Originally posted by Robtard
So McClane is able to at least get through the door in Bauer's scenario.
lol, no he wouldn't. Knowing McClane he would probably try to crash a car in the building and then go in Clane-bo, only to get shot to pieces while the target escapes through the back.
McClane would not have a chance in hell in surviving in any season of 24, let alone have the skills, knowledge, toughness or intelligence to save America each time and that's indisputable.
Most people have watched all the DH movies, yet I can guarantee you no one supporting McClane/DH in this thread has watched all 8 seasons of 24, which says a lot about how much weight their opinions carry.
Also, in order to use that "tortured to death" as a weakness, you must first be willing to prove
A McClane can withstand that amount of physical duress (AFTER taking a days worth of fights). And nothing he's done in any of his films suggest he could
B McClane would not find himself in that position, which is false considering that Simon had him captured and instead of shooting him, did some utterly retarded Bond death trap ploy and gave McClane evidence to capture him. This also leads to
C McClane has faced tougher opponents. Considering the stupidity from above came from McClane's smartest villain, that sets McClane down quite a few tiers
Originally posted by Sadako of GirthBut why put box office cash to yet another McClane immitator?
Imitator? I don't see them having much in common. Would Jason Bourne be an imitator?
Here's how it is:
One is a highly decorated former Delta Force special forces operative, later working for SWAT, DoD, CIA, and other elite Counter Terrorist units both in field and director roles. His experience, intelligence and skill set is immense which has allowed him to save millions of lives in one way or another countless times. He can speak German, Russian, Spanish and Serbian. Notable is his tactical and strategic mind that has allowed him to outsmart his enemies in a sophisticated manner. Also outstanding is his physical toughness, evident by the Chinese's inability to crack Bauer over 20 months of torture. Perhaps a good testament of his skills and abilities is that when terrorists and traitors know Jack are on their trail, they shit themselves.
John McClane on the other hand, is a LAPD cop, who has taken down terrorists and their plots on 4 occasions, 3 of which were not national-wide threats, which more importantly, is reflected in the levels his opponents operated at.
If Jack Bauer is an "imitator", he has far surpassed the original.
Oh and as I mentioned previously, people who haven't watched the 24 series need not comment. Makes sense I would think. The fact that people claim McClane is superior without even watching all 8 seasons (I suspect not even 1 season) of 24 by definition are irrationally biased. The fact that many of them are also outspoken McClane extremists doesn't help.
Yeah. He'd get knocked down. And unlike McClane's retarded nemeses, they wouldn't turn around, allowing McClane to get the jump on them. Jack would make sure he was dead
to quote what he told his own daughter after she subdued an assailant
"Shoot him again."
Non plan= Non Feat, and since "non-plans" consist of many of McClane's showings, he's just continuing to drop several tiers (and when he goes against Bauer, he's gonna be dropping several tears)
Bauer takes on military commando teams AFTER he's been in a plane crash and killed them all, took out a terrorist compound armed with assault rifles using only a handgun (and NOT getting shot twice, unlike McClane, who takes 6 hours just to clear one building with 10 terrorists and has to take a time out to cry like a ***** to a fat cop who can't see what he's shooting at, while Bauer would have probably cleared that building in 10 minutes, considering he's certifiably done similar to larger groups of assailants), Secret Service motorcades, Russian consulates, Chinese death squads, etc.
Jack's flatlining didn't give him a rest and in fact put him under even more physical duress, AND he still took out ANOTHER team of henchmen (these guys were just mercs, but still dangerous) (and note this is mere hours after the above mentioned-helicopter crash and taking out of the commando team)
Bauer outclasses McClane in every possible level (including resourcefulness). The burden of proof is on you to prove different. Show me some of these scenes with McClane tanking physical duress equal to an hour and a half of electroshock torture and a plane crash combined. I REALLY wish to see it.
And note that after sustaining most of his damage, McClane loves to take time to rest and cry like a bytch. Jack would find that inefficient
Stop trying to put McClane in a league that he's far below. I know you and Rob enjoy stroking McClane's other bald head, but don't allow it to turn to bias. You guys are veteran debaters on this forum, right?
Also on another note, maybe Jack doesn't need to suffer as much hits because he actually can win the fights he gets into, even without having to improvise a weapon at the last second (even though he's not above it, and will use anything, including his teeth, to win a fight).
Can McClane kill a man with his bare hands? Even better, can he run up a wall and break a man's neck after being pushed to his physical pain limits? Nothing suggests that can. If you disagree, once again, the burden of proof is on you
"Flat lining" means you're dead, ie no pulse.
With what McClane has shown, it stands to reason he could kill a man with his bare hands,(i'm pretty sure he has, I'd have to watch DH2-3 again) as most men can. Relies heavily on who the intended victim is . Running up a wall? Well, I don't know. Did Bauer Spider-Man it, or was this "running up a wall" something a human could do?
But to post on topic, what's Bauer going to do against a helicopter with a couple armed mercs when he's out of bullets?
Whats the deal with the "dead" argument, I think the person who brought that up just thought Jack died in the series finale lol.
But about the helicopter, what makes you think the scenario would play out the same, leading up to the helicopter event? It is almost certain it would play out differently.
I would need to watch the film again to comment further though.
See what I did there? Yes, now you go watch 8 seasons of 24 then come back 😛
Oh and as I mentioned previously, people who haven't watched the 24 series need not comment. Makes sense I would think. The fact that people claim McClane is superior without even watching all 8 seasons (I suspect not even 1 season) of 24 by definition are irrationally biased. The fact that many of them are also outspoken McClane extremists doesn't help.
Originally posted by Robtard
With what McClane has shown, it stands to reason he could kill a man with his bare hands,(i'm pretty sure he has, I'd have to watch DH2-3 again) as most men can.
Not with the ease Bauer does it. And saying "I think so. I don't remember" isn't proof. Try again.
You say "With What McClane has shown". What? Give me some specifics and indulge me about how he not only endured massive damage but operated at "run-up-wall-and-break-man's-neck (during which he receives stab wound)" levels after
Originally posted by Robtard
Running up a wall? Well, I don't know. Did Bauer Spider-Man it, or was this "running up a wall" something a human could do?
By "something a human can do", are you attempting to downplay the feat as to say that just because it's humanly possible, McClane can do it? Because I don't think so. It takes a lot of strength to run up a wall (and even more to snap a man's neck), compounded by previously withstanded torture and a plane crash. McClane's never shown that endurance. He would have probably spent the next hour after the plane crash resting and bitching to Al because he got some glass in his foot
It was a regular wall-run, but McClane would not have been able to do it because he's horrible in H2H (and prove otherwise) and would not have withstood the prior pain-limit-inducing torture and plane crash that came before it
Originally posted by Robtard
But to post on topic, what's Bauer going to do against a helicopter with a couple armed mercs when he's out of bullets?
The same as McClane. Use whatever resources he has around him to launch an offensive. Hell, he's more resourceful than McClane.
Originally posted by Placidity
Whats the deal with the "dead" argument, I think the person who brought that up just thought Jack died in the series finale lol.
I just brought it up to showcase his endurance. That he was tortured to such a limit and still is at his physical best to run up a wall and snap a man's neck
READ THIS ROB AND SADAKO
Yes, now you go watch 8 seasons of 24 then come back 😛
Originally posted by Placidity
Most people have watched all the DH movies, yet I can guarantee you no one supporting McClane/DH in this thread has watched all 8 seasons of 24, which says a lot about how much weight their opinions carry.
That's probably because the shouty-man-pointing-a-gun-while-averting- confusing-terror-plots shtick got old really fast (in fact JB was actually placidly played 1st/2nd season until they turned him into 'action man' for the ratings) while McClane has definitely evolved in character from the first to the fourth.
Plus bringing a tv character in a movie vs forum and expecting everyone to know everything about said tv character is a bit ignorant and biased. See, this is where the all vs forum falls flat on it's face, 'cause surely to educate us about JB and to ensure we have all information please detail every single feat for the entire 8 seasons. Too much? Any feat of McClane's is instantly accessible and remembered because of the condensed medium, with JB it really isn't.
But hey, this from what I know about JB's abilities:
DH1: Makes it to the elevator shaft where he plunges to his death after failing to grab the vent opening. I wouldn't say he's physically stronger than McClane.
DH2: Makes it to the runway where his lack of McClane strength causes his head to be crushed as he's struggling with the manhole cover.
DH3: He does well for most of this scenario because the plot is more his syle of operating but I don't see him getting out of the tunnel with all the water battering him, he'd be plucked off the ladder like a fly.
DH4: I'd say doable for this one if, and only if he has some sort of weapon and ammo left for the tunnel/car/helicopter scene. If not the free runners go in and waste him.
But that's exactly the thing. You stated it yourself. He was an action hero, and a much better one than McClane, in terms of, well, everything.
But the thing is, Jack wouldn't reach those levels in the plot because upon finding out the initial info at the same time McClane did, he would have taken far more effective and efficient courses of action
and before we continue, how far did you get into 24, because all 8 seasons have spectacular feats from him, so you may be missing some if you haven't seen all the episodes (and Redemption).
You seem to be vastly underestimating Bauer's strength, stamina, and durability. After being pushed to his weakest, he was able to run up a wall and snap a mans neck (and withstood a stab wound in the abdomen in the process). Do you know how much strength it takes to run up a wall? Go ahead and try it.
Now Jack did THIS:
Now remember. THIS is him at his PHYSICALLY WEAKEST. He's not only been tortured to his limits, but also involved in a plane crash, other fights (which he didn't sustain that much wounds in because he can...you know...ACTUALLY FIGHT), and suffered a heart attack from flatlining so long. And still he had the strength to phucking PWN that guy. And this is only the second out of 8 times we see him, in which he continues to get better.
And before you say McClane could replicate that:
1:05-2:08
He's taken far less damage than Bauer did at that point. And Bauer is far more skilled than that guy at H2H. Quite honestly, I'm watching a few parts of the fight where I can see Bauer performing an easy neck snap, unlike that guy, who seems to be an amateur in comparison