Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Opinions?? There are many on panel feats of gods busting galaxies. not just odin.Odin, Surtur, Seth, Walker, Shuma Gorath, Chaos King(the guy destroyed 99% of the universe) etc
"Skyfather" refers to the head of an earthly pantheon (or the equivalent on some alien planet, such as Sharra and K'ythri). Shuma Gorath and Chaos King arn't such skyfathers in some pantheon. Granted, Chaos King as Amatsu-Mikaboshi is a part of Japanese mythology but the Marvel version of him predates the earthly gods, in fact as an aspect of Oblivion he predates the earth itself.
BTW, can you show me an on panel feat of Odin or Surtur busting galaxies?
IMO it's highly debatable whether or not Odin could currently destroy a galaxy. How many skyfathers are on earth? How many in the galaxy? Imagine if they could all destroy galaxies? There'd be no universe left.
Anyone else wonder why he didn't just destroy the earth with his own power in Fear itself rather build up Asgard to do it?
Anyway, here's the best evidence he could destroy a galaxy:
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
[B]IMO it's highly debatable whether or not Odin could currently destroy a galaxy. How many skyfathers are on earth? How many in the galaxy? Imagine if they could all destroy galaxies? There'd be no universe left.Anyone else wonder why he didn't just destroy the earth with his own power in Fear itself rather build up Asgard to do it?
that was just stupid. Odin could have worked the entire planet over by himself without even destroying it. Fraction just doesn't know how to write him. He yelled at the watcher, was constantly spitting, lost his noble nature, became bi-polar, and the Odinfamily headbutt was introduced recently used by freyja.
Thanks for the scans.
Those seem like typical examples of asgardian boasting/exaggarations; as far as I can tell there isn't an on-panel depiction of Odin or Surtur destroying a galaxy / galaxies in those scans. As opposed to the Beyonder's galaxy-busting feat which was clearly, unambiguously presented on-panel.
Asgardian stories should always be treated with caution. It goes something like this:
Odin says:
Ho! It so happened that all-mighty Odin, god of gods, came into blows with the foul lord of Muspelheim -- Surtur himself! The demon's roar extinguished a thousand stars but Odin the all-father would not cower. Nay, on that eve of Odinsday, the omnipotent Gungnir would clash against the infinite power of the foul Twilight Sword, and each strike would shatter entire galaxies to dust! Three millenia would we fight but it was the all-powerful Odin who eventually stood victorious in the middle of the destroyed Universe.
What really happened, as told by Frigga:
Yes, the boys had a brief tussle in the backyard. For maybe half an hour I was afraid they might actually crash into the house, but luckily Surtur then left Asgard to return back to his fiery realm. Yet, several asgardian households suffered some property damage and my backyard garden was completely ruined! I had to replant most of the flowers. So annoying! Luckily my husband retired to his quarters with a big barrell of ale, not to be disturbed while he composes a tale of his fight with the fire-demon, so I have the time to do some gardening.
Originally posted by Damborgson
that was just stupid. Odin could have worked the entire planet over by himself without even destroying it. Fraction just doesn't know how to write him. He yelled at the watcher, was constantly spitting, lost his noble nature, became bi-polar, and the Odinfamily headbutt was introduced recently used by freyja.
Yeah, I agree completely. The dialogue in the Mighty Thor run was really stupid. Thor and Odin kept swearing and talking like street thugs in the fight with SS and Galactus.
Originally posted by Magnon
Thanks for the scans.Those seem like typical examples of asgardian boasting/exaggarations; as far as I can tell there isn't an on-panel depiction of Odin or Surtur destroying a galaxy / galaxies in those scans. As opposed to the Beyonder's galaxy-busting feat which was clearly, unambiguously presented on-panel.
Asgardian stories should always be treated with caution. It goes something like this:
Odin says:
Ho! It so happened that all-mighty Odin, god of gods, came into blows with the foul lord of Muspelheim -- Surtur himself! The demon's roar extinguished a thousand stars but Odin the all-father would not cower. Nay, on that eve of Odinsday, the omnipotent Gungnir would clash against the infinite power of the foul Twilight Sword, and each strike would shatter entire galaxies to dust! Three millenia would we fight but it was the all-powerful Odin who eventually stood victorious in the middle of the destroyed Universe.What really happened, as told by Frigga:
Yes, the boys had a brief tussle in the backyard. For maybe half an hour I was afraid they might actually crash into the house, but luckily Surtur then left Asgard to return back to his fiery realm. Yet, several asgardian households suffered some property damage and my backyard garden was completely ruined! I had to replant most of the flowers. So annoying! Luckily my husband retired to his quarters with a big barrell of ale, not to be disturbed while he composes a tale of his fight with the fire-demon, so I have the time to do some gardening.
I've seen convincing arguments refuting that galaxies were actually destroyed in just about all of those scans, and I've seen convincing arguments for galaxies being destroyed in them. although I'm not interested in getting into again, as it feels like I've debated that about a million times. I go back and forth personally on whether he's a galaxy buster. I personally don't believe Odin is currently a galaxy buster, but that's just my feeling, I can't prove it. BUT I would be highly surprised if Odin ever destroys a galaxy or shows to be capable of it in a future Marvel comic.
There's just no consistent way whatsoever that skyfather-level entities like Surtur, the Serpent and so on could bust galaxies. If that was the case they would utterly destroy the Earth in a whim, in a blink of an eye. A galaxy contains hundreds of billions of starsystems, a being capable of destroying that most certainly wouldn't be found on the surface of earth fighting some earthly heroes. Captain America's punches hurt Thor but a being capable of destroying a galaxy can't take Thor out? Yeah, not gonna happen. Skyfathers are well below "galaxy-level" in power.
Originally posted by MagnonCaptain America's punches could bust galaxies. Pretty bad example.
There's just no consistent way whatsoever that skyfather-level entities like Surtur, the Serpent and so on could bust galaxies. If that was the case they would utterly destroy the Earth in a whim, in a blink of an eye. A galaxy contains hundreds of billions of starsystems, a being capable of destroying that most certainly wouldn't be found on the surface of earth fighting some earthly heroes. Captain America's punches hurt Thor but a being capable of destroying a galaxy can't take Thor out? Yeah, not gonna happen. Skyfathers are well below "galaxy-level" in power.
You know there are over 100 billion galaxies in just the visible part of the universe alone, right? Destroying a few here and there won't make much of a difference in the long run. Also claiming those galaxies weren't destroyed when scientists were confirming it, psychics and people with cosmic awareness were feeling it from all over the universe, and Thor and BRB visited the site of one later and it wasn't there anymore is kind of ridiculous. Destroying at least a small galaxy should be well within the range of most Skyfathers.
Generally destruction scale goes like this:
Heralds - Planet level to star system level
Transcendent - Star system to multi star system
Skyfather - Galaxy to multi galaxy
Elder God - Multi galaxy to dimension/threat to the universe
Cube Being - Create and destroy universes
Celestial/Abstract - Should be low multiversal to multiversal (not many feats of this for the Celestials though but powerscaling shows most of them to be this high)
High abstract - Multiverse level
MJJ/IG - Multiverse to megaverse level, eventually threaten the omniverse
LT - Can affect the omniverse
TOAA - Create and destroy the omniverse instantly
Originally posted by carver9
@Mike...What Herald has destroyed a Star System?
A few GLs like John... almost recreated it. Kyle recreated the DNA ship which was the size of a small star system. Nova who is weaker than Surfer destroyed a star to create a supernova shockwave. IIRC Imperiex probes did it, as did Rachel Summers. Star system is the high-end for Herald, most Heralds wouldn't be able to do it with a single attack.
Another question...if a universe is destroyed, how would we calculate that if we do not know the size of said universe? I think your ratings is off a bit.
Well usually unless it's stated to be a "pocket universe" or a "small universe" it's generally assumed to be the size of the RL universe, or at least many billion light-years in diameter. If it's a universe in one of the comic multiverses each one is an alternate version of the primary one, so unless it's specifically noted they should be the same size.
Superman has cooled down stars with his breath. Thor has re-ignited dead stars. These guys can affect entire star systems. But as I've said many times before, heroes don't usually go around destroying planets or star systems.
True. Why we need to powerscale them from the feats of other characters, or damaging things with certain durability, etc.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
You know there are over 100 billion galaxies in just the visible part of the universe alone, right? Destroying a few here and there won't make much of a difference in the long run. Also claiming those galaxies weren't destroyed when scientists were confirming it, psychics and people with cosmic awareness were feeling it from all over the universe, and Thor and BRB visited the site of one later and it wasn't there anymore is kind of ridiculous. Destroying at least a small galaxy should be well within the range of most Skyfathers.
Yes, I know there are around 100 billion galaxies in the observable universe. I hope your argument isn't "Skyfathers can destroy galaxies because there are so many of them!"
If you are referring to the above scans when you say "scientists were confirming it" etc then look again. All they were saying was that things COULD happen if the fight went on. Typical exaggerations without on-panel feats. If "entire galaxies" had been destroyed then the Milky Way would've taken the highest damage due to being at the center of it, but it didn't. The energies didn't even harm the planet Earth, which is an insignicantly small part of the Milky Way.
Originally posted by Magnon
Yes, I know there are around 100 billion galaxies in the observable universe. I hope your argument isn't "Skyfathers can destroy galaxies because there are so many of them!"
No, I was just responding to the person who said they can't because if they did there wouldn't be enough galaxies to go around. Besides the universe in Marvel and DC gets recreated/restored every few years in some event or another (like Chaos War for example) anyway.
If you are referring to the above scans when you say "scientists were confirming it" etc then look again. All they were saying was that things COULD happen if the fight went on. Typical exaggerations without on-panel feats.
They were saying that quasars were forming and disappearing (a quasar is a galactic core that emits way more power than a normal galaxy). They also confirmed that the laws of physics were breaking down.
If "entire galaxies" had been destroyed then the Milky Way would've taken the highest damage due to being at the center of it, but it didn't.
Where are you getting the idea that the Milky Way was at the center of the fight?
The energies didn't even harm the planet Earth, which is an insignicantly small part of the Milky Way.
Actually in the Infinity fight they did harm the Earth, Odin fixed it afterwards.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Where are you getting the idea that the Milky Way was at the center of the fight?
As far as I know it wasn't confirmed, but Odin, Seth, Surtur and others are related to Earth so it makes sense for the fight to take place close to Earth (either spatially or "dimensionally"😉. Or put it another way, we have these beings like Seth and Surtur who's desire is to destroy Earth but somehow when they fight they always manage to choose a location VERY VERY far away and fail to destroy this one planet -- while inadvertly destroying HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF OTHER PLANETS instead? This doesn't add up at all.
The Marvel Earth alone has like a dozen or more skyfathers and each has a couple of equally powerful "evil" counterparts/enemies who are bent on destruction. We already know from the exoplanet search that planetary systems are not a rare phenomenon in a galaxy, neither are the planets within the habitable zone of their central stars. In this sense, "our" universe resembles Marvel's in which the existence of such planets was confirmed much earlier than the first real-world exoplanet observations. There could be up to hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions of planets within a galaxy having potential for life (and in the MU, potential for the emergence of skyfather-level beings). Millions of galaxy-busting evil beings in each galaxy, bent on destroying the galaxy and everything? Just no. Contradicted by observation.
Skyfathers are...
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Actually in the Infinity fight they did harm the Earth, Odin fixed it afterwards.
... planetary-scale beings.