But Vader's force powers displayed in the TFU novels was much different than Sidous.
For one Vader was shown to use his monstrous force powers in regards to his physical abilities, combat, and most notoriously for TK mid combat.
I'm just saying, CC seems to be Vader's strongest point particularly with his TK.
Originally posted by ares834
Remember Vaapad allowed Mace to match Sidious as it amped him off Palp's power, in a duel against Vader he won't be receiving the same amp.
This is an excellent point, mace was the level he was due to him channeling the maximum amount of dark side energy from Sidious and coverting it to light side energy to fuel him.
Against vader he wont have that massive boost, additionally Vader's application force powers in combat is different from palpatine...he wont be using force lightening or other more out of combat force based powers. Vader's emphasis is on amping his own speed, strength, and TK that is unrivaled.
Originally posted by Board Walker
This is an excellent point, mace was the level he was due to him channeling the maximum amount of dark side energy from Sidious and coverting it to light side energy to fuel him.Against vader he wont have that massive boost, additionally Vader's application force powers in combat is different from palpatine...he wont be using force lightening or other more out of combat force based powers. Vader's emphasis is on amping his own speed, strength, and TK that is unrivaled.
That doesn't make any sense. Vader taps into the Dark side of the Force just to move his body - of course he'll be receiving the same amp.
- and Jinsoku Takai is right on the money - if Windu closes the gap like he did with Vader's more powerful Master, then Vader is screwed. And he is.
No offense, but this is sorta a silly thread. Vader will have more advantages than usual due to his destructive nature and showings at this time period, but Mace can use his masterful experience and Vapaad to deal with that, find Vader's weakpoints, and BAM.
Vader dies here - either as quickly as Palpatine, or likely, a little quicker.
Of course Mace is the winner.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
That doesn't make any sense. Vader taps into the Dark side of the Force just to move his body - of course he'll be receiving the same amp.
No, it does. Vaapad's superconducting loop allowed Mace to match Palp's speed and power. Against Vader he wouldn't be channeling Palp's darkness but Vader's and therefore would match Vader's speed and power.
Originally posted by ares834
No, it does. Vaapad's superconducting loop allowed Mace to match Palp's speed and power. Against Vader he wouldn't be channeling Palp's darkness but Vader's and therefore would match Vader's speed and power.
It doesn't match it - it brings you over the threshold.
Vapaad + Vader's Power = Vader's power + Mace's inherent power = Power adequatly above Vader's
Mace was edged over Palpatine in power as they dueled, just by a tiny bit or two, due to his own inherent power, which kept Palpatine from killing him, and allowed Mace to put the time in to find Palpatine's Shatterpoint and strike it.
Either way it doesn't matter - if Vader is powerful as is being said, then Mace's amp from Vader will still be a powerful amp. So it's moot.
Not quite. The novel never states that Vaapad "adds up" Palpatine's power and Mace's rather it says it redirects Palpatine's power and seemingly all of it.
"Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center-And let it fountain out again.
He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt."
Nor did Mace have an edge in power with his duel with Palpatine. They were completely equal.
"Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse.
Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift."
The reason Mace won the duel is because of shatterpoint not because he had an edge in power.
As for Mace being taken to Vaapad's threshold, that's only after the lightsaber duel when Palpatine is throwing lightning at him. Not once during the lightsaber duel was Vaapad brought to the threshold.
Here is the quote:
"Kar Vastor had been the essence, the personification, of primal power, jungle savagery, and bloodlust distilled into flesh. Nick had never seen any¬one or anything to match him.
Until now.
Until he stood, unarmed, before Darth Vader.
As if being armed would make a difference, he thought. He could be tricked out with wrist rockets, a hold-out shooter, a pair of DL-44s, and a disruptor rifle, and he might just as well be carrying a pointed stick.
Vastor had been animal ferocity and menace, barely contained. He'd thrummed with the power of the dark side. His arms, legs, torso, and shoulders had been layered with striated muscle; he looked like he could have lifted a pregnant grasser over his head. One-handed.
Vader was as tall as Vastor had been, but probably massed a good twenty kilos less. He wasn't physically impressive in the same way; no musculature was visible under the black armor. It didn't matter. There was no doubt in Nick's mind that, were Kar Vastor somehow to be pitted against Darth Vader, the feral Balawai renegade wouldn't stand a chance.
The Force was powerful in Vader; even the dim wattage of Nick's connection could feel that. It was far more powerful than it had been in Kar Vastor. It had pulsed from Vastor in waves of fury, blasted like an open furnace. In Vader, it was—contained. Pent.
Waiting."
Originally posted by Pwned
I have argued (pretty successuflly, imo) that the setting for the fight with Vastor made all the difference. Vastor's power is irrelevant.
I'm not using that as an argument that Vader is superior than Mace. Hell, I'm not even saying he is. Rather, I'm arguing against the notion that Vastor is beyond Vader.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm sorry, I didn't realize Nick Rostu, the non-Sith, non-Jedi, was an expert on the respective power levels of each.
😆
- Good point.
In any case, I'll believe it, when I see the quote. And even then, we don't know the context of said quote.
Rostu could have been joking, or even high. 😛
Originally posted by ares834
Here is the quote:"Kar Vastor had been the essence, the personification, of primal power, jungle savagery, and bloodlust distilled into flesh. Nick had never seen any¬one or anything to match him.
Until now.
Until he stood, unarmed, before Darth Vader.
As if being armed would make a difference, he thought. He could be tricked out with wrist rockets, a hold-out shooter, a pair of DL-44s, and a disruptor rifle, and he might just as well be carrying a pointed stick.
Vastor had been animal ferocity and menace, barely contained. He'd thrummed with the power of the dark side. His arms, legs, torso, and shoulders had been layered with striated muscle; he looked like he could have lifted a pregnant grasser over his head. One-handed.
Vader was as tall as Vastor had been, but probably massed a good twenty kilos less. He wasn't physically impressive in the same way; no musculature was visible under the black armor. It didn't matter. There was no doubt in Nick's mind that, were Kar Vastor somehow to be pitted against Darth Vader, the feral Balawai renegade wouldn't stand a chance.
The Force was powerful in Vader; even the dim wattage of Nick's connection could feel that. It was far more powerful than it had been in Kar Vastor. It had pulsed from Vastor in waves of fury, blasted like an open furnace. In Vader, it was—contained. Pent.
Waiting."
Ahh.
Keep in mind.
1. This is a much older Kar, and not his younger, more powerful self.
2. The author is probably biased against the character.
3. He is away from the very Jungle he is an Avatar of - though if this were on Haruun Kal, and especially if this were the Vastor that Mace fought - Vader would be turned into a pathetic prison ***** for Vastor to rape every night.
Vader does not = Prime Kar Vastor/Jungle Avatar in any way.
That Vastor would sexually dominate Vader.