Madara Uchiha vs Monster Aizen

Originally posted by socool8520
Mu is able to dodge better than most because he is a sensory type. He doesn't really have to be that fast because he senses it coming. These scans only prove that he can sense things better than the other kages. Same with the Naruto feat. Even Oonoki inferred it was because he was a sensor. As for the Madara and Muu movement thing, I don't really see how that equates to Madara being faster. They jumped in oppsite directions.

Thanks to his Chakra sensing, Mū can react faster than other Kage, and he can move fast enough to evade Naruto. Madara is not a demonstrated chakra sensor like Mū, and yet he can still react and move faster than Mū; as shown by how he's covered a greater distance than Mū, despite being closer to the Sand than Mū was, meaning it would have hit him first.

Originally posted by socool8520
This doesn't prove much. A was moving downwards. So he was coming down as fast as gravity allows. That's shit compared to most speed feat in the Manga. i would have been more impressed with the sand blocking Gaara from being hit with a kick from 5 gates Lee.

A may have been moving downwards, but his ass was millimeters away from Sasuke's attack. Gaara's Sand still intercepted it. That would be faster than anything 5 Gates Lee has demonstrated.
Gaara's Sand has also moved fast enough to block point-blank explosions.

Part 1 Gaara is nothing compared to current Gaara when it comes to the speed of his Sand.

Originally posted by socool8520
I find this example to be much different than what you are comparing with Madara. This guy is moving so fast they can't react at all.

I'm not saying Madara moved faster than Aizen. I'm saying Madara 'blitzed' the Kage much like Aizen 'blitzed' the Captains.

I still think Aizen is far faster than any Naruto character.

Not to mention the reason they don't seem to be able to react probably has less to do with his speed and more to do with...well you know.

Because they'd just stabbed Hinamori in the chest?

Or are you talking about the Kages? Because to be fair they were flying around on Gaaras sand at the time. Hardly an optimum position to dodge.

Was referring to the Aizen fight. And probably because they were never talking to Aizen anyway. He takes them out at the time so I assume he was using his Shikai.

Looking back on it, shouldn't Aizen have basically been able to kill a person without touching them. His shikai could instantly cause a great amount of pain since touch is one of the five senses.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because they'd just stabbed Hinamori in the chest?

Or are you talking about the Kages? Because to be fair they were flying around on Gaaras sand at the time. Hardly an optimum position to dodge.

Also, poor Hinamori. Aizen trolling the Captains was lulzy, but Hinamori got massacred in the process.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Was referring to the Aizen fight. And probably because they were never talking to Aizen anyway. He takes them out at the time so I assume he was using his Shikai.

Looking back on it, shouldn't Aizen have basically been able to kill a person without touching them. His shikai could instantly cause a great amount of pain since touch is one of the five senses.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That, and he could have easily used Kyouka Suigetsu once again.

Also, poor Hinamori. Aizen trolling the Captains was lulzy, but Hinamori got massacred in the process.

There are alot of things Aizen could have done with with his shikai that he was too stupid to try. He could have just shut down all of their senses at once. They wouldn't be able to see or hear him and they wouldn't have been able to move since they would have lacked a sense of feeling.

Pretty much all they could do was sense rietsu since thats a 6th sense.

Basically Tosens bankai except even better.

Looking back, I have to think he was using his Shikai to take them out. I mean, he used it on Captain Doggy and these guys are above him(Including Hitsugaya...I think Captain Doggy is the weakest of the Captains though).

And DP, no one cares about her. Everyone cares about the momentous moment a few seconds later where Toshiro's balls finally dropped.

Hmm...I think it would be more fair if this was regular old Aizen. Monster Aizen is...well an idiot.

He apparently did not use his Shikai to take out those two Vizard captains. srug
Though the nature of his shikai makes it impossible to truly tell what was imaginary and what was real in a scene involving Aizen that also did not involve Ichigo.

You mean the momentous moment a few seconds later where Toshiro finally realized what a douchebag he is and gave us the lulziest moment in the manga.

Goes to show just how broken Aizen's intelligence and Shikai were as far as Bleach is concerned.

Im throwing my 2cents in replying to the original vs stated in the beginning.

First thing. Chakra vs reiatsu/reishi (ignore typos)

Chakra is the manifestation of both the physical and mental/spiritual energies within a person.

Reiatsu is the pressure or weight and reishi is the energy of a soul. Spirits can only be harmed by spirit energy, or constructs made of spirit particles. This comes from when Ichigo just got his powers back and had to knock urahara's hat off. Ichigo wasnt worried about Urahara's sword until he learned it was a zanpaktou

From this alone. Most chakra based attacks will only have about 50 percent of their max power against Aizen. Attacks where the chakra balance is different will still not be as effective. This does not go both ways as seen numerous times that reiatsu is potent enough to cause physical disturbances to the living world e.g. Changing the weather. Or the Fullbring manipulating the physical world by controlling the spirit of inert matter.

So even if madara can see him he cant battle him effectively. Taijutsu would be uselss as only about fifty percent of any blow would 'hit'aizen. Genjutsu as well, Aizen lacks the componet of physical energy for it to affect his brain since genjutsu afrects chakra and the chakra netwrok.

Aizen's illusions function differently and affect all the senses. Judging by this i would say Aizen hacks your nervous system through your optic nerves and controls what your brain perceives as reality. This makes aizen immune to genjutsu and makes the rinnegan/sharingan useless interms of a escape mechanism.

In terms of speed they are about equal. So a quick drawn sneak attack would not work on either of them.

Kidou Trumps ninjutsu, in both speed and stopping power. Aizen could pull a minato and open a garganta and swallow a bijuudama if not block it out right with a Danku.

Aizen will win this fight without needing to release his sword. All he needs to do is knock madara out of his physical body. If a low rank hollow can do it to Orihime then Aizen should also be able to. If he releases his sword he just does the same thing. This negates the Edo Tensei body of madara.

Once in spirit form, Aizen would most likely take madara for testing or just out right destroy his soul.

End of the day It would be a spectacular fight. Aizen toying (as seen in bleach, had he been serious from the start he would have won(e.g. Kill ichigo in his sleep)) with Madara then curbstomping him when he lands a good hit. (Illusions are so OP)

Nope. 👆

Um, are you guys high?

Edo Tensei Madara with Rinnegan could summon town busting meteors with a gesture. He soloed the Gokage in seconds after he started going all out. He cut five mountains in half with a swing of his perfect Susano'o's blade before he even had Rinnegan. He could literally absorb any attacks Aizen could dish out, and could counter his sword ability easily with his simple sharingan. Plus, I'm pretty sure Aizen can't use his shikai in that mode anyways.

@ Swartjas: Madara is much faster and stronger than Aizen. Not to mention he can read his movements with Sharingan.

Kido? When has Kido been shown capable of doing anything remotely CLOSE to what Madara unsheathing his sword does? Madara cut two mountains in half just by taking his sword out. Kido has never been able to even reach city busting level, except for this incantation of Aizen. Even city busting is nothing to Madara though, who was able to easily block a country busting biju bomb from Naruto without even damaging the fan he used to block it.

Aizen's shikai IS Genjutsu. However, it's not even on Tsukiyomi level. Madara's base Genjutsu can do the exact same thing Aizen's shikai can. Tsukiyomi, which was overpowered by Sasuke's base Genjutsu, alters time itself, while doing exactly what Aizen's shikai does, but to an even greater extent.

That little assumption you made about Chakra and Spiritual energy is retarded. Naruto grabbed his own soul back from Nagato with chakra alone. This alone proves that Chakra easily affects Spiritual energy.

It was stated by Pein that anyone who has come into contact with a spirit can become aware of them. That's why you can see the devil when he uses the path to seal your soul.

Orihime's brother didn't "knock her sould out of her body", he killed her and she was caught out of her body because no one had taken her to heaven or hell yet.

Their speeds are not equal. No one in Bleach has even been stated to be a certain speed. It's prudent however, that they are not nearly as fast as Naruto characters. It took Ichigo about five seconds to fly with Aizen in his hand the distance of Karakura town. Madara was able to toss around attacks that he and Hashirama reacted to and dodged that traveled across oceans in about the same amount of time. He was able to solo five people that could move extremely fast, one who was faster than lightning. He dodged Biju bombs, attacks that could travel to other continents in less than thirty seconds.

No one in Bleach has feats even CLOSE to holding a candle to anything that even mid-tear Naruto characters do easily. Deidara was able to fly faster than C4 explodes. Nagato, a higher tier character, was able to effortlessly stomp two characters who were faster than lightning.

Aizen's strongest witnessed attack was incapable of destroying Karakura town. He's pathetic compared to Madara. 👆

Madara would literally knock of Aizens head with a single flick of his Susano'o as soon as the fight started.

kyoka suigetsu is a deadly illusion based technique that can only be negated by touching aizens sword. Madar would lose just for the sole fact that aizen illusion techs are stronger and arent ever detected until its too late. plus the hogyuoku continuously makes his power grow

Originally posted by yungz22
kyoka suigetsu is a deadly illusion based technique that can only be negated by touching aizens sword. Madar would lose just for the sole fact that aizen illusion techs are stronger and arent ever detected until its too late. plus the hogyuoku continuously makes his power grow

First off, Aizen can't use his sword techs in this mode.

Secondly, Aizen's illusion could be negated by Madara's genjutsu because that's specifically what one of Sharingan's specialties is. It gives the user the ability to negate any non-sharingan based illusion. You can only defy sharingan Genjutsu with another sharingan, or a partner to release it. Madara is much stronger than Aizen, and can activate Genjutsu presumably by pointing, since Itachi could as well. All Madara needs to do is look at Aizen and he's caught. Not to mention that Madara can sense chakra and pin-point it with enough accuracy to feel Aizen trying to attack him. No matter what, sharingan can see chakra, and Aizen can't block your sense of chakra, so Kyoka Suigetsu is useless against an uchiha with sharingan.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
First off, Aizen can't use his sword techs in this mode.

Secondly, Aizen's illusion could be negated by Madara's genjutsu because that's specifically what one of Sharingan's specialties is. It gives the user the ability to negate any non-sharingan based illusion. You can only defy sharingan Genjutsu with another sharingan, or a partner to release it. Madara is much stronger than Aizen, and can activate Genjutsu presumably by pointing, since Itachi could as well. All Madara needs to do is look at Aizen and he's caught. Not to mention that Madara can sense chakra and pin-point it with enough accuracy to feel Aizen trying to attack him. No matter what, sharingan can see chakra, and Aizen can't block your sense of chakra, so Kyoka Suigetsu is useless against an uchiha with sharingan.

who says he cant use illusions in that form can you confirm that. Just because he didnt doesnt mean he cant. Nothing was stated saying they Aizen couldnt use kyoka suigetsu. Aizen didnt use it against Ichigo becuase he was the only shinigami who had never seen it and it only works on those who have. Why do you think he was the only one who noticed hinamori get stabbed by toshiro.

Also aizen has attacks like hado 90 which is a spell that distorts space /time. Madara cant beat that. Also aizen is physically more durable and faster than madara with his shunpo. Bleach characters take a great deal more damage than naruto charaters do..... Also the only mangekyou techniques weve seen madara use is susanoo, it hasnt been confirmed that hes capable of intense genjutsu like tsukuyomi.

Also you forget about spiritual pressure aizen has exerted way more energy with than madara has with or with or without the hogyoku. madara wouldnt be able to even pierce him with a sword if we go by he rules of bleach

Also you forget about spiritual pressure aizen has exerted way more energy with than madara has with or with or without the hogyoku. madara wouldnt be able to even pierce him with a sword if we go by he rules of bleach

Not really. Madara has crazy amounts of energy, his Final Susano'o sword surpasses the power of final Aizen's.

mangekyou sharingan techniques are unique to their users... For example Izanagi, Izanami kamui, and Koto Amatsukami have only been used by select ppl in the Uchiha clan. Even Amaterasu is only unique to sasuke and itachi. Sasuke has the best control over the black fire using inferno style (enton). And only itachi has ever used Tsukuyomi... heck even their susanoo are unique

Originally posted by Q99
Not really. Madara has crazy amounts of energy, his Final Susano'o sword surpasses the power of final Aizen's.

Aizen is stronger than those 5 kage.... Has Madara's chakra alone ever brought anyone to thier knees and paralyzed them......not by jutsu but just by mere presence no.

Originally posted by yungz22
Has Madara's chakra alone ever brought anyone to thier knees and paralyzed them......not by jutsu but just by mere presence no.

So? In Naruto, you gotta purposefully let it loose, they're better at containing their energy. Doesn't change they have better output when they want to.

Orochimaru can bring someone to their knees or walk past them without alerting a sensitive person.

Originally posted by Q99
So? In Naruto, you gotta purposefully let it loose, they're better at containing their energy. Doesn't change they have better output when they want to.

Orochimaru can bring someone to their knees or walk past them without alerting a sensitive person.

orochimaru uses a paralyzing genjutsu when he does that. If you can remember both sasuke and sakura envisioned killing themselves... even so all sasuke did was cut himself out of the kunai and he was out of it. Spiritual pressure is so unique that if you dont fight with equal or more pressure your techniques wont even harm your opponent. Aizen did this with renji, Soi Fon and rose and weve seen it with kenpachi and and ichigo. Spiritual pressure by itself destroys environments around you. Madara has never shown this type of pressure when he is in anyones pressure.... this means tht his attacks would be null and void against aizen. plus you guys forget that the hogyoku continously works at evolving the user aizen is only going to get stronger and stronger if it werent for kisuke aizen would have beaten ichigo

Originally posted by yungz22
who says he cant use illusions in that form can you confirm that. Just because he didnt doesnt mean he cant. Nothing was stated saying they Aizen couldnt use kyoka suigetsu. Aizen didnt use it against Ichigo becuase he was the only shinigami who had never seen it and it only works on those who have. Why do you think he was the only one who noticed hinamori get stabbed by toshiro.

Also aizen has attacks like hado 90 which is a spell that distorts space /time. Madara cant beat that. Also aizen is physically more durable and faster than madara with his shunpo. Bleach characters take a great deal more damage than naruto charaters do..... Also the only mangekyou techniques weve seen madara use is susanoo, it hasnt been confirmed that hes capable of intense genjutsu like tsukuyomi.

Also you forget about spiritual pressure aizen has exerted way more energy with than madara has with or with or without the hogyoku. madara wouldnt be able to even pierce him with a sword if we go by he rules of bleach

Aizen didn't use Kyoka Suigetsu on Ichigo when they first fought because he knew he didn't have to. That's not true at all. Anyone who has seen it falls under it, but you can't be retarded enough to think that he can't cast it on other people. He didn't use it on Ichigo when he was possessed by the Hogyoku because he couldn't. Otherwise he would have. Why do you think that he didn't use it on Ichigo's dad and/or Yoroichi? He couldn't. 👆

No one other than Itachi can use Tsukiyomi, unless you count infinite Tsukiyomi which requires the Jyuubi. Madara CAN however use genjutsu on a big enough scale to control the minds of Bijuu, and even the Jyuubi, both of which are MUCH stronger than Aizen. You know what Naruto attacks warp space and time? Casual bunshin that even chunnin level ninja can use, and other bunshin techniques like Hiraishin. That means nothing. Aizen using his strongest attack in his strongest form did less than town busting damage, which would render that Kido attack, Hado number 99, useless. Unless you're saying that Kido was stronger than an even stronger form of Aizen's strongest attack. It's destructive force was nothing compared to something like Naruto's biju bomb, Madara's meteor, almighty push or really anything that Madara has casually dished out.

How do Bleach characters take more damage when they can't dish out nearly as much damage? A hogyoku form Aizen blast that burned Ichigo's arm and failed to destroy a single town is nothing compared to Madara dropping multiple meteors with a gesture, capable of destroying entire countries. Not to mention that Madara was able to shot Yasaka Magatama and Biju balls that Hashirama dodged, that traveled entire oceans in less than five seconds before destroying entire villages. Again, Madara slashing once cut five mountains in half. Ichigo, who was much stronger than Aizen, parrying a slash with his AND Aizen's force only cut one in half.

Shunpo isn't the same speed for all shinigami. Aizen's shunpo is still not anywhere near as fast as Gin's bankai, which was calced to be less than mach 50. Aizen wasn't even able to outrun the explosion of Yamamoto's shikai, which explodes at roughly mach 24. Going from the maps in Naruto, the ocean Madara's blast covered was about the size of the pacific ocean. Since the blast traveled through the bulk of it's distance, we can infer from scaling that it was around 12,300 miles long. Calcing that it traveled that in five seconds, the blast was going around 8,856,000 mph, or mach 11,531. Hashirama dodged this easily, meaning his reaction speed is above that. Madara with Rinnegan was even stronger and faster, meaning he is well above mach 11,531, at least with reaction speed.

Again, Madara is MUCH faster and stronger than Aizen, i.e. he wins. Plus he can absorb anything Aizen shoots at him with rinnegan, as well as completely restrict his movements by using almighty push and universal pull at the same time. That along with the fact that he can simply change the landscape by unsheathing his sword proves that he would shit on Aizen.