Darth Nihilus and Darth Traya - vs - DE Sidious and DE Luke

Originally posted by Pwned
Becuase the "mindless slave" thing is because he is a Wound, as the Exile does the same thing, she just doesn't subjugate her companions (its probably something to do with whether or not they fell to the Dark Side, but I am not qutie sure) while TK to hold a ship together in hyperspace would require quite a bit of effort, no matter how strong they are (because one slip up and it gets torn apart as soon as it drops out, because obviously there is no friction in hyperspace) So it may just be my personal belief, but I think that to hold that thing together he actually had to extend some amount of concious effort.

Perhaps, but remember that the Exile was also Force Draining the people she killed as well, without any effort on her part and while being unaware she's even doing it outside of powerful opponents like the Jedi Council should you kill them.

Zampano, I am not quite sure what point you are making, to be perfectly honest.

Originally posted by Pwned
Becuase the "mindless slave" thing is because he is a Wound, as the Exile does the same thing, she just doesn't subjugate her companions (its probably something to do with whether or not they fell to the Dark Side, but I am not qutie sure) while TK to hold a ship together in hyperspace would require quite a bit of effort, no matter how strong they are (because one slip up and it gets torn apart as soon as it drops out, because obviously there is no friction in hyperspace) So it may just be my personal belief, but I think that to hold that thing together he actually had to extend some amount of concious effort.

Right, and Nihilus is also a wound, a much larger and more powerful one than the Exile.

You harping on about how Nihilus shouldn't be able to do that while also draining planets and fighting or whatever really only emphasizes Nihilus's power.

N.'s telekinetic preservation of his ship during acceleration on interstellar magnitudes is, in my opinion, one of the greatest control feats in the mythos. His liberation of the Ravager from Malachor's gravity well is one of the greatest TK feats, in the realm of hundreds of thousands of units of force (i.e. Newtons).

Any post that downplays his ability is going to draw a response from me; the line "minor" should never be applied to his TK feats, because they are kind of a big deal.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The implication is that something petty like holding a ship together during space travel is so minor to Nihilus he barely notices he does it.

That's part of Nihilus's character, he is such a Force aberration that his presence alone holds a great deal of power, being around him saps your will and makes you a mindless slave without any effort on his part.

Why should holding the ship together be much different?

What's annoying to me is that most everyone seems to have a problem with Sidious' uber feats, but when it comes to Nihilus it's "oh well he is a force of nature, that's apart of his character". Well I call that bullshit. Nihilus is still a force using mortal; he is not a god, and he can be out-smarted by less powerful individuals and even killed.

Since everyone is throwing out what they feel is the intended message for Nihilus and making their case for him, I'm going to make my case for Palpatine:

Both the movies and EU seem to imply that Palpatine is the ultimate dark side user and it's living conduit. In his published literature, Matthew Stover constantly refers to Palpatine as "the shadow" or "the darkness", and Dooku even goes on to explain how looking at Palpatine through the force was like looking into a black hole, perfect nothingness. Not only does Palpatine have one of the greatest wills in the mythos but he also seems to have had a deeper connection to the dark side than any other sith before or after him. The Plagueis novel makes it very clear that Palpatine had a very deep connection with the dark side since child hood, way before becoming a sith. It's no wonder he is immensely powerful. Hell, the DE endnotes says that he is no longer defined by his physical form as of DE, but has become a dark side nexus so powerful that he can literaly rip holes in the fabric of space. If any sith lord deserves uber feats, it should be Palpatine. He is after all "the greatest evil the galaxy had ever known" (The New Essential Guide to Characters). The greatest villain being the most powerful villain is nothing new to pop culture, so what's up with all the complaints about Palpatine being the most powerful? It seems fitting to me.

Originally posted by Zampanó
N.'s telekinetic preservation of his ship during acceleration on interstellar magnitudes is, in my opinion, one of the greatest control feats in the mythos. His liberation of the Ravager from Malachor's gravity well is one of the greatest TK feats, in the realm of hundreds of thousands of units of force (i.e. Newtons).

Any post that downplays his ability is going to draw a response from me; the line "minor" should never be applied to his TK feats, because they are kind of a big deal.

facepalm
I suppose I should've aimed at arhael rather than you. sorry about that

Originally posted by NemeBro
You harping on about how Nihilus shouldn't be able to do that while also draining planets and fighting or whatever really only emphasizes Nihilus's power.

da rulesBranching off from that, I do not tolerate people saying 'You're a fanboy' as if that automatically renders everything obsolete and ends the argument. Earth to Debators, it DOESN'T. I will take it as a form of bashing and deal out warnings.

I detest KotOR 2. It is needlessly dark and more than a little condescending (pretense mistaken for profundity is always a mistake).

You're more than a little condescending!

Originally posted by Pwned
The problem is, the only thing we know about Nihilus is that he could do it. We don't know how, and so its hard to debate against him. I mean really, I doubt anybody could do that without some form of Sith ritual or other power fueling them, but I can't say that as evidence because there is none. All these Nihilus threads come across, to me, as a bunch of fanboys of KOTOR 2 wanting their favorite villain to win, same with Traya. So me saying this stuff is really only trying to point out that its not the complete stomp some people think it is, and that he is not all-powerful. Plus I enjoy disagreeing with the majority. Sue me.

I had this exact same feeling regarding people using 'Sidious is the most powerful Sith' quotes to end threads. You get over it when you learn how to argue against it. My point: Argue better, not bitter.

(everyone ignore my bitter rant 3 threads down, nothing to see there)

The implication is that something petty like holding a ship together during space travel is so minor to Nihilus he barely notices he does it.

That's part of Nihilus's character, he is such a Force aberration that his presence alone holds a great deal of power, being around him saps your will and makes you a mindless slave without any effort on his part.

Why should holding the ship together be much different?

Pwned and Zampano brought good points about hyperspace travel. Entering meditation state and expending full effort to hold ship together while in hyperspace sounds realistic enough for someone as immensely powerful as him and still impossible for regular Force users.

Originally posted by Arhael
The fact that he couldn't consume a mandalorian, nor mind dominate him does not support your claim.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
What's annoying to me is that most everyone seems to have a problem with Sidious' uber feats, but when it comes to Nihilus it's "oh well he is a force of nature, that's apart of his character". Well I call that bullshit. Nihilus is still a force using mortal; he is not a god, and he can be out-smarted by less powerful individuals and even killed.

Since everyone is throwing out what they feel is the intended message for Nihilus and making their case for him, I'm going to make my case for Palpatine:

Both the movies and EU seem to imply that Palpatine is the ultimate dark side user and it's living conduit. In his published literature, Matthew Stover constantly refers to Palpatine as "the shadow" or "the darkness", and Dooku even goes on to explain how looking at Palpatine through the force was like looking into a black hole, perfect nothingness. Not only does Palpatine have one of the greatest wills in the mythos but he also seems to have had a deeper connection to the dark side than any other sith before or after him. The Plagueis novel makes it very clear that Palpatine had a very deep connection with the dark side since child hood, way before becoming a sith. It's no wonder he is immensely powerful. Hell, the DE endnotes says that he is no longer defined by his physical form as of DE, but has become a dark side nexus so powerful that he can literaly rip holes in the fabric of space. If any sith lord deserves uber feats, it should be Palpatine. He is after all "the greatest evil the galaxy had ever known" (The New Essential Guide to Characters). The greatest villain being the most powerful villain is nothing new to pop culture, so what's up with all the complaints about Palpatine being the most powerful? It seems fitting to me.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Stopped reading.

😆 😆 😆

Originally posted by NemeBro
Stopped reading.

Canderous was fightning Nihilus cannonicaly. Which confirms that his "very voice caused pain and death" is nothing more, than hype.

No shit. It's a metaphor. I didn't see anyone on his ship rolling in pain when he spoke.

Nihilus couldn't drain Mandalore because 5 seconds earlier when he tried that shit he got burned bad.

In other words you don't mess with mandalorians as EU keeps implying. 😄

They're only a model.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Erm.. you is the one who is clearly trolling. I made valid points and you insult me. Facto of the matter is that Nihilus is basically a God of a compeltely different kind of existence to the human Sidious, and he's also far more powerful. You haven't made a veyr good argument why palpatine will just easily control him.

Nihilus should be able to solo this, and Kreia would be able to take Luke out of the fight probably anyway, who by Dark Empire is still not too powerful.

True 😉

lol @ Nihilus being far more powerful than DE Sidious.