blasted that ship which housed murrongo's powers.

lol so he was being beaten at half power by a being who beat--easily--all of earth's heroes and was said to be a peer of galactus and you count that as a......win for you somehow? 👆

I like how you skipped the pirates draining surfer.

oops. ss does seem to have some lower feats regrading tech related drain (though he's standing still when they do it and i'll check the context later) like the ironman feat. his high feats more than make up for the lower ones though, and he's never been drained while in motion, or moving at speeds forum battle would allow.

Only if we go by one high feat and ignored all the other showings. As usual highballing surfer, we've seen Iron man draining and taking out surfer but Thor can't? This isn't a comic though.[/B]

you're right--it's not a comic and therefore would never ever happen.

Originally posted by leonidas
so....where was she actively draining him again...? he was somehow, what? sliced up? his body wasn't even together? in the unilord saga that didn't really seem to matter. that whole scene is way too ambiguous to say she was draining him.

It was just an illusion of his mind as he sees it. He wasn't sliced up

Unilord saga isn't canon for 616 surfer.

it's relevant because ss continually REPLENISHES his store of power FROM the ambient cosmic radiation all around him. he was surrounded and CUT OFF from his source of power. hence the reason why he was drained so easily--by a skyfather level being. 😐

Ah, ok. It was done by dynamo city as well though.

lol wut? if he retained enough power to kill her, and he easily blocked the drain the first time, the battle would have been over. and if someone is dead, it's hard for them to drain someone. and even after a prolonged draining effort, he still had power to kill. 😐 no reason on earth why ss couldn't simply block or break free of any active attempt thor made to drain him. or he could avoid the effort like he did stranger's, or it is at least equally his reserves would simply make the drain attempts meaningless.

I'm not denying that he didn't have enough power to kill her but he didn't stop the draining just broke free from "suffocating grip of the bonds". Again my point wasn't that he doesn't have vast reserves and he can be drained fully by any other energy manipulator out there. No, I just wanted to show that he can be drained and weakened by it.

how did ss find himself in that draining trap?

Bar-fight. No, seriously.

so you accuse someone of highballing, then......lowball? always two sides of that particular coin.

Yeah, I am saying that you are highballing by saying "No way in hell thor can drain surfer because quasar failed and all the other showings are just low showings which shouldn't be taken into account". What else is highballing in your view?

lol so he was being beaten at half power by a being who beat--easily--all of earth's heroes and was said to be a peer of galactus and you count that as a......win for you somehow? 👆

I didn't count that as a win for me. I was just saying how someone like murringo saying that surfer's skin is impenetrable to his power as the reasoning he can't drain surfer is just laughable since just in the same page he shattered surfer's coating with a casual blast. I never said that surfer standing up to murringu isn't impressive but it isn't a proof of his draining resistance. He was fully powered when he beat mirrungu by destroying his ship BTW.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_58.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_59.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_60.jpg
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http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_64.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_65.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_66.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_67.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_68.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_69.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_70.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_71.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_72.jpg

oops. ss does seem to have some lower feats regrading tech related drain (though he's standing still when they do it and i'll check the context later) like the ironman feat. his high feats more than make up for the lower ones though, and he's never been drained while in motion, or moving at speeds forum battle would allow.

Yeah, he does have his low showings which is what I'm saying all along. There is no context here or in the Iron man scene in which tony drained surfer by an EMP and it resulted in a double ko IIRC. Surfer doesn't have many combat speed feats to his credit though and that's not how it works that if you've been drained while being stationary and never while being in motion which is wrong in this case as motherboard did just that, you are automatically immune to draining while in motion. You can say that surfer wouldn't give thor a chance to drain him.

Here is the scan with Iron man

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/TETRA001/norad35bd.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/TETRA001/norad48uz.jpg

you're right--it's not a comic and therefore would never ever happen.

Yeah, like I said if only we ignore all of surfer's low and average showings which are in dozen and just take one or two of his high showings as norm.

Surfer's draining resistance is fairly inconsistent. Never heard it brought up in the context of Thor v Surfer, but its food for thought I suppose.

Though some of his fans do have a tendency to hyperbolize his feats to the nth degree lol. If he punches someone "its the greatest punch Eva!" lol.

It's true, as far as energy draining/manipulation inferring with Surfer goes, he does have a pretty spotty record. It's caused him problems more than a few times over the years.

That being said, I haven't been keeping up with the discussion so I can't speak to the validity of any argument. Except Thor draining Surfer, I don't find that to be a likely possibility based on the way Thor's approached their battles in the past. Thor's the favorite though.

The two are having a battle in the Thor annual in a few months and it's being written by a huge Surfer fan, perhaps after all this time, he'll finally be shown to have the edge in battle. Although I'll be annoyed if that does turn out to be the case.

Originally posted by dmills
Surfer's draining resistance is fairly inconsistent. Never heard it brought up in the context of Thor v Surfer, but its food for thought I suppose.

Though some of his fans do have a tendency to hyperbolize his feats to the nth degree lol. If he punches someone "its the greatest punch Eva!" lol.

Surfer is the most highballed character on any forum. Anybody arguing that he has low or average showings is automatically a hater just as bieb labeled me.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, I'm not arguing that thor would even use draining on surfer, just that IF thor uses draining surfer is in trouble.

Surfer is the most highballed character on any forum. Anybody arguing that he has low or average showings is automatically a hater just as bieb labeled me.

😛

Originally posted by Newjak
Well you are a hater uhuh

😛

Who cares?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's true, as far as energy draining/manipulation inferring with Surfer goes, he does have a pretty spotty record. It's caused him problems more than a few times over the years.

That being said, I haven't been keeping up with the discussion so I can't speak to the validity of any argument. Except Thor draining Surfer, I don't find that to be a likely possibility based on the way Thor's approached their battles in the past. Thor's the favorite though.

The two are having a battle in the Thor annual in a few months and it's being written by a huge Surfer fan, perhaps after all this time, he'll finally be shown to have the edge in battle. Although I'll be annoyed if that does turn out to be the case.

Would it be that shocking?

Recently, they were showed as equals, in the past, Thor got more victory than lost against Surfer, so, if he falls one time, I don't think it be big deal at all

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, I'm not arguing that thor would even use draining on surfer, just that IF thor uses draining surfer is in trouble.

Surfer is the most highballed character on any forum. Anybody arguing that he has low or average showings is automatically a hater just as bieb labeled me.

High balled, but you have to admit that his feats can back him too, no?

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
High balled, but you have to admit that his feats can back him too, no?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, totally. Surfer is the highest of high heralds out there for a reason BUT he has his limits, vulnerabilities and low showings like everyone else. To presume that only the high feats matter here is just foolish.

But arguing with his low showing for his durability is low-balling him.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
But arguing with his low showing for his durability is low-balling him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was just an illusion of his mind as he sees it. He wasn't sliced up

so it was all in his mind? then how do you know he was actually being drained? he also thought he was sliced up. i should just go back and read the stupid thing myself.....

Unilord saga isn't canon for 616 surfer.

huh? where'd you hear that? news to me. if that's true, that's.......utterly ridiculous.

I'm not denying that he didn't have enough power to kill her but he didn't stop the draining just broke free from "suffocating grip of the bonds". Again my point wasn't that he doesn't have vast reserves and he can be drained fully by any other energy manipulator out there. No, I just wanted to show that he can be drained and weakened by it.

well, of course--it's pretty obvious draining has a chance to work on him to some degree. you ARE low-balling him though. badly. and some of your examples are just wrong, or are missing context. by showing those types of examples, you take the stance--by default--that anyone can drain ss and take him out. that in turn leads to replies that you deam high-balling. why is him ignoring quasar without notice a high-balled feat, but some space pirate draining him unconscious NOT low-balling?

Bar-fight. No, seriously.

which of course was my point--he was already beaten (as stupidly as he was) when he was trapped. the draining kept him weak. exactly the way tyrant did.

Yeah, I am saying that you are highballing by saying "No way in hell thor can drain surfer because quasar failed and all the other showings are just low showings which shouldn't be taken into account". What else is highballing in your view?

as i said--your reply implied a stance that you now seem to be backing away from. you seemed to be saying that if thor tried to drain him ss would be finished. i mentioned an instance where it proves that is not true--at all. to support your side you showed some instances that i find faulty, missing context, or just flat out wrong. there are a couple that DO support the idea that ss can be affected by an energy drain though--by beings who are significantly below ss's own level--yet you DON'T see that as low-balling. i find that strange.

I didn't count that as a win for me. I was just saying how someone like murringo saying that surfer's skin is impenetrable to his power as the reasoning he can't drain surfer is just laughable since just in the same page he shattered surfer's coating with a casual blast. I never said that surfer standing up to murringu isn't impressive but it isn't a proof of his draining resistance. He was fully powered when he beat mirrungu by destroying his ship BTW.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_58.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_59.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_60.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_61.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_62.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_63.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_64.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_65.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_66.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_67.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_68.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_69.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_70.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_71.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_72.jpg

don't really see the relevance of any of that. the point was that this was another attempt to support the idea that drain attempt=/=insta-loss for ss. by showing some random space pirate draining him, your implied stance (whether you like it or not) is that ANYONE can beat him by draining, and showing and bringing up instances to the contrary is high-balling. i think that stance is ridiculous.

Yeah, he does have his low showings which is what I'm saying all along. There is no context here or in the Iron man scene in which tony drained surfer by an EMP and it resulted in a double ko IIRC. Surfer doesn't have many combat speed feats to his credit though and that's not how it works that if you've been drained while being stationary and never while being in motion which is wrong in this case as motherboard did just that, you are automatically immune to draining while in motion. You can say that surfer wouldn't give thor a chance to drain him.

he doesn't need combat speed at all. he has dozens of dodging feats. and that is exactly what i was saying.

Here is the scan with Iron man

Yeah, like I said if only we ignore all of surfer's low and average showings which are in dozen and just take one or two of his high showings as norm. [/B]

i certainly didn't see a dozen instances. i saw a couple. even the ones i did see would never be applicable in a forum setting.

can draining him have an affect? of course. would it be indefensible? not at all imo. he would have dozens of options for dealing with it. could it simply be avoided? absolutely, imo. to say that if thor tried it that ss would be finished is pretty ridiculous in, again, mo.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer is the highest of high heralds out there

baka

Originally posted by abhilegend
osheet

Who cares?

That brings up another discussion for another thread. I'd like to see a comparative analysis of their fights with foes they have in common.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, it would be and yet he is quite capable of it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Meh, let carver cry about it. Enigma-force doesn't always amp everyone to 50 times though and as it was shown in the comic, Enigma-force itself said that it doesn't work like that and after it was released, it said that it was a prisoner.

He was draining off a bunch of beings, Glads, and had the Enigma force which we saw was a sizable amount above Gladiator in the series.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really as he was shown in the pain before that fight. And? Thor just most likely killed Demogorge who was depicted as an eternity level being. Fraction thor is notably more powerful than his depictions in previous two decades except with odin force.

Eternity level... and he killed him by smashing into his exposed heart.

Fraction Thor is depicted above Odin Force Thor IMO. Not saying he'd be more powerful, but Fraction is writing him at a very high level. Which makes it all the more impressive for Surfer to stand against him "injury" or not.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Doesn't negates the draining aspect as T'challa and HE showed us. What, annihilation power up? That's one of the most ambigious powerup I ever saw in comic and it can be argued either way. Plus T'challa drained him after annihilation.

...

The HE thing seemed like de-evolution since it literally melted off his skin which HE seemed to reclaim. And that's sort of his thing.

Galactus said on panel he was going to give him renewed will, new powers, and take away the remorse. Surfer cut him off at the remorse part but never said anything about power.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/annihilationsilversurfer03page18aj1.jpg

Then there's him actually taking attacks from Thor (when his first appearance was weaker than Thor with Loki's added powers), creating black holes, smashing Ravenous right after, and whatnot. If he wasn't powered up, he certainly gained a lot of "will".

Originally posted by abhilegend
So pirate tech>mjolnir now. I don't see that too, but its a viable option for thor and I'm just suggesting that it can be done after seeing the bad record of surfer against draining.

It's about as viable as Surfer creating black holes, blitzing, and using telepathy. Maybe if something urged him to use this, but Thor certainly wouldn't.
I don't have as much a problem with Surfer having shitty feats vs draining as I do at the notion of Thor actually draining him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ask rage.sneer

Yeah, glad we agree upon that.

Yes, it appeases me too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He dodged the sphere!! Wow, I'm so impressed with surfer's energy drainn resistance.

Plus, with how slow Thor's draining has shown to work, Surfer moves out of the way or blocks it with his board.

"I feel my power slowly slipping away, I better stand still"

Originally posted by abhilegend
I like the surfer a lot, I've read almost every surfer appearance before I actively started to post here. I don't like the wanking though. I didn't say it because you said that they stalemate here, I said it because its a viable option for thor who has done it before. I give Thor 6/10 against surfer with or without draining, so no big deal. I'm not arguing that Thor would just drain surfer as soon as match starts, not at all. I'm just suggesting that thor can do it IF he wanted to do it.

If Thor wanted to, he could beat pretty much any character, Superman included. Thor could simply BFR Hulk without an attack in comics. He's got many ways to beat characters... it doesn't mean he's going to use them.
Basically what you're bringing up is something I bet you have a problem with Surfer doing in threads. And that's something he rarely does. Black holes, blitzing, telepathy, transmutation, etc.

Either way, Surfer/Thor is not ending before any of the other battles in this thread.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
If we're stretching the limits of what's likely to happen? No

Even if, it still would have put him at twice as powerful.

He was draining off a bunch of beings, Glads, and had the Enigma force which we saw was a sizable amount above Gladiator in the series.

Was he shown to be hindered anywhere?

Eternity level... and he killed him by smashing into his exposed heart.

Fraction Thor is depicted above Odin Force Thor IMO. Not saying he'd be more powerful, but Fraction is writing him at a very high level. Which makes it all the more impressive for Surfer to stand against him "injury" or not.

Oh God, I forgot about Black Panther. Judging by that series BP didn't even need to drain him.
Plus I believe he completely drained Surfer from absorbing a blast, didn't he? That series was tripe, but if you want to count it... I mean, he is one of your favorite characters.

...

The HE thing seemed like de-evolution since it literally melted off his skin which HE seemed to reclaim. And that's sort of his thing.

Galactus said on panel he was going to give him renewed will, new powers, and take away the remorse. Surfer cut him off at the remorse part but never said anything about power.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/annihilationsilversurfer03page18aj1.jpg

Then there's him actually taking attacks from Thor (when his first appearance was weaker than Thor with Loki's added powers), creating black holes, smashing Ravenous right after, and whatnot. If he wasn't powered up, he certainly gained a lot of "will".

Yes. It certainly works faster anyway.

It's about as viable as Surfer creating black holes, blitzing, and using telepathy. Maybe if something urged him to use this, but Thor certainly wouldn't.
I don't have as much a problem with Surfer having shitty feats vs draining as I do at the notion of Thor actually draining him.

No.

Yes, it appeases me too.

It shows he was keen on it.

Plus, with how slow Thor's draining has shown to work, Surfer moves out of the way or blocks it with his board.

"I feel my power slowly slipping away, I better stand still"

You don't like the wanking so you lowball him?
You argue against him in many threads, post low feats whenever possible, and never give him any props at all. If you liked Surfer, you'd probably show it, because your persona certainly doesn't say "I like Surfer".
Plus I mean, Thor power draining Surfer being brought up in itself is such an out of left field tactic.

If Thor wanted to, he could beat pretty much any character, Superman included. Thor could simply BFR Hulk without an attack in comics. He's got many ways to beat characters... it doesn't mean he's going to use them.
Basically what you're bringing up is something I bet you have a problem with Surfer doing in threads. And that's something he rarely does. Black holes, blitzing, telepathy, transmutation, etc.

Either way, Surfer/Thor is not ending before any of the other battles in this thread.

pretty much. you heard the unilord saga was officially considered non-canon somewhere? it was a convoluted mess, i know that, and i think there was some confusion with a spiderman book or something (can't recall all the details) but far as i know, it is still canon by marvel's standards at least, and i believe the forums's.