Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Opinions?? There are many on panel feats of gods busting galaxies. not just odin.Odin, Surtur, Seth, Walker, Shuma Gorath, Chaos King(the guy destroyed 99% of the universe) etc
To be fair though , the Chaos King was an aspect of Oblivion , pretty much a semi-Abstract . So he can't be used as an example here .
Originally posted by Magnon
As far as I know it wasn't confirmed, but Odin, Seth, Surtur and others are related to Earth so it makes sense for the fight to take place close to Earth (either spatially or "dimensionally"😉.
The Surtur fight took place in Asgard, and AFAIK the Infinity fight took place somewhere in deep space. The scientists were implying that the epicenter of the thing was pretty far away from Earth.
Or put it another way, we have these beings like Seth and Surtur who's desire is to destroy Earth but somehow when they fight they always manage to choose a location VERY VERY far away and fail to destroy this one planet -- while inadvertly destroying HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF OTHER PLANETS instead? This doesn't add up at all.
Where are you getting the idea that Earth was their target? Surtur's goal was to destroy all the nine worlds - to do that he first needed to get the Eternal Flame from Asgard. Seth was trying to conquer/destroy Asgard.
The Marvel Earth alone has like a dozen or more skyfathers and each has a couple of equally powerful "evil" counterparts/enemies who are bent on destruction.
So they keep each other in check. Do you really think they're going to have the Earth destroyed every week in comics?
We already know from the exoplanet search that planetary systems are not a rare phenomenon in a galaxy, neither are the planets within the habitable zone of their central stars. In this sense, "our" universe resembles Marvel's in which the existence of such planets was confirmed much earlier than the first real-world exoplanet observations. There could be up to hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions of planets within a galaxy having potential for life (and in the MU, potential for the emergence of skyfather-level beings). Millions of galaxy-busting evil beings in each galaxy, bent on destroying the galaxy and everything? Just no. Contradicted by observation
There don't seem to be as many alien Skyfathers, there were the Skrull gods and Walker (who actually did destroy his home galaxy), but I don't really remember any others. Like most fiction, Earth is given undue importance because that's where the writers are from.
Skyfathers are...... planetary-scale beings.
Not at all. That's just blatant downplaying in defiance of the evidence.
QFT.
And alien worlds do have "skyfathers" as in the heads of their respective pantheons. Desak was killing gods across the universe before confronting Thor and others.
The term "skyfather" as it's used tier wise is just to donate a specific class of power of beings well above the "herald" class. Just like not all skyfathers are actually gods or dieties tied directly to Earth, not all heralds are actually heralds of Galactus.
All of Mike's statements are accurate.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
The Surtur fight took place in Asgard, and AFAIK the Infinity fight took place somewhere in deep space. The scientists were implying that the epicenter of the thing was pretty far away from Earth.Where are you getting the idea that Earth was their target? Surtur's goal was to destroy all the nine worlds - to do that he first needed to get the Eternal Flame from Asgard. Seth was trying to conquer/destroy Asgard.
Asgard, Mt. Olympus and so on are dimensions coupled to Earth. They are "near" Earth even if they are usually located at adjacent "dimensions". Surtur's goal is Ragnarök -- the destruction of the nine worlds of the Norse mythology as you said: Asgard, Midgard (Earth), and so on. Earth IS one of his primary targets. If his clash with Odin really was able to destroy galaxies and therefore HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF PLANETS, he would make sure Earth and the other Nine Worlds were amongst them. Really, for such power it would be a ridiculously easy thing to do.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
So they keep each other in check. Do you really think they're going to have the Earth destroyed every week in comics?
That is just too fine a balance, can't happen if the enemies' have galaxy-busting power-levels. Besides, Odin has his odinsleep and other skyfathers are occasionally disabled as well. In moments like that the Earth (and the rest of the Nine Worlds, and the entire Milky Way) would be vaporized by Surtur and others, if they had such kind of power... but they don't.
It would be just silly to think that Odin manages to protect this single planet whenever they have a little skirmish but fails when it comes to HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF OTHER PLANETS which just die and get destroyed. And the large amount of implied skyfather level beings on those destroyed galaxies are also somehow unable to protect their worlds and galaxies? (Even if the Earth has more than the other planets, there are SOME.) No, the real reason is that Odin, Surtur and others simply do not have the power to operate at that scale.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Not at all. That's just blatant downplaying in defiance of the evidence.
Nope, there's plenty of evidence supporting that skyfathers' are planetary/global level powerhouses but still VERY far from being galaxy busters. Too many to list them all, really. Galactus gets shaken by Iron Man's repulsors in the Secret Wars, and gets nearly killed when he is hit by two colliding planets. These attacks are so ridiculously below "galaxy-busting" levels that I don't even bother to think of a metaphor to describe it. One thing becomes very clear: should Odin have such a galaxy-busting power level he could beat HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Galacti and Celestials at the same time with a mere gesture. Unfortunately, in a real fight, he gets owned by a single Celestial, and by a single Galactus... and gets nothing but contempt from a single Watcher when he tries his boasts on him.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Not to mention that if we go by your reasoning, there are billions of Celestials so they must not be able to destroy galaxies either...
Hahaha. Wow. I don't know what kind of deductive process you used to reach that conclusion... I suspect you might be trolling or building some straw man.
Originally posted by Magnon
Asgard, Mt. Olympus and so on are dimensions coupled to Earth. They are "near" Earth even if they are usually located at adjacent "dimensions".
I'm not buying this. They have portals to Earth, yes, but that doesn't make them "near" Earth in any meaningful way.
Surtur's goal is Ragnarök -- the destruction of the nine worlds of the Norse mythology as you said: Asgard, Midgard (Earth), and so on. Earth IS one of his primary targets. If his clash with Odin really was able to destroy galaxies and therefore HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF PLANETS, he would make sure Earth and the other Nine Worlds were amongst them. Really, for such power it would be a ridiculously easy thing to do.
Midgard in Marvel is actually often used to refer to the entire 616 universe, where Earth is situated in. If Surtur tried to go about destroying that with just the power he initially had it would take him forever - remember how many galaxies there are in just the visible universe. That's why he needed the Eternal Flame from Asgard first. Not to mention, like you said, there are all of the other Skyfathers and Gods who call Earth home that could stop him. Are you denying Surtur even has the power to destroy a planet? Because that's what your argument seems to be implying.
That is just too fine a balance, can't happen if the enemies' have galaxy-busting power-levels.
Why? Because you say so?
Look back at the OP of this thread, it mentions Skyfathers having powers like time control, causality manipulation, reality warping, etc. If they want to avoid damaging the Earth, they can.
Really your argument if taken to its logical conclusion invalidates anyone having any power at all. Herald level characters who can destroy planets have fought on Earth all the time, and the Earth isn't destroyed. Characters that can destroy cities and mountains have fought in the middle of populated areas without wiping everyone out. It's just the way the comic world works - you can't have Metropolis be leveled every time Superman fights someone in it. These things don't invalidate the feats these characters actually have.
Besides, Odin has his odinsleep and other skyfathers are occasionally disabled as well. In moments like that the Earth (and the rest of the Nine Worlds, and the entire Milky Way) would be vaporized by Surtur and others, if they had such kind of power... but they don't.
You yourself mentioned that there are a ton of Skyfathers on/related to Earth. Show me one time that they were all disabled at once (except for the likes of the IG saga, but that's obvious when serious shit is going down). Besides, like I said, Surtur wouldn't go around destroying random galaxies - it would take him forever to make a noticeable dent in the universe and he would eventually piss someone off like Galactus or a Celestial who would hand him his ass. He wants to try to find a way that he can destroy all the 9 worlds at once so no one can stop him.
Your argument is akin to saying:
Dr. Doom wants to conquer the world. So why doesn't he just go on a rampage blowing up buildings and attacking cities until he eventually works over the whole world?
[b]BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE STUPID.
It would be just silly to think that Odin manages to protect this single planet whenever they have a little skirmish but fails when it comes to HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF OTHER PLANETS which just die and get destroyed.
It's hinted Odin created the Earth and humankind so he would invest more effort into protecting them.
And the large amount of implied skyfather level beings on those destroyed galaxies are also somehow unable to protect their worlds and galaxies? (Even if the Earth has more than the other planets, there are SOME.)
Well in the Seth fight, it mentioned "long dead galaxies" being destroyed, so I'm guessing that meant nobody lived there anymore. But honestly even if there was a Skyfather in one of those galaxies they destroyed, it could just be that they couldn't match up to Odin's power, or who the hell knows, they might have survived and fixed their galaxy after the fight was over. Your argument here is nothing but random speculation.
Walker was the strongest god in his galaxy and he destroyed it, he apparently killed all of the other gods that were there... comics are generally earth-centric, so the gods of other planets usually just don't measure up.
No, the real reason is that Odin, Surtur and others simply do not have the power to operate at that scale.
Except for the many times they have done so...
Nope, there's plenty of evidence supporting that skyfathers' are planetary/global level powerhouses but still VERY far from being galaxy busters. Too many to list them all, really. Galactus gets shaken by Iron Man's repulsors in the Secret Wars, and gets nearly killed when he is hit by two colliding planets. These attacks are so ridiculously below "galaxy-busting" levels that I don't even bother to think of a metaphor to describe it.
Because low-end feats automatically invalidate high-end feats, right? I guess Hulk < snakes, Juggernaut < cement, and Thor < Wolverine.
One thing becomes very clear: should Odin have such a galaxy-busting power level he could beat HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Galacti and Celestials at the same time with a mere gesture. Unfortunately, in a real fight, he gets owned by a single Celestial, and by a single Galactus... and gets nothing but contempt from a single Watcher when he tries his boasts on him.
Except that Galactus, Celestials, and Watchers are on that same level or higher. Hell, Galactus recently fought Scrier and the Other and they were threatening to collapse the entire multiverse.
Hahaha. Wow. I don't know what kind of deductive process you used to reach that conclusion... I suspect you might be trolling or building some straw man. [/B]
It's your same argument. If there are so many Celestials then they would have destroyed the Earth a long time ago, according to you.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
You know there are over 100 billion galaxies in just the visible part of the universe alone, right? Destroying a few here and there won't make much of a difference in the long run. Also claiming those galaxies weren't destroyed when scientists were confirming it, psychics and people with cosmic awareness were feeling it from all over the universe, and Thor and BRB visited the site of one later and it wasn't there anymore is kind of ridiculous. Destroying at least a small galaxy should be well within the range of most Skyfathers.Generally destruction scale goes like this:
Heralds - Planet level to star system level
Transcendent - Star system to multi star system
Skyfather - Galaxy to multi galaxy
Elder God - Multi galaxy to dimension/threat to the universe
Cube Being - Create and destroy universes
Celestial/Abstract - Should be low multiversal to multiversal (not many feats of this for the Celestials though but powerscaling shows most of them to be this high)
High abstract - Multiverse level
MJJ/IG - Multiverse to megaverse level, eventually threaten the omniverse
LT - Can affect the omniverse
TOAA - Create and destroy the omniverse instantly
Originally posted by Endless Mike
I'm not buying this. They have portals to Earth, yes, but that doesn't make them "near" Earth in any meaningful way.Midgard in Marvel is actually often used to refer to the entire 616 universe, where Earth is situated in.
Nope, Midgard almost always refers to planet Earth. The Asgardian domain came into existence along with Earth, and is linked to Earth and the other Nine Worlds through Yggdrasil. Of all the places in the Earth's dimension it thus makes the most sense for Asgard to be "closest" to Earth. If some leftover power leak from Asgard affects the Earth's universe it should be centered at Earth.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
If Surtur tried to go about destroying that with just the power he initially had it would take him forever - remember how many galaxies there are in just the visible universe. That's why he needed the Eternal Flame from Asgard first. Not to mention, like you said, there are all of the other Skyfathers and Gods who call Earth home that could stop him. Are you denying Surtur even has the power to destroy a planet? Because that's what your argument seems to be implying.
No, what I'm implying is that Surtur doesn't have such an overwhelming galactic-wide powers that he could, while picking his teeth with his sword, as a stray-thought wipe out the entire solar system without straining himself at all. That's what a galaxy-buster would do, but Surtur would need time, effort and preparation to achieve the same.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Look back at the OP of this thread, it mentions Skyfathers having powers like time control, causality manipulation, reality warping, etc. If they want to avoid damaging the Earth, they can.
Right. So Odin doesn't want to damage Earth, but the casual destruction of countless of BILLIONS OF PLANETS and their life doesn't bother him at all? And the OTHER skyfathers on those planets just let this happen too? Totally illogical. The only reasonable answer is that skyfathers simply can't affect things at galactic scale.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Really your argument if taken to its logical conclusion invalidates anyone having any power at all. Herald level characters who can destroy planets have fought on Earth all the time, and the Earth isn't destroyed. Characters that can destroy cities and mountains have fought in the middle of populated areas without wiping everyone out. It's just the way the comic world works - you can't have Metropolis be leveled every time Superman fights someone in it. These things don't invalidate the feats these characters actually have.
Yes, ppl like Beta Ray Bill or Hulk destroying planet-scale objects is poor writing and inconsistent with their power level as established through their fights against ppl in a "I can lift trains" category (such as the Thing or Colossus). Do you grasp the size-difference between a train and a planet? Unfortunately not all the writers do; an occasional example of poor writing is just something one must accept when reading comics.
I loved the writing in the original Secret Wars because the writer seemed to mostly get the power levels right (the Wasp vs. X-men and Spider-Man vs. X-men being the most notable exceptions). Beyonder destroyed a galaxy in order to impress THE GALACTUS HIMSELF, and impressed he was. The most brilliant of heroes/villains present became almost crazy (Doom, Dr. Octopus and so on) since they could, to an extent, grasp how unprecedently massive a display of power that was. And Doom for example was already familiar with what the Earthly skyfathers could do. Furthermore, I liked the fact that the writer knew that those of LESSER intellect and education would not be as impressed about the galaxy-busting because they lack the understanding of the scale of it. Therefore the Wreckers, Absorbing Man etc. pretty much just went "wow" but that's it. The writer even knew how to keep the power level of the "herald level beings" consistent. When Owen dropped that infamous mountain on top of the heroes, it was made clear that Hulk (who has "high herald-level" strength) was well below planet-scale: he couldn't even lift a mountain but could only brace against the rock and keep a small cavity from caving-in. This is of course how it should be, if you take into consideration my previous paragraph.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
You yourself mentioned that there are a ton of Skyfathers on/related to Earth. Show me one time that they were all disabled at once (except for the likes of the IG saga, but that's obvious when serious shit is going down). Besides, like I said, Surtur wouldn't go around destroying random galaxies - it would take him forever to make a noticeable dent in the universe and he would eventually piss someone off like Galactus or a Celestial who would hand him his ass. He wants to try to find a way that he can destroy all the 9 worlds at once so no one can stop him.
The skyfathers have never been shown to monitor and constantly focus their power to prevent ALL the evil entities of their and the others' pantheons from destroying the Earth. That they are doing so, is a very unfounded assumption. No, typically the "evil one" starts to rise and collect his armies, prepare for the destruction of Earth... which is soon sensed by the skyfather who then starts to ready his own forces for a war. It's not like "Phew, Surtur just sent an abstract universal destruction wave which would've destroyed the Nine Worlds and everything else within several parsecs radius in a blink of an eye, but luckily I reacted quicly and prevented it with a magic spell!" No, they operate in WAY smaller scales.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It's hinted Odin created the Earth and humankind so he would invest more effort into protecting them.
EVERY pantheon is hinted at having created the Earth. Just the boasts and tale-spinnings so typical to the skyfathers. Such arrogance to call oneself the "all-father" when Bor and Buri (Tiwaz) had already travelled the Nine Worlds for countless of ages before Odin and his siblings were even born.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It's your same argument. If there are so many Celestials then they would have destroyed the Earth a long time ago, according to you.
I can't believe I have to explain this to you, but w/e. That is NOT my argument, that is YOURS. A poorly-constructed straw man. My argument is that there are LOTS and LOTS of "evil" skyfather-level beings in the various pantheons, a couple for every skyfather. Say, Surtur and Ymir for Odin in the Norse mythology, Hades and Cronus for Zeus in the Greek mythology and so on and so on. A large portion of these beings are focused on the destruction of Earth and more. If they had galaxy-busting powers they would do so, very often and very effortlessly. The 616 Celestials, on the other hand, are not a force of destruction but a one of evolution. Occasionally they judge a planet unworthy and then what happens? They casually destroy that planet, regardless of what some local skyfathers think about it. Why? Because they have the power to do it . In the 616 universe only ONE celestial has ever desired wide-scale destruction, the Black Celestial. One celestial vs. countless of celestials. Much better starting point for the other celestials to keep in check than what the skyfathers are facing, if we are concerned with the numbers. And even then, the Black Celestial managed to destroy his whole time-line. Why? Because he had the power to do so . He took Galactus, made him crazy and manipulated his being so that he wouldn't become sated no matter how much he ate, and then released him on the Universe. Skyfathers lack such power. Their powers are planet-wide, no more.
Originally posted by Magnon
Oh, and Odin didn't seem to care much about protecting the Earth in Fear Itself. Protecting Earth is in Thor's interests but Odin's primary concern is Asgard.
I think that can be attributed to Fraction butchering Odin's characterization . In the original Celestial-arc , Odin was portrayed as very much wanting to defend the Earth , and when in conversation with his Godhead peers , he admitted how important that "sphere" was to them .
Originally posted by Magnon
[B]Nope, Midgard almost always refers to planet Earth.
Nope. See:
http://i48.tinypic.com/qs9zzk.jpg
The Asgardian domain came into existence along with Earth, and is linked to Earth and the other Nine Worlds through Yggdrasil. Of all the places in the Earth's dimension it thus makes the most sense for Asgard to be "closest" to Earth.
They are in separate dimensions. Traditional definitions of distance don't apply.
If some leftover power leak from Asgard affects the Earth's universe it should be centered at Earth.
Not necessarily. Odin would deliberately do what he could to prevent that from happening. It's also not as if Earth is the only place in the normal universe where Asgard can access and be accessed from.
No, what I'm implying is that Surtur doesn't have such an overwhelming galactic-wide powers that he could, while picking his teeth with his sword, as a stray-thought wipe out the entire solar system without straining himself at all. That's what a galaxy-buster would do, but Surtur would need time, effort and preparation to achieve the same.
Except I've already explained that:
- His goal is to wipe out the entire nine worlds, which are all separate dimensions/universes. Not just Earth.
- There are multiple powerful gods and beings on Earth that could stop him if he tried directly attacking it.
- He wants to try to set up a plan or get a power where he can wipe out all of the 9 worlds at once. That's why he was attacking Asgard in the first place, to get the Eternal Flame.
Right. So Odin doesn't want to damage Earth, but the casual destruction of countless of BILLIONS OF PLANETS and their life doesn't bother him at all?
Nope. Odin's a dick like that. Earth and humanity are implied to be partially his creation after all.
Also in the Infinity fight he later fixed all the damage he had caused.
And the OTHER skyfathers on those planets just let this happen too? Totally illogical.
As I already explained, there are many possible reasons for that. Those Skyfathers are just not as powerful as Odin, or they live in their own dimensions and don't care what happens to the normal universe like Odin does, or they fixed the damage afterwards...
Hell, how common are alien Skyfathers anyway?
The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Walker (who actually did destroy his galaxy and defeat all of the other gods in it), the Skrull gods (I haven't seen anything to indicate they're close to galaxy level though), and the Dark Gods, which were specifically from the far end of the universe. I don't think Skyfathers not based on Earth are as common as you're making them out to be.
The only reasonable answer is that skyfathers simply can't affect things at galactic scale.
How it is reasonable to ignore repeated on-panel feats and statements from reliable characters that have occurred throughout the characters' history because you personally think it doesn't make sense?
Comics lead to a lot of fridge logic if you overanalyze them. That doesn't mean you get to deny canon feats.
Yes, ppl like Beta Ray Bill or Hulk destroying planet-scale objects is poor writing and inconsistent with their power level as established through their fights against ppl in a "I can lift trains" category (such as the Thing or Colossus).
Now I know you're just trolling. They never used planet-destroying attacks on the likes of Thing and Colossus, and the strength of those two is way above just lifting trains.
Do you grasp the size-difference between a train and a planet? Unfortunately not all the writers do; an occasional example of poor writing is just something one must accept when reading comics.
The fact you think lifting a train is Thing or Colossus' maximum is hilarious in and of itself, but what makes you think the planet is the inconsistent one instead of the lower feats?
Also you completely ignored my point.
Do you think the Hulk can only lift a train? And anything higher from him is bad writing?
I loved the writing in the original Secret Wars because the writer seemed to mostly get the power levels right (the Wasp vs. X-men and Spider-Man vs. X-men being the most notable exceptions). Beyonder destroyed a galaxy in order to impress THE GALACTUS HIMSELF, and impressed he was.
What's funny is that he was later retconned to be half of a cosmic cube, and Galactus and the others were just playing with him to make him seem stronger than he was.
The most brilliant of heroes/villains present became almost crazy (Doom, Dr. Octopus and so on) since they could, to an extent, grasp how unprecedently massive a display of power that was. And Doom for example was already familiar with what the Earthly skyfathers could do.
So you take a bit of poetic language over actual, on-panel feats, huh?
Furthermore, I liked the fact that the writer knew that those of LESSER intellect and education would not be as impressed about the galaxy-busting because they lack the understanding of the scale of it. Therefore the Wreckers, Absorbing Man etc. pretty much just went "wow" but that's it. The writer even knew how to keep the power level of the "herald level beings" consistent. When Owen dropped that infamous mountain on top of the heroes, it was made clear that Hulk (who has "high herald-level" strength) was well below planet-scale: he couldn't even lift a mountain but could only brace against the rock and keep a small cavity from caving-in.
And he has many feats way higher than that, but you just choose to ignore them for the sake of downplaying.
The skyfathers have never been shown to monitor and constantly focus their power to prevent ALL the evil entities of their and the others' pantheons from destroying the Earth. That they are doing so, is a very unfounded assumption.
So say some random shmuck with a spaceship armed with a planetbusting laser suddenly warps into orbit and blasts the Earth, you think that would be a smart idea with the Skyfathers around? You think they wouldn't bitchsmack him and then fix the Earth?
No, typically the "evil one" starts to rise and collect his armies, prepare for the destruction of Earth... which is soon sensed by the skyfather who then starts to ready his own forces for a war. It's not like "Phew, Surtur just sent an abstract universal destruction wave which would've destroyed the Nine Worlds and everything else within several parsecs radius in a blink of an eye, but luckily I reacted quicly and prevented it with a magic spell!" No, they operate in WAY smaller scales.
Except Surtur can only do something like that with the Eternal Flame, which the Skyfathers wouldn't have been able to stop, because they don't have power to block a (small) multiverse buster. That's why he was trying to get the Eternal Flame in the first place.
And even if he did somehow manage to destroy the Earth with just his base power (and avoided the subsequent ass-kicking by all of the gods and Skyfathers who survived), that wouldn't accomplish much, because he would still have the rest of the 616 universe to deal with, as well as the other 8 dimensions.
EVERY pantheon is hinted at having created the Earth. Just the boasts and tale-spinnings so typical to the skyfathers. Such arrogance to call oneself the "all-father" when Bor and Buri (Tiwaz) had already travelled the Nine Worlds for countless of ages before Odin and his siblings were even born.
Then that applies to all of them, they all want to protect the Earth. Obviously they have a strong emotional attachment to it and its people. After all, they were worshipped by them.
I can't believe I have to explain this to you, but w/e. That is NOT my argument, that is YOURS. A poorly-constructed straw man. My argument is that there are LOTS and LOTS of "evil" skyfather-level beings in the various pantheons, a couple for every skyfather. Say, Surtur and Ymir for Odin in the Norse mythology, Hades and Cronus for Zeus in the Greek mythology and so on and so on. A large portion of these beings are focused on the destruction of Earth and more. If they had galaxy-busting powers they would do so, very often and very effortlessly.
Because it's not like there are other Skyfathers there to stop them, right?
Let me put it this way: Say you're a mean little kid on the beach, and a group of other kids has built a sandcastle. You can go and kick over their sandcastle, but the other kids will gang up on you and beat you up, and later they can just rebuild the sandcastle. So is it really worth it?
Why do you think Mikaboshi spent so much time amassing such a huge army of gods to attack Earth?
The 616 Celestials, on the other hand, are not a force of destruction but a one of evolution. Occasionally they judge a planet unworthy and then what happens? They casually destroy that planet, regardless of what some local skyfathers think about it. Why? Because they have the power to do it .
Yes and their power is beyond the Skyfathers.
In the 616 universe only ONE celestial has ever desired wide-scale destruction, the Black Celestial. One celestial vs. countless of celestials.
You forgot rogue Celestials from other universes, as seen in the FF arc.
Part 2 (Continued):
Much better starting point for the other celestials to keep in check than what the skyfathers are facing, if we are concerned with the numbers. And even then, the Black Celestial managed to destroy his whole time-line. Why? Because he had the power to do so . He took Galactus, made him crazy and manipulated his being so that he wouldn't become sated no matter how much he ate, and then released him on the Universe. Skyfathers lack such power. Their powers are planet-wide, no more. [/B]
No, their powers are galactic to multi-galactic in scale, with the potential to affect the universe and other dimensions. This has been repeatedly confirmed by on-panel feats, no matter what you would like to think. Destroying the entire universe and timelines is beyond galaxy level, and thus beyond Skyfather level, so I don't see what you're even trying with the Black Celestial argument here.
Besides, the same argument could be reapplied to any cosmic villains from anywhere in the universe or the omniverse. There are beings like Hunger and Asteroth who devour entire universes/multiverses, by your logic they can't do that because Earth would have been eaten already.
Earth is where most comic stories take place, so obviously the writers are not going to randomly destroy it every week. If they want to show off a character destroying planets/stars/galaxies/whatever, they'll do it somewhere else.
Originally posted by Magnon
Oh, and Odin didn't seem to care much about protecting the Earth in Fear Itself. Protecting Earth is in Thor's interests but Odin's primary concern is Asgard.
That's because he was irrationally scared of his big bro and figured the Earth was doomed no matter what.
In the other incidences he was just making sure the collateral damage didn't do much to Earth.
Busting a galaxy should be explained by "Breaking the Law of Causality"
"The user can redirect any cause to any effect, undo anything by inverting the relation cause/effect,or even separate them entirely, making a specific effect impossible to be caused or a specific cause not producing any effect.
This allows one to achieve virtually anything by redirecting the selected cause to the desired effect.
A finger snap which normally causes sound and kinetic force could instead cause a sun explosion or a massive resurrection.
The user could also instantly erase anything from existence, by making it's existence the cause of it's own nonexistence.
Another possibility is the instant rewritting of a whole reality, by making Reality X (the current reality) the cause of Reality Y (a tailor-made one).
At high level, the user would be able to rewrite the laws of causality as a whole, essentially playing God."
This of course will fall into less than a universal radius.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
That's because he was irrationally scared of his big bro and figured the Earth was doomed no matter what.In the other incidences he was just making sure the collateral damage didn't do much to Earth.
Or it could be another one of the laundry list of examples of Fraction destroying Odin's characterization .
Because Odin wasn't scared to go up against the Celestials for the sake of the Earth , even though he knew he was hopelessly outmatched (which was not the case with the Serpent) .
Originally posted by biensalsa
Busting a galaxy should be explained by "Breaking the Law of Causality""The user can redirect any cause to any effect, undo anything by inverting the relation cause/effect,or even separate them entirely, making a specific effect impossible to be caused or a specific cause not producing any effect.
This allows one to achieve virtually anything by redirecting the selected cause to the desired effect.A finger snap which normally causes sound and kinetic force could instead cause a sun explosion or a massive resurrection.
The user could also instantly erase anything from existence, by making it's existence the cause of it's own nonexistence.
Another possibility is the instant rewritting of a whole reality, by making Reality X (the current reality) the cause of Reality Y (a tailor-made one).
At high level, the user would be able to rewrite the laws of causality as a whole, essentially playing God."
This of course will fall into less than a universal radius.
So, ermmm.....Flash/Zoom?
