I doubt Sidious could enthrall Nihilus. Palpatine has great psychic feats sure, but as we saw with Marek it takes him time to subdue a powerful opponent in that way and he can be interrupted. If this was not a 2v2 fight I wouldn't put it passed him to be capable of it, but I doubt Traya, who is also an accomplished telepath, won't assist her teammate should he come under mental assualt.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I doubt Sidious could enthrall Nihilus. Palpatine has great psychic feats sure, but as we saw with Marek it takes him time to subdue a powerful opponent in that way and he can be interrupted. If this was not a 2v2 fight I wouldn't put it passed him to be capable of it, but I doubt Traya, who is also an accomplished telepath, won't assist her teammate should he come under mental assualt.
Good point. 😉
Originally posted by BattlemasterThis is after the speed blitz from Sidious that kills Traya. Palpatine then uses tasty Force-Bacon to sate Nihilus for a moment. Then he murders him.
Palpatine could break Nihilus's ravenous Hunger, that is so deep and set that it causes him to need to feed on entire Planet-fulls of people and makes up his very being?So Nihilus has a quick snack in front of him - his Hunger about to be sated in a few seconds, and Palpatine persuades him not to?
By the way, is this before or after Traya has hit Luke and Palpatine with her own Giga-drain?
Anyways, when it comes down to it, Palpatine can dominate just about anybody. There is not much I put past his abilities. Besides, Luke is here. Luke as well could probably take Nihilus down, because the Giga-drain is a complete unknown on length of time and such and such, blah blah blah. Trays may not be powerful enough to take them both down on the first try. I mean, the son of the Chosen One and the most powerful Sith ever. There is some serious firepower there.
Originally posted by Pwned
This is after the speed blitz from Sidious that kills Traya. Palpatine then uses tasty Force-Bacon to sate Nihilus for a moment. Then he murders him.
Traya can strike with her Giga-drain in a second - I don't think Palpatine can cross 20 Feet in that time.
He gets struck in mid-air, stunned - and leaving Luke helpless to deal with the monster in front of him.
Good job, Palpatine. 😆
Originally posted by Pwned
Anyways, when it comes down to it, Palpatine can dominate just about anybody.
Nihilus is already dominated by his Hunger - which is telling him that he's a few moments away from a good snack.
Originally posted by Pwned
Luke as well could probably take Nihilus down, because the Giga-drain is a complete unknown on length of time and such and such, blah blah blah.
One second to stun, and a couple more to kill.
You are new to Star Wars, or just KotoR? 😛
I just haven't played KoToR 2 in over a year. Cousins broke the disc.
Palpatines speed blitz takes a second. And Traya had a couple seconds of time where she would probably have been building up power. We are using an imcomplete scene that changes depending on the playthrough for evidence, so we really can't debate it, honestly.
Rewatch the fight scene with the Jedi, I would say he crossed 20+ feet in a second, killing one on landing. And I think we can agree Traya is not so much a fighter as a manipulator, yes?
Luke.... Well, he's Luke. Unless he turns back to the Light in the middle of this fight, or he is enraged, I don't see him faring well. However, he could take down Traya. Especially since the Jedi masters did not seem prepared for a Force attack.
I am talking about the drain that can massacre everything, nothing to do about it. That is an unknown. Otherwise, he didn't even kill Mandalore or Visas with it. I don't think he will take down Palpatine or Luke.
Its cheating, but Sidious also has his whole "essence transfer" thing. So he just keeps coming back.
Originally posted by Pwned
I just haven't played KoToR 2 in over a year. Cousins broke the disc.
My heart goes out to you - that's never good.
Ah well, forgiveness is a virtue.
Originally posted by Pwned
Palpatines speed blitz takes a second.
Proof that he can cross 20 Feet in a second?
Originally posted by Pwned
And Traya had a couple seconds of time where she would probably have been building up power.
The amount of time needed to launch the attack never changes - it's one second.
Originally posted by Pwned
Rewatch the fight scene with the Jedi, I would say he crossed 20+ feet in a second, killing one on landing.
I counted around 15 Feet - and it took him two seconds - Palpatine gets close, but dies.
Originally posted by Pwned
Luke.... Well, he's Luke. Unless he turns back to the Light in the middle of this fight, or he is enraged, I don't see him faring well. However, he could take down Traya. Especially since the Jedi masters did not seem prepared for a Force attack.
They were prepared for a fight, Force or no - and were even prepared to strip the Force from their opponant.
Originally posted by Pwned
I am talking about the drain that can massacre everything, nothing to do about it. That is an unknown. Otherwise, he didn't even kill Mandalore or Visas with it. I don't think he will take down Palpatine or Luke.
You sound really confused. 😛
Originally posted by Pwned
Its cheating, but Sidious also has his whole "essence transfer" thing. So he just keeps coming back.
He can only transfer his essence into Passive targets (I.E. Clones, Fetuses.)
Last I checked, neither Nihilus nor Kreia is one of those.
Originally posted by Pwned
Palpatines speed blitz takes a second.
No, it didn't.
Watch the first half minute here. At 0:22, Palpatine ignites his saber. By 0:28 seconds, he's landed his first fairly straightforward blow.
This is the point where I remind you that Traya can TK him like Yoda did successfully, stun him, or drain him if he's not prepped to defend it. It's not been established what the prep time for defending against a powerful Force drain, and the Exile gets a pass because her defense is always up, part of her nature.
Traya
Weak in terms of lightsaber combat(due to age like RotJ Palpatine). Though, she is exceptionally good with TK as demonstrated by her manipulation of 3 lightsabers simultaneously. Although she did get stripped of the Force by Nihilus, I believe she took lesson out of it and became stronger after that. Otherwise, it wouldn't be her the main villain of the story. Sion was Sith and achieved immortality even before she was born, yet, he became her apprentice. That's quite an achievement.
Nihilus
I am against idea of Nihilus being mind dominated as he is pure evil. The only emotion is hunger. The only way Palpatine could, possibly, expose his emotions is by persuading him to drain Traya. But as it was already mentioned as long as she is alive, she can prevent it, unless, Nihilus becomes uncontrollably insane.
Luke
There is a fair chance that Luke might be easy prey to Force drain, if it is DE Luke.
He demonstrated drain resistance much later with Lomi Plo and Krayt.
However, I did find source of him encountering Force drain during rebellion era: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/S'ybll . However, I don't know that story and how he managed to overcome Force drain.
Palpatine.
I simply don't accept idea of him falling prey to Force drain as he is master of it himself. Having knowledge passed to him from 1000 years of Rule of Two as well as direct advises from ancient Sith, his arsenal of defensive/offensive techniques supposed to be flawless.
Overall, while first team gets advantage with Force drain ability, which is subject to a lot of speculation, second team has advantage on combat feats as well as immense Force potential.
Also, Nihilus' drain ability doesn't make him immune to Force attacks. For instance, Force push is not the Force attacking opponent, it is effect caused by Force - "launching a concussive burst of pressurized air". And Force lightning is not a raw Force, it is electricity. So unless Nihilus keeps his Force defenses up, he will receive full TK impacts. Same for Traya, if she can't deflect/absorb Force lightning, she is cooked.
Originally posted by BattlemasterThank you for your sympathy. That had been my favorite of the two.... 🙁
My heart goes out to you - that's never good.Ah well, forgiveness is a virtue.
Proof that he can cross 20 Feet in a second?
The amount of time needed to launch the attack never changes - it's one second.
I counted around 15 Feet - and it took him two seconds - Palpatine gets close, but dies.
hey were prepared for a fight, Force or no - and were even prepared to strip the Force from their opponant.
You sound really confused. 😛
He can only transfer his essence into Passive targets (I.E. Clones, Fetuses.)
Last I checked, neither Nihilus nor Kreia is one of those.
I was in a rush, let me elaborate: The Giga-drain that killed Katarr. We have no clue on that ability. The one he used on the Exile and co. would be a Hunger-Drain (thats how I classify ones more powerful than normal, but not much) which did not even kill Visas and Mandalore, despite affecting them.
When Traya drained the Council, they were ready for a saber fight, they did not actually expect an instant attack that would kill them. It IS possible to suprise people with a Force attack. It has been done a LOT. And she is the Lord of Betrayal.....
I didn't mean Nihilus and Traya, he would have clones somewhere else. So he goes to one of them, then he just keeps coming back. Maybe with the Eclipse or something. Maybe a bacon sammich?
Originally posted by Pwned
Thank you for your sympathy. That had been my favorite of the two.... 🙁
It's a hard game to find - but maybe they'll re-release it for the 360?
It could happen. 🙂
Originally posted by Pwned
I thought of it as about 20. Its a large office. And I am not counting the dramatic poses. They are not actually needed to strike a blow. That cuts it down to approximately 1 second.
Considering Palpy was fighting for his life against four of the greatest Jedi warriors in the Order - those movements weren't done for flair.
They were necessary maneuvers aimed at enhancing his movements as he leapt.
And I counted somewhere between 13 and 15 Feet visually - though it could have been 16 or 17.
In other words - it's close, but no cigar. And also 1 second too late.
So, he would get really close, before succumbing and dying.
A valiant effort.
Originally posted by Pwned
I was in a rush, let me elaborate: The Giga-drain that killed Katarr. We have no clue on that ability. The one he used on the Exile and co. would be a Hunger-Drain
They're all the same Drain.
Kreia uses a weaker, less advanced version that can still stun and kill enemies in a moment.
Originally posted by Pwned
(thats how I classify ones more powerful than normal, but not much) which did not even kill Visas and Mandalore, despite affecting them.
Nihilus never attempted to drain them - only the Exile, when she popped the idea.
Originally posted by Pwned
When Traya drained the Council, they were ready for a saber fight, they did not actually expect an instant attack that would kill them. It IS possible to suprise people with a Force attack. It has been done a LOT. And she is the Lord of Betrayal.....
They were ready to fight an experienced Jedi who had possibly turned to the Dark side - and strip her of the Force.
It's safe to assume that at this point they were prepared for the worst.
Sabers, Force. Etc.
Originally posted by Pwned
I didn't mean Nihilus and Traya, he would have clones somewhere else. So he goes to one of them, then he just keeps coming back. Maybe with the Eclipse or something. Maybe a bacon sammich? [/B]
The setting battleground is Dxun - if Palpatine were to perish there and transfer his spirit somewhere else it would be forfeiting; he would leave Luke at the mercy of the two Sith monsters.
Also, as Nihilus's Drain eats Force energy, Palpatine's essence would make for a very tasty snack - so he won't be transferring anywhere, except for Nihilus's stomach.
No, I ment the "pull lightsaber back to attack, see Mace do the same" dramatic poses.
They were prepared to strip one person of their powers, which I am fairly certain is also NOT instantaneous. They would have the draw the power out.
He tried to drain Visas and Mandalore on mine. That much I do remember.
They is a difference. Hunger is different than a drain. Drains are not as effective as Hunger. Becuase you can't get an ability like Nihilus' in the game that auto kills them, you have to use the drain chain
Perception will differ between us I suppose. I count 20 feet. And you are right. I counted three seconds between the beginning of the leap to the first kill. But thats counting in the stupid dramatic poses. So yeah, 2 sounds about right.
Originally posted by Pwned
No, I ment the "pull lightsaber back to attack, see Mace do the same" dramatic poses.
He'll be dead before he lands, so it's moot.
Originally posted by Pwned
They were prepared to strip one person of their powers, which I am fairly certain is also NOT instantaneous. They would have the draw the power out.
There was also three of them. They were prepared for a fight.
Originally posted by Pwned
He tried to drain Visas and Mandalore on mine. That much I do remember.
Your memory does not serve you well. You need to play the game again.
Originally posted by Pwned
They is a difference. Hunger is different than a drain. Drains are not as effective as Hunger. Becuase you can't get an ability like Nihilus' in the game that auto kills them, you have to use the drain chain
Lol... while you raise a good point about the difference between Nihilus's Drain and drains in general, Kreia has the same Giga-drain as Nihilus - only much weaker. She made that clear in the game.
Originally posted by Pwned
Perception will differ between us I suppose. I count 20 feet. And you are right. I counted three seconds between the beginning of the leap to the first kill. But thats counting in the stupid dramatic poses. So yeah, 2 sounds about right.
Yep, either way, close - but no cigar.
Palpy dies.
I still don't buy that Kreia can just spontaneously murder anybody ever. Why didn't she do it to the Exile? I bet that that their Hunger will only work on people about as powerful as you. It also needs some way to keep them still or otherwise unresisting, I would wager. Every time it was used the victim was not moving. The Council were standing there like idiots. The Exile was frozen in place.
When did she say she had the Hunger?
Pwned, your debate is doomed for simple reason that you entered her field by admitting that Palpatine can be Force drained and instead rely on such things as his speed and essence transfer. Losing his body with possibility to lose more bodies after transfer is way too much embarrassment for Palpatine.
Originally posted by Pwned
I still don't buy that Kreia can just spontaneously murder anybody ever. Why didn't she do it to the Exile? I bet that that their Hunger will only work on people about as powerful as you. It also needs some way to keep them still or otherwise unresisting, I would wager. Every time it was used the victim was not moving. The Council were standing there like idiots. The Exile was frozen in place. When did she say she had the Hunger?
Again, it's obvious you need to play the game.
The Exile is what's known as a Force Wound - that's what Nihilus is - and the only Canonical immunity to his Giga-drain.
The Exile decided she would punk Nihilus for lulz and asked Nihilus to Drain her.
He obliged and weakened himself severely, while she fell to the floor laughing.
And yes, the Giga-Drain stuns the opponant so that even powerful High Council members were incapacitated.
Again, Kreia didn't attempt to Drain the Exile because she's a Force Wound.
Damn, it HAS been far to long since I have played that game XD I apologize for that severe stupidity on my part. Its inexcusable.
Anyways, I have a feeling that a Giga-Drain isn't just done on the spot. It seems like it draws to much power. I bet they have to raise their hand still. And drain isn't going to be their first move, will it? The fight with Nihilus, he didn't just drain on the spot. Kreia never showed a willingness to drain on the spot, I mean she took a weapon after Sion. She could have Giga-drained him.
You do realize that I am just saying that a speed blitz is a viable tactic, right? Im trying to avoid the "W0rmhol3s LUL!" thing. I mean, he could just fry them with lightning. No stopping that, considering how they never showed any form of resistance to it.
And Arhael: Thats because I can't find a copy of the book where he shows a way of stopping it. So I decided not to mention it because I can't actually grab a copy and back it up.
Originally posted by Arhael
Pwned, your debate is doomed for simple reason that you entered her field by admitting that Palpatine can be Force drained and instead rely on such things as his speed and essence transfer. Losing his body with possibility to lose more bodies after transfer is way too much embarrassment for Palpatine.
If he is drained he won't be able to body hop.