Originally posted by truejedi
you guys are arguing the wrong Luke feat: His most impressive TK was "submerged himself in the force, and when Luke Skywalker did that, nothing, not even the massive black hole at the center of the galaxy could move him."Rough paraphrase, but you know the quote of which I speak. Argue THAT. the dovin basil thing is chump change compared to it.
Hyperbole. 😉
The Dovin Basal thing may or may not be chump change - but the "feat" you just quoted, is Counterfeit. 😛
Originally posted by ares834
Please. The fact it's working against him shows he wasn't. Yes, let's continue to shift the argument to make my blunder my disappear.
Right - and how do we know that Luke wasn't in control of a Dovin Basal at the time, to play that game with the other Dovin Basal's and manipulate the singularity?
Originally posted by ares834
As it is I see no mention of him tanking the Mass-Shadow Generator.
Okay - just so I'm getting this correctly - you're basically saying that Nihilus was not at Malachor V - because the Mass Shadow Generator killed everything on that planet, and almost everything in orbit around it.
In order for Nihilus to not tank the blast from the MSG, he would have to either be destroyed at the beginning of the game (so you never fight him later because of this) or, not be on the planet.
Is this what you're claiming? That he wasn't on the planet? Fascinating! 😛
I have never heard of him being on any other planet during the Mandalorian Wars, so where do you get the info for your claim?
Also, the death and destruction at Malachor was what gave Nihilus his great power to begin with (it's the reason there is a character in the game called Darth Nihilus) without Malachor, his character wouldn't exist.
So, what source are you claiming says that Nihilus wasn't on Malachor when the Generator went off?
I actually find that to be a lot more interesting, considering where we have multiple sources saying he was on the planet at the time - there is only one source attempting to indicate he wasn't - you.
What do you know that that countless moderators and the creators of the game do not know? Share your secrets with us. detective
Originally posted by ares834
A minor distinction. Regardless, the point still stands. Force absorb is useful against lightning and blaster bolts but doesn't appear to be applicable against telekinesis. Why should Nihilus's defense against a gravity based attack be applicable against an attack with a very different nature? Quite simply, it shouldn't.
From what I understand, all of Abeloth's attacks that I've heard of stem from her hurling destructive Force energy at something - which Nihilus can eat like pez.
Originally posted by ares834
You know that Nihilus isn't actually a black hole in the force right? It's a metaphor. 😛
Nihilus is literally a hole in the Force that sucks Force energy into it - literally a black hole in the Force.
Originally posted by ares834
And I have never seen him mentioned to be one either, to my knowledge only Sidious has been called one.
- Right, and that is the one that is a Metaphor, genius. 😛
Originally posted by ares834
Not at all. Drain works on her. And that's what you are describing here. But as pointed out Nihilus doesn't actually drain he severs and then feeds on the death caused. But to sever a being that is one with the force from the force, doesn't make sense.
- Right, and guess what the feeding is? Draining.
Also Abeloth is an entity made of Force energy, the stuff Nihilus feeds on/drains/eats, so as he is a wound in the Force, in which all Force energy goes to die afterwards, feeds on her as well, and if she isn't a Force Wound then there isn't anything she can do about it. 😉
Originally posted by ares834
This has never been stated anywhere.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Right - and how do we know that Luke wasn't in control of a Dovin Basal at the time, to play that game with the other Dovin Basal's and manipulate the singularity?
Because the text never mentions it. Furthermore, Dovin Basals don't actually exist in the force so Luke shouldn't be able to control it.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Okay - just so I'm getting this correctly - you're basically saying that Nihilus was not at Malachor V - because the Mass Shadow Generator killed everything on that planet, and almost everything in orbit around it.
He was on Malachor V at one point. As it is I don't see why he has to be on the planet when the generator goes off. He could have just as easily been in orbit and his ship crashed.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
From what I understand, all of Abeloth's attacks that I've heard of stem from her hurling destructive Force energy at something - which Nihilus can eat like pez.
Nihilus has never "ate" a force attack.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
- Right, and guess what the feeding is? Draining.
Also Abeloth is an entity made of Force energy, the stuff Nihilus feeds on/drains/eats, so as he is a wound in the Force, in which all Force energy goes to die afterwards, feeds on her as well, and if she isn't a Force Wound then there isn't anything she can do about it. 😉
No. As Neph and other have pointed out repeatedly in other threads. Nihilus's drain isn't simply draining. It first requires him to sever Abeloth.
Originally posted by ares834
Because the text never mentions it. Furthermore, Dovin Basals don't actually exist in the force so Luke shouldn't be able to control it.
Then neither should Kyp.
But he did - and if you revealed more text, I'm sure we would see that Luke did, too. dev
Originally posted by ares834
He was on Malachor V at one point. As it is I don't see why he has to be on the planet when the generator goes off. He could have just as easily been in orbit and his ship crashed.
Really, he was?
I've never seen any other source saying this - only you.
Originally posted by ares834
Nihilus has never "ate" a force attack.
He feeds on the Force, Einstein. 😛
Originally posted by ares834
No. As Neph and other have pointed out repeatedly in other threads. Nihilus's drain isn't simply draining. It first requires him to sever Abeloth.
Right - and the only Canon defense for this is a Force Wound.
Is she a Force Wound?
Hold on, I'll go check. 😉
Be right back.
Battlemaster, what exactly is your source, page and location on the page, that Nihilus was on Malachor? You need to find the "Sources" part on the Wookie page if you want to use it......
Oh, and Abeloth is like the Ones. I think she was one at one point. Nihilus can't sever beings made of the Force. Its illogical.
And Nihilus has never been shown to "eat" and attack with the Force. Not in any material I am aware of. Ergo, you can't say he can.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Then neither should Kyp.But he did - and if you revealed more text, I'm sure we would see that Luke did, too. dev
Yeah, the Kyp thing seems to be a mistake. In fact, in the very book which Kyp does it it mentions that Jaina was unable to affect the Vong's vessels due to their nature.
And here is the whole scene.
"Luke sank back into the chair and closed his eyes. He took a deep breath and reached out through the Force. He let his sense of things ride above the frayed ones' jagged profile and vectored in toward the vehicle. He got no solid sense of it directly, though a few frayed ones did appear to be housed inside. Instead he used that emptiness as a way point to search out a void, and as it formed, the black hole blossomed fully in the Force.
The void that the vehicle's dovin basals created to intercept the missiles was a gravitic anomaly that had substance in the real world. Tiny threads of the Force leaked into it as insects and birds, bats and bugs were pulled into it. Luke used their vanishing life traces and the very currents in the air that the void created to define the void. He traced its edges, knew exactly where it was, and knew how powerful it was.
He opened himself to the Force more fully than he had in years. He sought more power than he had when freeing his nephew. The Force flooded into him, at once molten-metal hot, yet as soothing as a cool rain. It swirled through him, filling every cell of his body, freeing him from fatigue, sharpening his mind.
Luke reached out with that power and latched onto the void that the Yuuzhan Vong vehicle had created. He pushed a bit, then tugged, in nanoseconds getting a feel for the power the dovin basals were able to exert to control the void. He almost smiled, since that amount of power was nothing compared to the Force, but he stopped himself short of pride in that fact.
"Artoo, juke the missiles."
R2-D2 keened sharply and fed the proton torpedoes a new set of data. The torpedoes twisted in flight and arced toward the sky, flying up and over the void. Then they turned again and fell toward the ground, aimed at the vehicle's spine.
Immediately the dovin basals started to shift the void to cover this new attack vector. Luke fed the Force into his hold on the void, thwarting them. Their pressure increased, and still Luke held it unmoving. The torpedoes got closer and closer. The dovin basals pulled harder, and when their effort reached a new peak, Luke let the void slip over toward intercepting the proton torpedoes.
The dovin basals devoted their efforts to sliding the void into place, which required both some lateral movement and shortening the arc over which the void would travel. As they brought it close to the vehicle, Luke pushed with the Force. Since the dovin basals were already tugging the void back toward the vehicle, they were not prepared to have the travel accelerated.
The void crashed into the vehicle, striking it in midspine. The long vehicle bent backward as both ends became sucked into the black hole. It flowed like thick liquid, all the sharp horns and bony plates becoming fluid as they curved up over the void's event horizon. In less than an eye blink the vehicle had been consumed by the void, leaving a huge gap in the Yuuzhan Vong formation."
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Really, he was?I've never seen any other source saying this - only you.
He was what? We know he was on Malachor V when he stripped Kreia of the force. If you are talking about him crashing onto the planet, I did not state it as fact. I merely presented another possibility in contrast to him actually being on the planet at the time of detonation. Hell, I don't even think there was a ground battle during the battle.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
He feeds on the Force, Einstein. 😛
Yeah, on the force within people. Never has he shown the ability to feed on force power thrown his way.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Right - and the only Canon defense for this is a Force Wound.Is she a Force Wound?
Hold on, I'll go check. 😉
I'm not sure why you think this is true. Do you think Nihilus could drain a droid?
Originally posted by ArhaelSo, if a pillar will be thrown at him, he will absorb it as well?
TK blast is not the Force as much as effect caused by it. Even Yuuzan Vong were affected by TK to some extend. Also, there is no known example in EU of anybody absorbing TK.
Also, Force lightning is not the Force, it is energy. That's why it worked on Yuuzhan Vong.
There is no known actual Force attack absorb ability in EU. Examples such as Revan, Satele, Corran Horn and Keiran Halkion were absorbing energy like electricity, blaster bolts, explosions and lightsaber beam, which could be converted into power. As for Yoda, he wasn't even absorbing lightning into himself, he contained it in his grasp, that's why he wasn't empowered by it.Seems like she is worse. That's why Krayt suffered absorbing her but unlike Nihilus, who gave up after one attempt, he continued through his suffering. Also, your point about him suffering because he is made from flash is utterly invalid. They fought beyond shadows, inside spiritual world outside their bodies.
Originally posted by Pwned
Battlemaster, what exactly is your source, page and location on the page, that Nihilus was on Malachor? You need to find the "Sources" part on the Wookie page if you want to use it......
What's the source that he wasn't? 😛
Every source I've seen says he was - and only one says he isn't - Ares.
So I want to see what makes his one opinion more valid than apparent established Canon.
Originally posted by Pwned
Oh, and Abeloth is like the Ones. I think she was one at one point. Nihilus can't sever beings made of the Force. Its illogical.
If that were true, he wouldn't be able to feed on Force energy. But that's illogical.
But he does, and Abeloth is Force energy, so he feeds on her.
Originally posted by Pwned
And Nihilus has [B]never been shown to "eat" and attack with the Force. Not in any material I am aware of. Ergo, you can't say he can. [/B]
Play Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords; in case you don't know, he's a character in that game that feeds on Force energy, and uses Force powers to attack other people with the Force.
Ergo, I can say he can, because he does. 😎