Iron Fist and Luke Cage vs Wolverine

Originally posted by Mindset
I've read much more Wolverine than IF.

IF 10/10

Maybe, but you also live your life in a meth haze...

Wolverine 10/10

If in doubt, thunderclap.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If in doubt, thunderclap.

That would do more damage to IF than Wolverine. lol

He's standing behind him, fool!

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Maybe, but you also live your life in a meth haze...

Wolverine 10/10

IF 11/10

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's standing behind him, fool!

Because the thunderclap only goes in one direction! dur

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Why even bother to specify that?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It's true Banner-less Hulk was dying, but he was also stronger than Savage Hulk.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The Sam Keith mini was better than both the examples you cited... by like 10 orders of magnitude on a logarithmic scale better. Although I do think it funny that you cite an example from one of the most universally reviled arcs in comic book history, and then have the audacity to write off another example because the book was "awful."

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He got punched to Boston, but he was completely fine. Wolverine tanked being punched across state lines like it was nothing. Which should give you and indication of how much effect the Iron Fist will have on him. Hint: None what-so-ever.

Deathverine amp was the return of his Adamantium, a scimitar that shot a laser, and some other weaponry that he never used against the Hulk... that's it. He wasn't stronger, or faster and his healing factor wasn't amped any, the fact that he was Deathverine is of little to no significance. He got hit a good half a dozen plus times on panel before the Wolverine persona regained control and gave-up, then Apoc summed Deathverine back and said he and Hulk could fight for an eternity before either one of them won (something WWH also said).

Deathverine amp was an amp. Don't force the mods to remind you that amps aren't standard for characters... again.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It is the height of humor that you claim that Wolverine shrugging off class 100 blows is a "bastardization and characterization," then say something like "Thing one shotted Wolverine," as though that holds any weight. How many times have Thing and Wolverine fought? And how many times has Wolverine been one shotted? Same goes for the dozen or so times Wolverine has fought the Hulk. It's blatantly obvious that the example you are citing is the exception not the rule. For every single instance there is of Wolverine being one or two shotted by a class 100 brick there is half a dozen more when he takes those shots in stride like they are nothing. You are using the outlier to formulate your opinion and you have the gale to accuse someone else of creating a bastardize idealization of the character's abilities? What makes you think the minority representation is more valid that majority? The stuff you are citing can be countered by a margin of more than ten to one in a feat war. Not do you low ball Wolverine with bullshit PIS feats, that but in your next breath you purport the merits of the Iron Fist by citing 1 in a 100 examples like the train or helicarrier punch... as though that's the standard for Danny's striking power? 9 out of 10 times the Iron Fist is more or Spider-man, car destroyer level. Dude, I doubt your bias could be any more transparent if you tried.

You wan to battlezone your god damn claim that Iron Fist's best shot won't make Wolverine even bat an eyelid? You're on. Make the topic, smart-mouth. Or shut the phuck up with this horsecrap you're panhandling.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Now you are purposely confusing the issue. You aren't citing flash backs that take place pre 1981 in Wolverine continuity, you are citing actually issues that were published in that time frame. Obviously we know that in current continuity Wolverine has always had a healing factor, but that wasn't always the case, and you are citing issues from before those clarifications were made. Sunspot originally didn't have enhanced durability to go along with his super strength.... the fact that he does now doesn't magically elevate all the feats of people injuring him prior to that point in his history of publication. Welcome to the world of retcons. If you want to cite Flashbacks, feel free to do so... but that is not what you are doing. You are citing examples from a well documented time when the writers had no idea what Wolverine's origin was, what his powers were and hadn't even decided if he was an actually mutant yet, and then pretending like those incidents have a relevant baring in a discussion regarding Wolverine now. They don't. In any issue of Wolverine [b]published before 1981, Wolverine does not have a healing factor.

If you really don't understand the concept of retcons and continuity, I'm sure you can PM one of the mods and have them explain it to you. [/B]

You not liking a few pre-1981 stories where you think "he got beaten too easily" doesn't change that. The fact is, you b1tch and moan more about post-1981 stories where "he got beaten too easily" more than you do about the pre-1981 ones.

IDLI =/= reverse-retcon. Your myth is a sh1tty myth. And it's been busted already.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Because the thunderclap only goes in one direction! dur

Proof:

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And thus the mystery of how a person could come to the absurd notion that Iron Fist could beat Wolverine, was solved.

The only mystery, is how you, of all people, would assume not being a X-fan = not following Wolverine.

Not to mention, Wolverine has only been in EVERYTHING, and he has plenty of stories outside of X-books.

But, perhaps more pertinently:

Notice how:
A: chandeliers do not move, but more importantly;
B: Iron Fist is behind him. Also, note how his own baby is next to him, and is fine, and yet, Hand is thrown backwards a good few feet and shattering some pots. Ergo, its not equally powerful in a 360 degree arc around him.

Originally posted by ODG
Feel free to prove it. In that Savage Land fight, he got overpowered and beaten by a Tyrannosaurus. He experienced such debilitated weakness episodes following his separation with Banner that even Deadpool beat him with a god damn street pole.

He also beat Gladiator and Abom, in the same time frame. Bannerless Hulk was directly stated to be more powerful than the Savage Hulk... that was the entire reason Hulk separated from Banner in the Onslaught Saga. It just happened that there was the negative side effect of the separation killing him.

Originally posted by ODG
The irony of this post cannot be understated. You're taking me to task because I don't care to focus on one particular fight? First, I never said that Savage Hulk has one/two-shotted Wolverine in every single fight they've ever had. Two, who the hell are you to be chastizing others on not taking a particular story's depictions at face value? You try and act like Daniel Way's entire 50-issue run of Wolverine: Origins never happened much less all his beatdowns by street levelers. For phucks sake, you don't even want to count anything published before 1981, short-bus. As for Sam Keith's mini, a god damn polar bear was overpowering the both of them in that Sam Keith mini. Reading that four issue series was like experiencing someone's else's acid trip:

I don't think you understand what the word irony means.

My dismissal of many feats that took place in Wolverine Origins has nothing to do with how terrible the book is and everything to do with the fact that Origins is 50 + issues of poor characterization and misrepresentation of the character based on how he has consistently been portrayed in comics for the last 30 years. Way nerfed Wolverine's (and Deadpool's) power level significantly to the point that it does not fall in like with the majority representation of the character and thus according the KMC forum rule is rendered invalid. The quality of the writing is irrelevant, it could have been the greatest run in Wolverine's history and the net result would be the same. If you don't like it, propose a rule change.

Originally posted by ODG
Deathverine amp was an amp. Don't force the mods to remind you that amps aren't standard for characters... [b]again.
[/B]

Feel free to prove that Deathverine was amped. I'll be waiting. Wolverine got his Adamantium skeleton back. That was the extent of the amp... a return to the Wolverine status quo.

Also FYI, I've never been reminded my mods that amps aren't standard for the characters champ.

Originally posted by ODG
You want to pretend that Wolverine's standard operating status is him shrugging off class 100 blows? Then you need a reminder of all the times he hasn't. And the bluntest way to do that is to remind you of all the times he's been casually one-shotted by class 100s. Sorry that it chafes. You set yourself up for your own disappointment, after all. And your idiotic ultimatums don't mean sh1t to me.

I'm not pretending anything, that is Wolverine's standard "operating status." You are the one dreaming up fairy tales and trying to build a case on the back of PIS by low balling the character. You don't need to apologize for any chafing, because you can't cite enough examples of Wolverine being "casually one-shotted by class 100s" to warrant even a mild skin irritation. You and I both know that for every single example of Wolverine being one shotted by a class 100, there are half a dozen of him eating those blows in stride. There is no debate to be had here, but by all means feel free to continue making yourself look like a fool by perusing this idiotic train of thought.

Originally posted by ODG
You wan to battlezone your god damn claim that Iron Fist's best shot won't make Wolverine even bat an eyelid? You're on. Make the topic, smart-mouth. Or shut the phuck up with this horsecrap you're panhandling. Shut the phuck up.

Easiest ****ing Battlezone ever, I'll take that challenge any time you want buddy and laugh all the way to the bank.

Originally posted by ODG
Wolverine in the past had a healing factor. He had a healing factor after he hit puberty. All of his past historical flashback stories show that. In every issue published before 1981, he had a healing factor. 1977 Wolverine doesn't survive getting punched into lunar orbit by Jahf without it. 1978 Wolverine even mentioned he had accelerated healing explicitly. And him having a healing factor was the only god damn explanation for him surviving adamantium being bonded to his entire skeletal structure which was a mystery almost from the god damn beginning. He obviously had a healing factor, and it being explicitly detailed later only makes its presence in prior stories obvious in retrospect.

facepalm

Again: You are confusing continuity with publication history. Wolverine had a healing factor when he hit puberty and x gene activated???? No shit, Sherlock. That isn't the issue. You aren't citing flash backs or other stories told in the past after the revelation that Wolverine had a healing factor was made, you are citing issues that were published before a healing factor was written into the character and pretend that the hold the same weight. Well, they don't. Wolverine told Storm not to worry because "He healed fast," a throw a way one liner, nothing more, and nothing less. A line that has been said in hundreds of movies, by hundreds of human characters, hell Punisher has sad THE. EXACT. SAME. THING. and he doesn't have a healing factor. Now it might have been the impetus of Wolverine's future origin, the seed that resulted in Clarmont later giving Wolverine a healing factor... but that seed didn't bloom until 1981 in Uncanny X-Men 142. He survived being punched into orbit because he had an undefined level of invulnerability, not a healing factor. Both Bullseye and Hammerhead, have had their skeleton's partially and fully, respectably, replaced with Adamantium... and neither of them has any sort of healing factor. If the comic was published before 1981, Wolverine didn't have a healing factor. If it came after that point... he did. Do you understand why you saying "HE HADA HEALING FACTORZ WHEN HE PUPERTY!121!!!!" is of no relevance? All those stories came after 1981... and were building on the established Wolverine mythos and the powers that he was established as having in Uncanny X-Men 142.

Originally posted by ODG
You not liking a few pre-1981 stories where you think "he got beaten too easily" doesn't change that. [b]The fact is, you b1tch and moan more about post-1981 stories where "he got beaten too easily" more than you do about the pre-1981 ones.
[/B]

What are you even mewling about? Claremont's run on Uncanny X-Men is a decade and a half of gold. I like it... almost everyone likes it, like I said a few posts ago, it's a universally praised and seminal run. None of which changes that fact that in the issues being discussed right now, the writing and editorial staff had not yet decided what Wolverine's powers were. Uncanny X-Men 142 is the first appearance of Wolverine's healing factor and it is referenced constantly from that point onward as being Wolverine's mutant ability. Prior to that he had some nebulous and ill-defined abilities, and those issues don't hold any relevance as harvest material for Wolverine feats. Now can you stop braying, and start composing and actually relevant counter point... or are you going to continue with this embarrassing charade?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But, perhaps more pertinently:

Notice how:
A: chandeliers do not move, but more importantly;
B: Iron Fist is behind him. Also, note how his own baby is next to him, and is fine, and yet, Hand is thrown backwards a good few feet and shattering some pots. Ergo, its not equally powerful in a 360 degree arc around him.

PIS, if it had been handled correctly... Luke would have murdered his baby. 😎

Stop lowballing the baby....

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Dude you troll so hard, the mods should change your name to Chael Sonnen.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He also beat Gladiator and Abom, in the same time frame. Bannerless Hulk was directly stated to be more powerful than the Savage Hulk... that was the entire reason Hulk separated from Banner in the Onslaught Saga. It just happened that there was the negative side effect of the separation killing him.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't think you understand what the word irony means.

My dismissal of many feats that took place in Wolverine Origins has nothing to do with how terrible the book is and everything to do with the fact that Origins is 50 + issues of poor characterization and misrepresentation of the character based on how he has consistently been portrayed in comics for the last 30 years. Way nerfed Wolverine's (and Deadpool's) power level significantly to the point that it does not fall in like with the majority representation of the character and thus [b]according the KMC forum rule is rendered invalid. The quality of the writing is irrelevant, it could have been the greatest run in Wolverine's history and the net result would be the same. If you don't like it, propose a rule change.[/b]

Wolverine: Origins ran for over 4 years. Before 1981, Wolverine was around for 7 years. You are in no position to judge anyone on who is being picky and choosy over what comics they're not taking at face value. Your flimsy, carefree treatment of over a decade's worth of Wolverine's appearances finds no justification in the rules. They're canon. They're not SMvFL or BPvSS. That's what PIS is. Not your childish hand-wringing over Wolverine being given a hard time by streets, much less Hulk.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Feel free to prove that Deathverine was amped. I'll be waiting. Wolverine got his Adamantium skeleton back. That was the extent of the amp... a return to the Wolverine status quo.

Also FYI, I've never been reminded my mods that amps aren't standard for the characters champ.

Let's not revive the Hellverine debacle.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm not pretending anything, that [b]is Wolverine's standard "operating status." You are the one dreaming up fairy tales and trying to build a case on the back of PIS by low balling the character. You don't need to apologize for any chafing, because you can't cite enough examples of Wolverine being "casually one-shotted by class 100s" to warrant even a mild skin irritation. You and I both know that for every single example of Wolverine being one shotted by a class 100, there are half a dozen of him eating those blows in stride. There is no debate to be had here, but by all means feel free to continue making yourself look like a fool by perusing this idiotic train of thought.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4q07hAV7E1rnfdl2.gif

Easiest ****ing Battlezone ever, I'll take that challenge any time you want buddy and laugh all the way to the bank.[/b]

Do it now in the Battlezone forum. Five posts each. We'll pick judges afterwards or let a mod pick judges. I don't want you slinking away from this like so many others do.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
facepalm

Again: You are confusing continuity with publication history. Wolverine had a healing factor when he hit puberty and x gene activated???? No shit, Sherlock. That isn't the issue. You aren't citing flash backs or other stories told in the past after the revelation that Wolverine had a healing factor was made, you are citing issues that were published before a healing factor was written into the character and pretend that the hold the same weight. Well, they don't. Wolverine told Storm not to worry because "He healed fast," a throw a way one liner, nothing more, and nothing less. A line that has been said in hundreds of movies, by hundreds of human characters, hell Punisher has sad THE. EXACT. SAME. THING. and he doesn't have a healing factor. Now it might have been the impetus of Wolverine's future origin, the seed that resulted in Clarmont later giving Wolverine a healing factor... but that seed didn't bloom until 1981 in Uncanny X-Men 142. He survived being punched into orbit because he had an undefined level of invulnerability, not a healing factor. Both Bullseye and Hammerhead, have had their skeleton's partially and fully, respectably, replaced with Adamantium... and neither of them has any sort of healing factor. If the comic was published before 1981, Wolverine didn't have a healing factor. If it came after that point... he did. Do you understand why you saying "HE HADA HEALING FACTORZ WHEN HE PUPERTY!121!!!!" is of no relevance? All those stories came after 1981... and were building on the established Wolverine mythos and the powers that he was established as having in Uncanny X-Men 142.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What are you even mewling about? Claremont's run on Uncanny X-Men is a decade and a half of gold. I like it... almost everyone likes it, like I said a few posts ago, it's a universally praised and seminal run. None of which changes that fact that in the issues being discussed right now, the writing and editorial staff had not yet decided what Wolverine's powers were. Uncanny X-Men 142 is the first appearance of Wolverine's healing factor and it is referenced constantly from that point onward as being Wolverine's mutant ability. Prior to that he had some nebulous and ill-defined abilities, and those issues don't hold any relevance as harvest material for Wolverine feats. Now can you stop braying, and start composing and actually relevant counter point... or are you going to continue with this embarrassing charade?

Now you can stop with your 5-year old whining and crying about "NO! THAS NOTS FAIR!!!! WOLVERINE HAZZED NO POWERS BACK THEN, U NOT ALLOWED TO TALKS ABOUTS EM!!!!!" Every time Wolverine gets beat up by a street leveler, or anything less than an atom bomb, you make the same god damn excuse about his healing factor. And we're all tired of hearing about it.

Now make that battlezone and don't you b1tch out.

God dam...

This is basically Logan vs IF all over again. No disrespect to Cage but he will get skewered almost instantly. Logan will go after him first.

Originally posted by ODG
Right, and lost to a Tyrannosaurus and Deadpool... badly in the same time frame. He fluctuated enormously. Translation: "Waah waah waah. The comics I don't like, some spanning several years of continuity... I don't like and I am allowed to pretend they never happened! But you're nt allowed to like a Sam Keith mini where Wolverine looked good against Hulk even though Wolverine and Hulk get slapped around by a polar bear !!!!"

Wolverine: Origins ran for over 4 years. Before 1981, Wolverine was around for 7 years. You are in no position to judge anyone on who is being picky and choosy over what comics they're not taking at face value. Your flimsy, carefree treatment of over a decade's worth of Wolverine's appearances finds no justification in the rules. They're canon. They're not SMvFL or BPvSS. That's what PIS is. Not your childish hand-wringing over Wolverine being given a hard time by streets, much less Hulk. He walked right through Cyclops beam easily, no sold a blind-sided suckershot from Colossus and zapped Colossus with his gauntlet. To quote Bugs Bunny, "Don't be such a maroon!"

Let's not revive the Hellverine debacle. Make the battlezone topic over this issue: "The best Iron Fist could muster wouldn't make Wolverine bat an eye lid... he might as well spray Wolverine with saline solution for all the good it will do."

Do it now in the Battlezone forum. Five posts each. We'll pick judges afterwards or let a mod pick judges. I don't want you slinking away from this like so many others do. You don't need to write an essay to prove how stupid you are. Wolverine was a mysterious character. Like any mysterious character, they didn't reveal all his cards from the very beginning. You can't separate out the history from the character and pretend that all his feats that show extraordinary healing, feats that could not have been possible without extraordinary healing, his very nature as having adamantium completely bonded to every single bone in his body, as somehow not having a healing factor. This bs myth that Wolverine was some malformed amorphous character is nothing but bs. Per canon, he had a healing factor ever since his mutation kicked in. Per publishing, he had feats that show he has accelerated healing otherwise he would have died. Had there been a single statement where Wolverine or another character noted that Wolverine doesn't heal any better than a normal human, you'd have an argument. As it stands, you have no evidence that he positively had no healing factor. Stop trying to pretend it never happened then. You have no on-panel evidence that he had no healing factor. You don't even have an editor's/ writer's interview saying he had no healing factor (even though per KMC forum rules, those are inadmissable). Wolverine wasn't nebulous, he wasn't ill-defined. He was a mutant, he had "powers," he was really strong, really fast, freakishly durable even though he could be occasionally ktfo, he had adamantium, he went into berserker rages, embarassed others in training sessions, he was a trained operative for the Canadian government, he said "bub," he was mysterious (in that there's-more-to-him-than-meets-the-eye type of way), he could survive being sent into lunar orbit by Jahf, shrug off being engulfed in flame, was noted to heal extremely fast, and was capable of fighting with the Hulk and Wendigo.

Now you can stop with your 5-year old whining and crying about "NO! THAS NOTS FAIR!!!! WOLVERINE HAZZED NO POWERS BACK THEN, U NOT ALLOWED TO TALKS ABOUTS EM!!!!!" Every time Wolverine gets beat up by a street leveler, or anything less than an atom bomb, you make the same god damn excuse about his healing factor. And we're all tired of hearing about it.

Now make that battlezone and don't you b1tch out.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Do you understand why you saying "HE HADA HEALING FACTORZ WHEN HE PUPERTY!121!!!!" is of no relevance?

Dang it srank. I was enjoying my coffee up until I read that. 😆