Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This is another non fight... Windu with easy... so much ease that why was this thread even made?
A "Non-Fight?" Really KT??
So the guy who almost stalemated TFUII Starkiller won't even put up a fight against Windu?? Really??
And Windu will just deflect all his Beastly Force Repulse/ Force Waves with ease?? Really??
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
A "Non-Fight?" Really KT??So the guy who almost stalemated TFUII Starkiller won't even put up a fight against Windu?? Really??
And Windu will just deflect all his Beastly Force Repulse/ Force Waves with ease?? Really??
You mean other than the fact that Windu has beaten better people than Vader and can use Vapaad for a clear victory.. YOu mean besides those basic and clear ponits?
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Mace will definitely win if Vader just uses his sword and not the Force at all, like Sidious did. 👆
Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
But Vader won't just use his Lightsaber. He WILL use his, as Darth Power called it, "beastly" force powers. I don't think people give Vader credit for what he has done. He, as the Emperor's enforcer, completed the Great Jedi Purge. Mace's style, as I understand it, utilizes energy that is used against him, like lightning or force attacks, but I am not sure it applys to utilizing the force to enhance yourself, Like Vader is known to do.
Tempest was being sarcastic pointing out that just because Mace beat Sidious the way he did in those circumstances does not mean he's guaranteed victory every time against any and every Sith Lord in any environment under any circumstance.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You mean other than the fact that Windu has beaten better people than Vader and can use Vapaad for a clear victory..
And what Mace did that easily?? In a non fight??
That fight went straight to Sabers because Sidious had to take out 3 other Jedi first. And yet despite that according to the novel and the script Mace almost lost due to just 1 Force push from Sidious.
So given that you really think he could fend off a continuous barrage of Force Waves from Vader easily??
That fight went straight to Sabers because Sidious had to take out 3 other Jedi first. And yet despite that according to the novel and the script Mace almost lost due to just 1 Force push from Sidious.
Almost lost and losing isn't the same thing. Mace was surprised by the force push but he intercepted it and took out Sidious only a few moments later.
Mace is no slouch when it comes to force abilities and while he doesn't have the force potential of Vader I think he's experienced and skilled enough to withstand his force barrages until he can find an opening.
Originally posted by Ofi-Wan
Almost lost and losing isn't the same thing. Mace was surprised by the force push but he intercepted it and took out Sidious only a few moments later.Mace is no slouch when it comes to force abilities and while he doesn't have the force potential of Vader I think he's experienced and skilled enough to withstand his force barrages until he can find an opening.
Originally posted by Ofi-Wan
Almost lost and losing isn't the same thing.
Yeah but that was just one force push. Imagine he kept his distance and using a barrage of continuous Force TK attacks like he was doing against Yoda.
Originally posted by Ofi-Wan
Mace was surprised by the force push but he intercepted it and took out Sidious only a few moments later.
Most Force pushes are by surprise. The opponent doesn't give a warning that he's about to use a Force push.
But if we look at say the Dooku vs Anakin fight in the CW series, it shows that Skywalker clearly can tank several force shots from Dooku.
Mace can't really say the same when against Sidious. And I'm betting Vader's TK is close to Sidious's.
Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
After attempting to push Windu, he sensed Anakin approaching and he knew he had to put on the persona of the "weak, unarmed opponent" because he was putting the same situaion in front of him like when Anakin was fightig Dooku. It was a mind game. I honestly think that if it was a straight up fight with no Anakin, Sidious would have won. Why wouldn't he just use Force Push to get Windu off of him and THEN blast lightning?
He wasn't faking that early on.
The big factor in their fight was it began with 3 other Jedi. Sidious didn't have the luxury of beginning his one on one fight against Windu with a Force TK Blast.
They were already ferociously fighting close up.
Originally posted by Arhael
You proved nothing.
Your speculations are outright baseless. Luke dropping lightsaber because of being "scarred" was especially hilarious.You felt need to turn peaciful discussion into aimless rant and personal attacks. You felt need to proclaim yourself winner god knows of what, when from the beginning I was just giving my interpretation as you gave yours. How can you take your opinions as facts, I am clueless.
You daring to call my logic one sided, when I backed up my opinion by many examples such as Kenobi sparing lives of Vader an Jared Hett. Marek refusing to strike down Vader and then Sidious. Starkiller refusing to strike down Vader. I can add to that many more examples. JK refused to strike down Vitiate and wanted to inprison him despite the fact that he was far more dangerous than even Sidious.
Aryn Laneer spared life of Malgus' girlfriend despite her trying to kill her and as result Malgus spared her life after defeating her.Kenobi had more than one chance to go all out on Ventress but he always held back. And together with Anakin they disarmed her instead of killing. As the result she not only saved Kenobi later, she is on her way to be redeemed in final season.
If by your opinion all those characters are idiots, then it only reflects your bias and inadequacy.
In turn Anakin by killing defenceless opponent got closer to darkside. And Windu by attempting to kill defenceless opponent got himself killed as well as completed Anakin's fall to darkside.
You can't give a single example, where killing defenceless opponent would lead to positive outcome and proclaim yourself of winning, when my aim wasn't about winning at all. Your sence of competition is not needed here, for that you have sport and computer games.
So who's logic is one sided?And your talk about state of mind is useless. Windu never got sub-merged into Vaapad so deeply before fighting Sidious. He couldn't achieve such state of mind whenever he wanted. Same way characters experience Oneness with the Force ones in a life time. But those, who experienced Oneness, made huge difference in history. What difference in history gave Vaapad? None. Two Jedi got consumed by darkness and third died of betrayal and was instrumental device to turn Anakin.
You failed as a debator.
You failed as a person.
You proved only your deluded stupidity.
What is this crap?
Do you read well?
Let me repeat it one more time,
Read carefully ,
A Sith is NEVER defenseless.
Palpatine WASN'T unarmed.
Read it again,
Far as SOM goes,you still wrong
Read the definition 10 more times.
The difference in Vaapad gave to history ?
How about created from Juyo
defeated countless opponents,including Jango Fett
The Most dangerous style in history
Your deluded logic is so deluded you can't see past or through Luke Skywalker
Fact,he threw AWAY his light saber
And got fried for it.
Vader changed history,
Vader got the credit for killing the emperor not DUMB ASS LUKE!!!
Again WHO throws away their lightsaber?
The fight wasn't OVER!!!
Like I said Kyle Katarn was a BETTER example,
READ IT AGAIN,
Yes,Sora died BY ANOTHER VAAPAD PRACTITIONER !!!
Depa is in coma, She's not dead.
You just can't FACE THAT I KICKED YOUR ASS IN THIS DEBATE
AND STILL KICKING YOUR ASS,
How long did it take you to come up with that crap?
Don't answer that,
Just READ IT AGAIN !!!
I have accomplished alot as a person and everything else for that matter.
I eat people like YOU for breakfast and move on to the next thing.
You still have that one tracked mind set.
READ THE BOOK AGAIN,
You're still wrong as usual.
Let me give your deluded mind one more definition.
Now keep up because I seem to LOSE YOU at what State Of Mind is,
And what it is to Vaapad and why you'll never understand it
And why Vaapad STILL Masters YOU,
Pay attention and read
Try to keep up this time.
State of Mind 2nd definition
A temporary psychological state
1.noun frame of mind
temporary state that continues for a limited time
psychological state a mental condition in which the qualities of a state
are relatively constant even though the state "it self " maybe dynamic,
"a manic state"
2.the state of a person's cognitive processes.
AGAIN SLOW FELLOW,
To Vaapad this is the key to PART of it's Mastery.
Your personality has to fit with Vaapad.
Same as your State of Mind.
Key mindsets "The Want to Win" "The Want to fight"
Are mind sets ,frames of mind similar to the definitions I gave you.
All I'm saying slow misguided fellow that these sets can change.
(Depending on the Practitioner)
This is why Vaapad is different from the others.
Through out shatter point we read Mace still wanting to win,
but CHANGING his APPROACH each time.
Vaapad has a SIZABLE FORCE USE.
meaning it's not just "ALL SABERS"
There are SOME FORCE USE in it,thus the saying,
Part light saber style,Part Force
Mastery of the Force is another qualification.
My dear lost Padawan you are truly lost if you think
that crap you wrote wins this debate.
I still win,no matter how many times you reply,
I still win.....
Bub,what's hilarious is you trying to prove that Luke changed history.
You don't get it, do you?padawan?!
And what's also hilarious is this dumb ass is the only one who "threw away" his lightsaber.
Now that was history making.
I never said anything about attacking defenseless opponents.
I said it's hilarious, a JOKE if you think Palpatine is defenseless.
Such BS...Once again, your clouded misguided logic holds no proof to what I said.
This debate is..over.
Seems like I hit a few nerves.
Base less speculations? your inferior logic times 7
Aimless rant ? I proved my point and you're angry.
Personal Attacks? You got personal, I just ended it....
Proclaim myself winner god?
that was stupid,
I'm no god neither is Luke SkyWalker.
But I am STILL the winner.
You gave a good interpretation but you still missed several clues.
My opinion as fact?
I backed it up WITH FACTS.
As for your example rant,
I gave you Kyle Katarn vs Jerec.
Remember,read it and Jedi Knight again.
The positive outcome is Jerec died and the prisoners were freed.
My sense of competition is not needed?
Then you leave the threads then.
Debates are competition.
My facts and opinions competes with yours!!!!
Windu never sub merged into Vaapad fully?
You lie,he did, once.
Not before the fight but during the fight.
Read,padawan,read.
He could n't achieve such a state or mind when ever he wanted?
Wrong!!!
He could slip into Vaapad when ever he wanted.
state of mind also.
What planet you from?
Lastly the history rant?
Really? Really?
Ok school's in again,
He made history by creating and finishing Juyo with Vaapad(to the Jedi)
Vaapad replaces Juyo as the new form Vll(but Juyo is still practiced)
Again the most dangerous and the most deadliest in the history of light saber combat.
kills Jango Fett and stalemating Sidious
defeats Kar Vastor
And who ever else the EU Says was slain or stalemated by Vaapad .
And for the record I proved no opponent is defenseless if he wields the Force or a trained killer,
example,Vader and the 501st attacking a "defenseless " Jedi Temple and killing innocent younglings.The outcome says it all no need to type this,
Read the book
Research your souces the answer to your ridiculous rants are answered through out the history of
the SW Myths.
You only proved that you still can't grasp what SOM is
Or what it does when you add it to many different things
including the Force and Vaapad.
Now answer that in your Luke Skywalker logic and try to debate that.
If the Force wants them dead then they must die,plain and simple.
This thread is done,I never claimed god of anything,
That was real stupid.
Just mastery of what Vaapad is
And what it does.
When you tried to dismiss changing state of mind,
You got checked,
When I came with the facts you were checkmated
It was peaceful when I ended your ridiculous rants
You made it personal.
I tried to end and even stalemate this debate.
You still tried to attempt to get under my skin,you didn't
Competition?That's life
So you telling us you can't handle competition?
We all bring something new and different and unique
to these threads so get over it and man up or get off the threads
Just that simple, you win some you lose some.
I 've wasted enough time with this,time to move to the next thread.
Juyomaster34. Ik we are pals now, but you have to stop the bashing. The mods will restrict you. Try to not take people disagreeing personally. It can be hard sometimes, I know. Darth Power and I were at odds on the Grivous vs Savage thread, but we agreed later. Do not make people dislike you. I am new, so I am trying to make some friends. So I keep my points short and sweet. Sorry if it seems like I am lecturing. I will go back to debating with others now.
So from I have gathered is that the TFU games and novels have really helped to demonstrate the power of vader, and that with his mastery of TK he could take the majority against Mace.
Vader could use his TK and crush Mace or simply bludgeon him to death, Mace would never be able to engage in close combat due to Vader perpetually keeping him at distance with AOE force waves and pushes.