Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Did this guy just say the Naruto continent = Planet? What the actual **** man.
he loves madara what can i say.
im trying to explain to him how spiritual pressure works and hes missing the whole point and thinking it works ht e same as chakra.
but even so thats besides the point.
he still is failing to show any feats that dematerailization the same as shunpo
look at my next post and tell me if you agree
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Did this guy just say the Naruto continent = Planet? What the actual **** man.
"As you can see, the lands are joined together, making it a supercontinent. The lightning country takes up more than a seventh of its land mass. This means? The lightning country is the size of a large continent, like South America."
Maybe you just can't read.
Originally posted by yungz22
he loves madara what can i say.im trying to explain to him how spiritual pressure works and hes missing the whole point and thinking it works ht e same as chakra.
but even so thats besides the point.he still is failing to show any feats that dematerailization the same as shunpo
look at my next post and tell me if you agree
You're still failing to show any feats that dematerialization is different than shunpo. 👆 All you can do is speculate on this, but since Ichigo was faster than his dematerialization, you can infer(if you're not a phucking retard), that it is the same as shunpo. 😉
In a versus thread, they are the same. AGAIN, IT DOES NOT MATTER BECAUSE AIZEN HAS SHOWN NO FEATS OF DOING EVEN HALF OF WHAT MADARA HAS, SO EITHER WAY, MADARA SHITS ON HIM. 👆
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
"As you can see, the lands are joined together, making it a supercontinent. The lightning country takes up more than a seventh of its land mass. This means? The lightning country is the size of a large continent, like South America."Maybe you just can't read.
You can't just make that shit up dude. We have no indication in this series that the Five Ninja nations=a planet. Just because Kishi didn't specify something doesn't mean you can automatically infer what it is.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaThis is the planet of Naruto. As you can see, the lands are joined together, making it a supercontinent. The lightning country takes up more than a seventh of its land mass. This means? The lightning country is the size of a large continent, like South America. 👆
The only genjutsu that requires eye contact in all of Naruto is Tsukiyomi. Most genjutsu require seals or hand signs. If you have sharingan however, you can cast adept Uchiha genjutsu that only requires visual contact, or in Itachi's case, pointing. Hell, even Izanami only required you to utter the name of the attack.
The Jyuubi's chakra made the meteor that Madara conjured with a gesture before he even had a single Biju? No, Madara summoned the town sized meteor, that could continent bust, which is why Onoki said they needed to stop it or the war would be over. 👆
For the last time you dense phuck, that is the same for EVERY action series. If you are stronger than someone to a great extent, they can't hurt you. Again, the Bleach characters only have reiatsu, which is active permanently because they are souls. Naruto characters have to summon their chakra with their will, it isn't being used unless they want it to be. It doesn't matter though, because Madara has VASTLY superior strength, durability, speed and energy feats. 👆
Ichigo couldn't cut Grimmjow because of his hierro, retard. Just fyi, that's spiritual resistance.
"Shunpo isn't the same speed for all shinigami. Aizen's shunpo is still not anywhere near as fast as Gin's bankai, which was calced to be less than mach 50. Aizen wasn't even able to outrun the explosion of Yamamoto's shikai, which explodes at roughly mach 24. Going from the maps in Naruto, the ocean Madara's blast covered was about the size of the pacific ocean. Since the blast traveled through the bulk of it's distance, we can infer from scaling that it was around 12,300 miles long. Calcing that it traveled that in five seconds, the blast was going around 8,856,000 mph, or mach 11,531. Hashirama dodged this easily, meaning his reaction speed is above that. Madara with Rinnegan was even stronger and faster, meaning he is well above mach 11,531, at least with reaction speed. "
If you're too stupid to understand simple mathematics, that's your problem, not mine.
Calculations happen to be much more reliable than your fanboy assumptions of Aizen being faster than lightning. 👆
As I explained a hundred times already, the hogyoku only powers you up to a certain extent, as the scans I've posted prove. 👆
Ok what do you have to say about kenpachi not being cut by ichigo's sword ok and how is hiero pierced? why it can only be pierced if someone high enough spiritual pressure can cut it. Madara isnt immune to swords or knifes he has to use
We both know that aizen didnt dodge yama's attack because yama grabbed his foot while his back was turned
im not gonna argue with you about the whole juubi thing even though i dont think the whole lighting country was destroyed but rather just the cloud village or where ever the head quarters is. because that stuff doesnt matter. Azien isnt fighting the juubi hes fighting madara.
If we go by the rules of naruto if someone injects energy into you while under genjutsu. That genjutsu will be broken. well as a metter of fact aizen hs the hogyoku which has a mind of its own as well as constantly pumps energy into its host. as a result genjutsu wont be of much help against aizen. Also aizen doesnt even have a chakra network. hes not a human hes a spirit so one could argue that genjutsu might not even affect aizen.
that regen feat you put up is edo madara... Aizen isnt fighting edo madara hes fighting regular human madara so if he was to use the meteor hed be killing himself. Hell the meteor didnt even kill oonoki. he got up moments later and was giving speeches about the will of stone. and yes he may have made one meteor lighter he didnt make the second one lighter so in fact he did take the force of two meteors.
Also madara is not trained in reatsu he is just a human so it is true that infact that aizen could crush madara with his spiritual pressure. even those who are trained in the art of reatsu (grimmjow) are brought down to their knee. by the pressure it causes
it doesnt work like chakra. reatsu and chakra are two totally things i keep trying to explan it to you but your totally disregarding the facts.
and im not done
shunpo means flash step it is the user moving at extremely fast speeds. is a movement technique, which allows the user to move faster than the eye can follow. The focal point which determines the basis of this technique is speed. As speed is the main point of the technique, the method is best characterized by how fast one can get from point A to point B in the least amount of steps.
dematerializing yourself and appearing somewhere else is teleportation much different than shunpo aizen is capable of this...... the 4th hokage and second hokage are the only two in the naruto verse capable of this when the criterias are met
Madara has no speed feats that put him close to aizens. i dont like using calculations but since your so gung ho on it lets use calcs plus logic its been. Its been calculated that KCM Naruto is hypersonic you should agree with that because thats what your alluding to earlier. in the soul society arc we see captians like byakuaya and yoroichi travel vast distances using flash steps. ichigo when he uses bankai against byakuya has been calculated at hypersonic in the ss arc. ichigos speed was overwhelming byakuya. That same arc Aizen stopped with ichigo's attack his finger. This is an example of his reaction time and how overwhelming spiritual pressure negates all attakcs now throughout the series ichigo grows stronger and faster after mastering hollowfication. but still having a hard time with grimmjow. at that time aizen is faster than both. this puts aizen casually at hypersonic plus. and hes only going to get faster as the series progresses with the crysillis transformations by the end of the series putting him at high hypersonic+ just using power scale logic aizen at the end of the series is leagues faster than anyone in the naruto series.
Madara has no speed feats. you just insulting me and stating madara is faster with no real feats is not going to convince anyone.
speed advantage aizen
what actual movement feats does madara have?
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
You can't just make that shit up dude. We have no indication in this series that the Five Ninja nations=a planet. Just because Kishi didn't specify something doesn't mean you can automatically infer what it is.
I'm not making shit up "dude". You're even dumber than I originally assumed if you think that the ninja world is one continent. They wouldn't call it a world if it wasn't a planet, retard. Kakashi showed a diagram of the world, and it showed exactly what I posted, but with less detail. 👆
Originally posted by yungz22
shunpo means flash step it is the user moving at extremely fast speeds. is a movement technique, which allows the user to move faster than the eye can follow. The focal point which determines the basis of this technique is speed. As speed is the main point of the technique, the method is best characterized by how fast one can get from point A to point B in the least amount of steps.dematerializing yourself and appearing somewhere else is teleportation much different than shunpo aizen is capable of this...... the 4th hokage and second hokage are the only two in the naruto verse capable of this when the criterias are met
Madara has no speed feats that put him close to aizens. i dont like using calculations but since your so gung ho on it lets use calcs plus logic its been. Its been calculated that KCM Naruto is hypersonic you should agree with that because thats what your alluding to earlier. in the soul society arc we see captians like byakuaya and yoroichi travel vast distances using flash steps. ichigo when he uses bankai against byakuya has been calculated at hypersonic in the ss arc. ichigos speed was overwhelming byakuya. That same arc Aizen stopped with ichigo's attack his finger. This is an example of his reaction time and how overwhelming spiritual pressure negates all attakcs now throughout the series ichigo grows stronger and faster after mastering hollowfication. but still having a hard time with grimmjow. at that time aizen is faster than both. this puts aizen casually at hypersonic plus. and hes only going to get faster as the series progresses with the crysillis transformations by the end of the series putting him at high hypersonic+ just using power scale logic aizen at the end of the series is leagues faster than anyone in the naruto series.
Madara has no speed feats. you just insulting me and stating madara is faster with no real feats is not going to convince anyone.
speed advantage aizen
what actual movement feats does madara have?
You are obviously not aware of what teleportation is. First off, they do not have it in Bleach OR Naruto. The Hiraishin moves the user at the speed of light, but is more practical for battle as it can be used constantly, whereas there is a transportation jutsu in the lightning country that only the kage can use that also sends you somewhere at the speed of light, albeit much more dangerous and less practical for battle.
If what you're saying is that Ichigo is able to react to something that bypasses time, then you're mentally retarded. Teleportation is instant. No time passes from when you teleport to when you reappear. Something like Instant transmission, or Guldo's time stop. Aizen does NOT teleport, and as I've just proven, simply has a refined version of shunpo. 👆
The argument "Its been calculated that KCM Naruto is hypersonic you should agree with that because thats what your alluding to earlier.", holds no ground in an actual debate. If you're going to post calcs, then post calcs, not assumptions, half-truths, and bullshit that is simply false. I already calced their speeds. If that's wrong, then show me why. Give more accurate calcs. You can't though, because I used accurate feats to gauge their speeds.
"Shunpo isn't the same speed for all shinigami. Aizen's shunpo is still not anywhere near as fast as Gin's bankai, which was calced to be less than mach 50. Aizen wasn't even able to outrun the explosion of Yamamoto's shikai, which explodes at roughly mach 24. Going from the maps in Naruto, the ocean Madara's blast covered was about the size of the pacific ocean. Since the blast traveled through the bulk of it's distance, we can infer from scaling that it was around 12,300 miles long. Calcing that it traveled that in five seconds, the blast was going around 8,856,000 mph, or mach 11,531. Hashirama dodged this easily, meaning his reaction speed is above that. Madara with Rinnegan was even stronger and faster, meaning he is well above mach 11,531, at least with reaction speed. "
👆
Yoroichi even stated her shunpo was faster than Byakuya's, meaning it's not instant.
That bullshit powerscaling you just did based off of assumptions is useless. Powerscaling is sometimes the most reliable means of gauging someones abilities, but don't just say, "He's been calced to be hypersonic", and then powerscale it to be high hypersonic later on. Show me PROOF that he's hypersonic, like I did. You can't though, because it's not true. Aizen is at most mach 24. He was damaged by Yamamoto's kido, so he would have dodged it if he could have. Yamamoto was still holding him when the kido went off, yet Aizen came out in just seconds. This means Yamamoto either let go of Aizen just before the kido exploded, or Aizen escaped his grip beforehand. Either way, the explosion outran Aizen, and explosions of that caliber have velocities of mach 24, meaning Aizen is a bit slower than mach 24. It's that simple. 👆
It's not a matter of convincing anyone. This is fact. You cannot disprove it, or disregard it, so it is the most indisputable fact that has been given in this speed debate.
Speed advantage Madara.
What actual feats does Aizen have that pit him above mach 25? None, so don't even bother with the uneducated reply you're about to post. 👆
i would give madara the edge in destructive ability but aizen is going to lose because of these factors
1. Aizen is simply faster that cant be argued Madara has no feats
2. spiritual pressure could crush madara because he is a regular human and isnt trained in the arts of reatsu. Even those trained in reatsu have been defeated by spiritual pressure alone.
3. battle experience. aizen has been in soul society for hundreds hes been through countless battles
4. Kyoka suigetsu madara has no answer for it. Kyoka suigetsu is complete sensory manipulation through hypnosis that means all senses including any perception of 6th senses like chakra or reatsu. its too hax
5. kido and bakudo. Madara has no defense over the level 90 gravity time/space kido like kurohitsugi. He aldo has an immense knowledge of the different bakudo that could bind madara and stop his movement. plus there are offensive and defensive kido spells
6. adaptive evolution- hogyoku we know what it does
7. immortatality and superb regen
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I'm not making shit up "dude". You're even dumber than I originally assumed if you think that the ninja world is one continent. They wouldn't call it a world if it wasn't a planet, retard. Kakashi showed a diagram of the world, and it showed exactly what I posted, but with less detail. 👆
The Naruto world has never been referred to has a planet. I'm pretty sure your referring to this and that was exclusive to the anime. This is the actual explanation Kakashi gives. http://www.mangapanda.com/93-14-16/naruto/chapter-9.html
Yeah those are countries bud...all on the same continent to boot.
Originally posted by yungz22
Ok what do you have to say about kenpachi not being cut by ichigo's sword ok and how is hiero pierced? why it can only be pierced if someone high enough spiritual pressure can cut it. Madara isnt immune to swords or knifes he has to useWe both know that aizen didnt dodge yama's attack because yama grabbed his foot while his back was turned
im not gonna argue with you about the whole juubi thing even though i dont think the whole lighting country was destroyed but rather just the cloud village or where ever the head quarters is. because that stuff doesnt matter. Azien isnt fighting the juubi hes fighting madara.
If we go by the rules of naruto if someone injects energy into you while under genjutsu. That genjutsu will be broken. well as a metter of fact aizen hs the hogyoku which has a mind of its own as well as constantly pumps energy into its host. as a result genjutsu wont be of much help against aizen. Also aizen doesnt even have a chakra network. hes not a human hes a spirit so one could argue that genjutsu might not even affect aizen.
that regen feat you put up is edo madara... Aizen isnt fighting edo madara hes fighting regular human madara so if he was to use the meteor hed be killing himself. Hell the meteor didnt even kill oonoki. he got up moments later and was giving speeches about the will of stone. and yes he may have made one meteor lighter he didnt make the second one lighter so in fact he did take the force of two meteors.
Also madara is not trained in reatsu he is just a human so it is true that infact that aizen could crush madara with his spiritual pressure. even those who are trained in the art of reatsu (grimmjow) are brought down to their knee. by the pressure it causes
it doesnt work like chakra. reatsu and chakra are two totally things i keep trying to explan it to you but your totally disregarding the facts.
and im not done
What are you even saying? Kenpachi raised his spiritual pressure dramatically to push Ichigo to his knees and make his sword attacks useless. If he was just using his normal spiritual pressure that he does when walking around, Ichigo would have been able to cut him. He used energy to do it. 👆
I already replied to this shitty excuse for someone being slower than mach 24. Aizen was much stronger than Yamamoto, and could have easily broken his grip, which he did since he came out seconds later. Either that or Yamamoto released his grip just before or during the explosion. Otherwise Aizen wouldn't have gotten out.
"The fight takes place at the Valley of the End.
Current incarnation of Madara.
Round 1: Madara has his Edo Tensei Body and Aizen has all his powers.
Round 2: No regeneration for either of them.", OP states this.
So neither have regeneration. I was just giving feats from both of them. However, Madara still has his meteor feat which he has shown to be easily capable of breaking through with Susano'o. Kabuto didn't even know the extent of his powers at that point, so his statements are void, as stated and proven by Madara.
Onoki didn't die because Gaara and the Rubber guy stopped the meteor as much as they could. Onoki had still stopped the first one, meaning they actually had a sort of shield to block the first one's force with.
The Jyuubi isn't as strong as Madara. That's why he could control it with just his physical contact. Plus, Madara threw dozens of Yasaka magatama at the kage, which did as much damage as the meteor. Not to mention he still has the Perfect Susano'o, which could easily block anything Aizen threw at him, as well as kill him with a single slash. Him drawing his sword cut two mountains in half, more than Aizen swinging at full force did, literally two times more. Not to mention that with the same full force swing Aizen did from Madara, he was able to cut five mountains in half. Madara would godstomp Aizen.
Tsunade was able to interact with Dan's ghost just with her using chakra. This proves that Naruto characters can fight and touch ghosts.
Reiatsu and Chakra ARE different, but Reiatsu and ki are pretty much the same thing. Again, it's just a difference within the series. However, Chakra can be used to touch ghosts, i.e. fight them, and can be used to do MANY more attacks or jutsu. Since these jutsu are made from chakra, they can ALSO hit ghosts. Mountain sized fireballs, Giant air streams with the fore of tornadoes, Gaint water bullets, Huge mountains created to drop on people as well as meteors, Lightning bolts and entire dragons made from them, as well as entire forests to constrict or hit someone, can ALL affect soul reapers. Madara can use all of these since he has the rinnegan, as well as the other rinnegan abilities like hax summons, energy leeching, almighty push, universal pull, planetary devastation, soul splitting and control of the devil. Madara can use all these abilities to easily counter anything Aizen has.
I'm just about done, actually. This is becoming sadder and sadder by the minute.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You are obviously not aware of what teleportation is. First off, they do not have it in Bleach OR Naruto. The Hiraishin moves the user at the speed of light, but is more practical for battle as it can be used constantly, whereas there is a transportation jutsu in the lightning country that only the kage can use that also sends you somewhere at the speed of light, albeit much more dangerous and less practical for battle.If what you're saying is that Ichigo is able to react to something that bypasses time, then you're mentally retarded. Teleportation is instant. No time passes from when you teleport to when you reappear. Something like Instant transmission, or Guldo's time stop. Aizen does NOT teleport, and as I've just proven, simply has a refined version of shunpo. 👆
The argument "Its been calculated that KCM Naruto is hypersonic you should agree with that because thats what your alluding to earlier.", holds no ground in an actual debate. If you're going to post calcs, then post calcs, not assumptions, half-truths, and bullshit that is simply false. I already calced their speeds. If that's wrong, then show me why. Give more accurate calcs. You can't though, because I used accurate feats to gauge their speeds.
"Shunpo isn't the same speed for all shinigami. Aizen's shunpo is still not anywhere near as fast as Gin's bankai, which was calced to be less than mach 50. Aizen wasn't even able to outrun the explosion of Yamamoto's shikai, which explodes at roughly mach 24. Going from the maps in Naruto, the ocean Madara's blast covered was about the size of the pacific ocean. Since the blast traveled through the bulk of it's distance, we can infer from scaling that it was around 12,300 miles long. Calcing that it traveled that in five seconds, the blast was going around 8,856,000 mph, or mach 11,531. Hashirama dodged this easily, meaning his reaction speed is above that. Madara with Rinnegan was even stronger and faster, meaning he is well above mach 11,531, at least with reaction speed. "
👆
Yoroichi even stated her shunpo was faster than Byakuya's, meaning it's not instant.
That bullshit powerscaling you just did based off of assumptions is useless. Powerscaling is sometimes the most reliable means of gauging someones abilities, but don't just say, "He's been calced to be hypersonic", and then powerscale it to be high hypersonic later on. Show me PROOF that he's hypersonic, like I did. You can't though, because it's not true. Aizen is at most mach 24. He was damaged by Yamamoto's kido, so he would have dodged it if he could have. Yamamoto was still holding him when the kido went off, yet Aizen came out in just seconds. This means Yamamoto either let go of Aizen just before the kido exploded, or Aizen escaped his grip beforehand. Either way, the explosion outran Aizen, and explosions of that caliber have velocities of mach 24, meaning Aizen is a bit slower than mach 24. It's that simple. 👆
It's not a matter of convincing anyone. This is fact. You cannot disprove it, or disregard it, so it is the most indisputable fact that has been given in this speed debate.
Speed advantage Madara.
What actual feats does Aizen have that pit him above mach 25? None, so don't even bother with the uneducated reply you're about to post. 👆
so naruto is only hypersoncic when you say he is.... where did you get your numbers from....its genral knowledge that ichigo versus byakuya is hypersonic you can look it up yourself i dont have to put up random number if your not showing your source either.
ichigo is faster than naruto.
but let me ask a quesiton how fast is ichimaru's shikai if you have all these "calculation"?
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
The Naruto world has never been referred to has a planet. I'm pretty sure your referring to this and that was exclusive to the anime. This is the actual explanation Kakashi gives. http://www.mangapanda.com/93-14-16/naruto/chapter-9.htmlYeah those are countries bud...all on the same continent to boot.
Kurama states that the ten tails is the progenitor of the world. He also says in a previous page that the ten tails created all the countries. This obviously refers to the Naruto world as being a planet. I also remember that they said that sage mode used the energy of the planet, iirc.
^^* You said that the five countries = a planet. I proved to you that it wasn't. And even though the Juubi is responsible for everything that exists in the ninja world it still didn't create it because how else do you explain Kagura. Speaking of which, the Juubi didn't actually become the Juubi until Kaguya stole its fruit.
Also what you showed was a mountain range at best not an actual "exterior" view of the planet. And said mountain range doesn't cover any known countries or islands. So again countries =/= planets
Originally posted by yungz22
so naruto is only hypersoncic when you say he is.... where did you get your numbers from....its genral knowledge that ichigo versus byakuya is hypersonic you can look it up yourself i dont have to put up random number if your not showing your source either.
ichigo is faster than naruto.
but let me ask a quesiton how fast is ichimaru's shikai if you have all these "calculation"?
"Aizen wasn't even able to outrun the explosion of Yamamoto's shikai, which explodes at roughly mach 24."
"Going from the maps in Naruto, the ocean Madara's blast covered was about the size of the pacific ocean. Since the blast traveled through the bulk of it's distance, we can infer from scaling that it was around 12,300 miles long. Calcing that it traveled that in five seconds, the blast was going around 8,856,000 mph, or mach 11,531. Hashirama dodged this easily, meaning his reaction speed is above that. Madara with Rinnegan was even stronger and faster, meaning he is well above mach 11,531, at least with reaction speed."
As you can see, I got my numbers from feats in the manga. You don't even have numbers, just your vague assumptions.
Look it up. Explosions typically expand at the speed of mach 24 while on Earths surface.
Again, if you're too stupid to understand basic mathematics, then it's your problem, not mine. 👆
It's not general knowledge if it's not true. If there are calcs supporting it, then show them to me. If not, then you're wrong and you hereby withdraw any accuracy in this debate. 👆
Just because you say something, doesn't mean it's true.
As I have proven however, Madara's MUCH faster than Aizen. Also, Naruto is LS, and Ichigo isn't even mach 50. 👆
It doesn't simply work like that. I would need a speed feat that ties in to science or logic produced by Gin's shikai. As far as I know though, no such feat exists. It's safe to say though that it's nowhere near as fast as Aizen, which is mach 24, so probably like mach 15 or something. I can't calc it though because there's nothing to compare it to and it hasn't been stated. If it had, anyone could find it out other than you, as it's simple mathematics and reasoning. 👆
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
^^* You said that the five countries = a planet. I proved to you that it wasn't. And even though the Juubi is responsible for everything that exists in the ninja world it still didn't create it because how else do you explain Kagura. Speaking of which, the Juubi didn't actually become the Juubi until Kaguya stole its fruit.Also what you showed was a mountain range at best not an actual "exterior" view of the planet. And said mountain range doesn't cover any known countries or islands. So again countries =/= planets
You proved that the countries were on a continent. This does not mean it isn't a supercontinent, as there are no known countries or settlements outside of the countries, making it safe to assume that they are the collection of the planets land mass. The Jyuubi DID create the planet because it was originally a giant tree. The Jyuubi was the form it took on to take it's chakra back, but it was still originally the gods tree, that created the planet. Still a reference to Naruto's world being a planet. 👆
The Naruto wiki also says that the Naruto countries make up the planet.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Geography
Are you talking about the Jyuubi bomb? No, it was a country/continent buster, as it destroyed the entire cloud village/lightning country.
I posted the link. Either way, the only think we can assume with what we're given is that there are no countries or lands outside of the ones we've seen, making the countries as a whole, the collection of land mass on the Naruto world, or in other words, a supercontinent, making all the countries continent sized.
you still havent shown were these calcs are coming from your only throwing numbers at me and wherever your getting them from if whoevers came up with the formulas there using to get these nu,ber if they dont have a degree they arent credible.
...also you cant use the yama explosion because Aizen yama grabbed aizen while his back was turned... Yama is one of the strongest characters to ever live in soul society. hell even by that point in the series Aizen even admitted that yama jii was stronger than him so he of all people would be able to hold him and stop him from avoiding the attack...
naruto light speed? oh now youve gone too far thats dbz status