I agree flashy moves isn't always the best indicator of skill level but I think efficiency is.
She beat three guys, all of whom I'm assuming had Military experience, while tied down to a freaking chair and they had weapons.
She did it without trying at all. I have not seen anything Bale has done suggesting he could pull off a similar feat.
She also took down Hawkeye in H2H which I'll admit Clint didn't have many close combat feats. She was still highly efficient though.
Also Baleman's arm curl wasn't exactly one armed. If you look closely you will see that Bale was using his other arm to help pull while it was dug into the ground. Hell of impressive but not exactly one arm curling a human being.
Originally posted by ares834
Strength wins fights all the time. Regardless, Batman defeats competent combatants, Widow fights security guards. Yes, her fighting looks cooler but that really means nothing.It's H2H. If they have gear Widow probably takes. But I'm fairly certain the OP meant it just to be a fist fight, in which case I gotta give it to Bats.
Nice argument... (sarcasm)
The Strength argument is another fight entirely so I will agree to disagree for now.
the point Im trying to make is her fighting doesn't just "look cooler" shes clearly showing better speed and agility. It shows stuff that batman has never (in the nolan verse) done...reacted with those kind of movements ect...Go back and look at the part where she jumps over a the table, flips in the air, and as she comes down she uses her leg to take that guy out. Batman has not fought anyone that has shown that kind of fighting ability. Just because they are "ninja" doesn't automatically mean they are bad ass fighters and they certainly haven't shown the skill to back up any claims that they are superior to her.
Originally posted by ares834Batman only beat Bane through a plot device.
Agility perhaps, but speed? Not sure that I see that.As for his opponents, Bane has sufficient speed, strength, and reaction time to catch a punch from Batman. And yet, in the end, Batman is able to defeat this guy. Also, I am not saying that the ninjas are more skilled than her.
Originally posted by ares834Agreed but had that weakness not existed and had Baleman not known about it it was looking like the fight was going to end the sameway it did the first time around.
Perhaps. But Batman was still required to get past Bane's defenses and damage the mask.
And I think Natahsa would beat Bane as well.
My main reason is that at the end of the day. She just faced way more stiff competition in the form the Chitauri.
I remember when they jumped down from the Leviathon's it looks like they were digging their hands into the sides of buildings.
They had weapons far more advanced than anything in the Nolanverse. They were armored and there were a lot lot lot more of them surrounding Natasha than any number of thugs Batman had to take on at the same time.
So the upper limits of everything she faced greater than the upper limits of anything Baleman had to face in terms of size and quality of foe.
Ninjas are not greater than the Aliens in Avengers sorry.
Originally posted by ares834she was able to disarm a couple and use their own weapons against them. She had considerable H2H skill just lasting in close quarters with them.
But I don't recall her beating them in H2H. She always relies on her blades and guns. Once again if she has those here she likely wins.
Also I point out again the fight where she is tied to a chair and beat 3 full grown males you all look like former military and does it easily.
This is getting stupid.
1. The Chitauri suck. Big time. They were getting taken out by arrows and Black Widow's 9mm. They were too stupid to wear armor. Their weapons couldn't put down Captain America, they couldn't even burn his uniform. Their advanced war ships were taken out by a nuke. In short, they're weak.
2. Black Widow can't fight for crap. Period. Those cartwheels she was taking out the guards with wouldn't put down a three year old in real life. Certainly not Batman. Her only other H2H feat was taking out Hawkeye and he's got no H2H feats either. Oh, and there was that fight with the Russians, but those guy were even worse. One of them got hurt when she whipped her hair at him ffs. So, she sucks too.
Baleman slaughters her while listening to Hip to be Square.
Originally posted by PsychotronNo that stance is getting stupid.
This is getting stupid.1. The Chitauri suck. Big time. They were getting taken out by arrows and Black Widow's 9mm. They were too stupid to wear armor. Their weapons couldn't put down Captain America, they couldn't even burn his uniform. Their advanced war ships were taken out by a nuke. In short, they're weak.
2. Black Widow can't fight for crap. Period. Those cartwheels she was taking out the guards with wouldn't put down a three year old in real life. Certainly not Batman. Her only other H2H feat was taking out Hawkeye and he's got no H2H feats either. Oh, and there was that fight with the Russians, but those guy were even worse. One of them got hurt when she whipped her hair at him ffs. So, she sucks too.
Baleman slaughters her while listening to Hip to be Square.
1) Say what you will about them the Chitauri's weapons were able to injure Hulk and knock Ironman down. Considering what those two were taking before hand that is a huge feat on the part of Chitauri. And I'm sorry but if we have to use a Nuclear device to take down just ONE of their ships then that's not weak on their part. Just means humans weren't the pushovers they were told about. Also they were wearing armor and had above human stats evidenced by their ability to cling to the side of buildings.
They were also only getting taken down by the arrows and bullets with very precise shots that were cartoonish in nature with their accuracy.
2) And in real life you may have a point, but regardless of how you feel someone should be or how ineffective they should be in real life the truth is her moves in the film were highly effective which in turn makes her highly effective. She did them, she did them effectively. They took down trained people, big guys easily. Complain all you want but they happened deal with it.
Baleman loses and loses hard.
Originally posted by Zack FairI'm sure he has something hard covering his knuckles, only makes sense. Although I don't think they explicitly say so.
I think Natasha wins.Say does Bats have iron knuckles in the gloves?
Also as for cartwheel kicks being ineffective 😛
Originally posted by Newjak
Fair enough 😛But I still feel their is a difference between the two plot devices 😛
i just don't worry about plot devices
also when you get down do it.. Bane has been the only person in Nolanverse to hit Batman hard and he went down..
Natasha although skilled really isn't skilled enough to hit Baleman hard enough to keep him down..
BaleBats takes this, Natasha's h2h skills she has showed are nothing compared to what BaleBats has showed