Originally posted by ares834
Why would drain weaken anyone even if they are made of flesh and blood? Malak's drain, for example, boosted him. It could be simply Abeloth's unique nature as the embodiment of chaos and imbalance. Or Krayt could simply be shitty at force drain. I could entertain either view.
Shitty at Force drain. Second one. 🙂
Originally posted by ares834
Sorta. Luke and Krayt destroy Abeloth in the Beyond Shadows but she still exists."Three days ago we were attacked by a tentacle. It materialized out of the Force and attmpted to choke Jedi Saar. When Jedi Arelis ignited his lightsaber, it released Saar and turned to attack Arelis - then just dissolved."
Well Nihilus only has to kill her one time to win here. 😉
Originally posted by ares834
Nah. Lifting the Ravager is impressive, but as Gid pointed out numerous times he had the benefit of a dark side nexus. By contrast Luke destroyed a fortress with the force and even more impressive rebuilt it. And, perhaps greatest of all, he used the force to move a miniature black hole.
Nihilus was turned into a Maelstrom of pure Force energy, so he wouldn't need a Nexus like say, Palpatine would.
Yanking a massive Warship out of the Gravity-Well, of a world, which may range into the millions of billions of tons is more impressive than rebuilding a structure.
And Luke moved a miniature black hole after taking control of a Dovin Basal.
Originally posted by ares834
Regardless, Abeloth melted an entire city of Sith with a single scream. Not sure why Nihilus would survive such an attack (or Luke for that matter).
Nihilus tanked a gravitational explosion that ripped an entire world into pieces and killed every living thing on it.
He wins here. 🙂
- She will be screaming, though - not that it will do her any good. 😉
Originally posted by ares834They have all experienced the technique first-hand as well.
Been awhile since I played the game but I thought Malachor V's unique force presence allowed them to learn the technique. After all, all the Sith Assassins can use a weaker version of it.
They've been in Nihilus's presence. 131
Also, Jesus Christ Battlemaster, the sad part is that that is actually Abeloth's true appearance. What a lame-ass Lovecraftian horror.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Nihilus was turned into a Maelstrom of pure Force energy, so he wouldn't need a Nexus like say, Palpatine would.
Perhaps Nihilus could. But he still had access to a nexus so we can't say with certainty that he could do so without it.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
And Luke moved a miniature black hole after taking control of a Dovin Basal.
Nah. Kyp does that. Luke does the following.
"Immediately the dovin basals started to shift the void to cover this new attack vector. Luke fed the Force into his hold on the void, thwarting them. Their pressure increased, and still Luke held it unmoving. The torpedoes got closer and closer. The dovin basals pulled harder, and when their effort reached a new peak, Luke let the void slip over toward intercepting the proton torpedoes.
The dovin basals devoted their efforts to sliding the void into place, which required both some lateral movement and shortening the arc over which the void would travel. As they brought it close to the vehicle, Luke pushed with the Force. Since the dovin basals were already tugging the void back toward the vehicle, they were not prepared to have the travel accelerated."
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Nihilus tanked a gravitational explosion that ripped an entire world into pieces and killed every living thing on it.
Not confirmed. Regardless, he clearly isn't impervious to harm as the Exile and her companions end up slaying him. And Abeloth can certainly dish out far more pain than the Exile.
Originally posted by ares834
Perhaps, Nihilus could. But he still had access to a nexus so we can't say with certainty that he could do so without it.
He held ships together and drug them around the cosmos, even amidst the influence of other gravitational signatures, and in Hyperspace.
So yeah, I think we could. 😎
Originally posted by ares834
Nah. Kyp does that. Luke does the following."Immediately the dovin basals started to shift the void to cover this new attack vector. Luke fed the Force into his hold on the void, thwarting them. Their pressure increased, and still Luke held it unmoving. The torpedoes got closer and closer. The dovin basals pulled harder, and when their effort reached a new peak, Luke let the void slip over toward intercepting the proton torpedoes.
The dovin basals devoted their efforts to sliding the void into place, which required both some lateral movement and shortening the arc over which the void would travel. As they brought it close to the vehicle, Luke pushed with the Force. Since the dovin basals were already tugging the void back toward the vehicle, they were not prepared to have the travel accelerated."
That doesn't prove anything. Luke still needed the Dovin Basal to manipulate the singularity.
Originally posted by ares834
Not confirmed. Regardless, he clearly isn't impervious to harm as the Exile and her companions end up slaying him. And Abeloth can certainly dish out far more pain than the Exile.
Confirmed. He was on the planet when the Super-weapon went off, ripping it into pieces and killing every remaining thing on the planet.
The Generator, a superweapon conceived by the Zabrak tech specialist Bao-Dur, killed almost everyone on the planet's surface and in orbit nearby.[4] This man survived the superweapon's destruction of the surface of Malachor and in his grief over his losses during the war he assumed a dark persona,[2] in part as a means of survival.
- Lifted from Wook, also 😉 - and taken originally from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide.
The only reason the Exile could harm him, was because 99% of his Force energy had been exhausted in trying to feed upon a Force Wound, meaning his durability in the Force, which could before tank Planetary-explosions, was now lessened to where the Exile could kill him.
But Nihilus is at Peak power here, and Abeloth isn't a Force Wound - so she's screwed. 😉
I'll cut down the "fat" to only a few things.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
That doesn't prove anything. Luke still needed the Dovin Basal to manipulate the singularity.
Not true. The Dovin Basal can move the singularity, yet Luke prevented this from happening. This means he was applying an equal amount of force as the Basal meaning if Luke wanted to he could move the black hole if the Basal did not resist.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
The Generator, a superweapon conceived by the Zabrak tech specialist Bao-Dur, killed almost everyone on the planet's surface and in orbit nearby.[4] This man survived the superweapon's destruction of the surface of Malachor and in his grief over his losses during the war he assumed a dark persona,[2] in part as a means of survival.
- Lifted from Wook, also 😉 - and taken originally from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide.
I have the guide and it does not confirm any of that in his passage. If it does exist somewhere else in the book, please direct me to the passage. Regardless, even if we assume he survived the attack. Durability against such an event does not translate to durability against a different source. Different defenses exist against different forms of attack. After all, Yoda can protect himself against Sidious's lightning but we don't assume he can survive against Nihilus's drain as that would require something different.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Canon stated that the only defense to Nihilus's Drain is a [B]Force Wound.Is Abeloth a Force Wound?
Hold on, I'll go look her up and see if she is. 😉 [/B]
The problem is Abeloth may be an aspect of the force itself. If true it wouldn't make sense saying you can cut her off from the force if she is composed of force energy.
Originally posted by ares834
I'll cut down the "fat" to only a few things. Not true. The Dovin Basal can move the singularity, yet Luke prevented this from happening. This means he was applying an equal amount of force as the Basal meaning if Luke wanted to he could move the black hole if the Basal did not resist.
You still haven't proved that Luke wasn't manipulating a Dovin Basal.
Originally posted by ares834
I have the guide and it does not confirm any of that in his passage. If it does exist somewhere else in the book, please direct me to the passage.
Are you sure you aren't looking at a cookbook, and forgot to put your contacts in? 😛
Originally posted by ares834
Regardless, even if we assume he survived the attack. Durability against such an event does not translate to durability against a different source. Different defenses exist against different forms of attack. After all, Yoda can protect himself against Sidious's lightning but we don't assume he can survive against Nihilus's drain as that would require something different.
Sidious's lightning is inherently an Offending attacking capability, whereas Nihilus's Drain doesn't give energy - but takes.
Nihilus can tank or absorb any Offending attack launched at him.
Abeloth can expel Force attacks that Nihilus would eat, or simply diffuse atoms and cause huge explosions that Nihilus could simply tank.
Originally posted by ares834
The problem is Abeloth may be an aspect of the force itself. If true it wouldn't make sense saying you can cut her off from the force if she is composed of force energy.
Actually - it would.
A black hole is made up of an acceleration of energetic particles.
Nihilus is a black hole - in the Force.
That would be like saying, "it wouldn't make sense saying that a black hole could pull in light, even though light is made of energy like a black hole is."
Basically, Nihilus eats Force energy, and she's made of his favorite snack - so he can totally eat her.
It would be no different than a black hole coming close to a sun - and while not close enough to swallow up the entire sun - it still swallows off parts of light emanating from the sun.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
You still haven't proved that Luke wasn't manipulating a Dovin Basal.
Please. The fact it's working against him shows he wasn't. Let's use some common sense here.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Are you sure you aren't looking at a cookbook, and forgot to put your contacts in? 😛
If you don't want to direct me to the excerpt from the book a direct quote and proximate position in the book would be helpful. As it is I see no mention of him tanking the Mass-Shadow Generator.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Sidious's lightning is inherently an Offending attacking capability, whereas Nihilus's Drain doesn't give energy - but takes.
A minor distinction. Regardless, the point still stands. Force absorb is useful against lightning and blaster bolts but doesn't appear to be applicable against telekinesis. Why should Nihilus's defense against a gravity based attack be applicable against an attack with a very different nature? Quite simply, it shouldn't.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Nihilus can tank or absorb any Offending attack launched at him.
This has never been stated anywhere.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Actually - it would.A black hole is made up of an acceleration of energetic particles.
Nihilus is a black hole - in the Force.
You know that Nihilus isn't actually a black hole in the force right? It's a metaphor. 😛
And I have never seen him mentioned to be one either, to my knowledge only Sidious has been called one.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
That would be like saying, "it wouldn't make sense saying that a black hole could pull in light, even though light is made of energy like a black hole is."
Not at all. Drain works on her. And that's what you are describing here. But as pointed out Nihilus doesn't actually drain he severs and then feeds on the death caused. But to sever a being that is one with the force from the force, doesn't make sense.
The only reason the Exile could harm him, was because 99% of his Force energy had been exhausted in trying to feed upon a Force Wound, meaning his durability in the Force, which could before tank Planetary-explosions, was now lessened to where the Exile could kill him.
Originally posted by ares834
"It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves…it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught…it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."Taken from the wook... 😉
Nihilus can tank or absorb any Offending attack launched at him.
Is Abeloth a Force Wound?
you guys are arguing the wrong Luke feat: His most impressive TK was "submerged himself in the force, and when Luke Skywalker did that, nothing, not even the massive black hole at the center of the galaxy could move him."
Rough paraphrase, but you know the quote of which I speak. Argue THAT. the dovin basil thing is chump change compared to it.
Originally posted by truejedi
you guys are arguing the wrong Luke feat: His most impressive TK was "submerged himself in the force, and when Luke Skywalker did that, nothing, not even the massive black hole at the center of the galaxy could move him."Rough paraphrase, but you know the quote of which I speak. Argue THAT. the dovin basil thing is chump change compared to it.
Resisting and conquering UnuThul at all was a pretty much unparalleled combat feat.