Originally posted by BruceSkywalkerThat's pretty round about logic.
i just don't worry about plot devicesalso when you get down do it.. Bane has been the only person in Nolanverse to hit Batman hard and he went down..
Natasha although skilled really isn't skilled enough to hit Baleman hard enough to keep him down..
BaleBats takes this, Natasha's h2h skills she has showed are nothing compared to what BaleBats has showed
You say only Bane as knocked out Batman and that since Natasha can not hit as hard has bane therefore she can not knock out Baleman.
This actually takes a couple of different things for granted.
One is assuming you have to be as strong as Bane to knock Batman out.
Second that Natasha can not generate as much force as Bane
Thirdly you assume KO is the only way Natasha can win.
Let's kind of break these down.
First, as strong as Bane is I think each individual Chitauri warrior is stronger. They can launch out of Leviathans and cling to the sides of buildings using nothing but their hands and feet. Something I don't see Bane duplicating based on his feats.
Secondly Natasha was able to generate enough force to knock out two adult men while being tied to a chair. So I don't think generating knock out force is problem for her.
Thirdly Natasha could do a number of things to Bruce beside knock him out, namely break his neck, bust one of his joints. Beat on him so much he just collapses.
As for skill.
I know people like to trounce the Chitauri as weak in reality they are just cannon fodder soldiers just like everyone else Batman took down.
The difference if that the Chitauri have decent feats going with their stuff. Weapons capable of hurting Ironman, definitely greater than human strength.
So Natasha's best feats are taking down groups of armed above human alien soldiers, Batman's best skill feat is taking down groups of armed human level ninjas.
It just doesn't compare.
It's the difference between someone trying to make a realistic comic book superhero and someone fully embracing comic street level heroes and all their campy stuff.
Bane is by the far physically the most powerful person in the entire Nolanverse, and I honestly think he could struggle with one Chitauri warrior in stats. He maybe able to take down one on skill but I honestly think he would struggle and get overpowered by a group of them.
I'll use one measuring stick to make my point Captain America. He would wreck Bane and Batman at the same time. Why because he skilled and Bane ++++++++++++++++ in terms of stats. Cap in terms of feats would be able to overpower Bane with one arm.
He had moments where he struggled in the fight against the Aliens, yet Natasha was in the same scenario able to hold her own. She didn't have advanced super stats. She only was able to survive because of her skill level.
At the end of the day that's always gonna be the difference.
Nolanverse Batman only ever had to go up against one person with above human ability and he lost.
Natasha had to do it against groups of people with above human stats and was holding her own.
So when judging skill, you've gotta account for the fact that Baleman will never have a test of skill to match that because he was in a much more realistic setting having to deal with much more realistic foes. And he struggled at times within that realistic setting.
I think most people judge skill based solely on how they feel the characters looked and how well the choreography looked.
You can't do that, because then you're ignoring what actually happened, and Natasha pulled off the much better feat which required much more skill to pull off, and no Baleman hasn't done anything close enough to say he would fare nearly as well as she did in a situation that was taxing Cap.
Originally posted by Newjak
That's pretty round about logic.You say only Bane as knocked out Batman and that since Natasha can not hit as hard has bane therefore she can not knock out Baleman.
This actually takes a couple of different things for granted.
One is assuming you have to be as strong as Bane to knock Batman out.
Second that Natasha can not generate as much force as Bane
Thirdly you assume KO is the only way Natasha can win.
Let's kind of break these down.
First, as strong as Bane is I think each individual Chitauri warrior is stronger. They can launch out of Leviathans and cling to the sides of buildings using nothing but their hands and feet. Something I don't see Bane duplicating based on his feats.
Secondly Natasha was able to generate enough force to knock out two adult men while being tied to a chair. So I don't think generating knock out force is problem for her.
Thirdly Natasha could do a number of things to Bruce beside knock him out, namely break his neck, bust one of his joints. Beat on him so much he just collapses.
As for skill.
I know people like to trounce the Chitauri as weak in reality they are just cannon fodder soldiers just like everyone else Batman took down.
The difference if that the Chitauri have decent feats going with their stuff. Weapons capable of hurting Ironman, definitely greater than human strength.
So Natasha's best feats are taking down groups of armed above human alien soldiers, Batman's best skill feat is taking down groups of armed human level ninjas.
It just doesn't compare.
It's the difference between someone trying to make a realistic comic book superhero and someone fully embracing comic street level heroes and all their campy stuff.
Bane is by the far physically the most powerful person in the entire Nolanverse, and I honestly think he could struggle with one Chitauri warrior in stats. He maybe able to take down one on skill but I honestly think he would struggle and get overpowered by a group of them.
I'll use one measuring stick to make my point Captain America. He would wreck Bane and Batman at the same time. Why because he skilled and Bane ++++++++++++++++ in terms of stats. Cap in terms of feats would be able to overpower Bane with one arm.
He had moments where he struggled in the fight against the Aliens, yet Natasha was in the same scenario able to hold her own. She didn't have advanced super stats. She only was able to survive because of her skill level.
At the end of the day that's always gonna be the difference.
Nolanverse Batman only ever had to go up against one person with above human ability and he lost.
Natasha had to do it against groups of people with above human stats and was holding her own.
So when judging skill, you've gotta account for the fact that Baleman will never have a test of skill to match that because he was in a much more realistic setting having to deal with much more realistic foes. And he struggled at times within that realistic setting.
I think most people judge skill based solely on how they feel the characters looked and how well the choreography looked.
You can't do that, because then you're ignoring what actually happened, and Natasha pulled off the much better feat which required much more skill to pull off, and no Baleman hasn't done anything close enough to say he would fare nearly as well as she did in a situation that was taxing Cap.
well why don;t you show me some type of proof that Natasha hits like Bane... remember this thread is about martial arts/hand to hand combat..
well i don;t have to assume much since Natasha's martial arts/h2h is nothing compared to what BaleBats has shown, which is what this thread is about as per the OP
Originally posted by ares834
Until someone actually shows a clip with Widow defeating Chitauri in H2H I really don't see how it's relevant. She doesn't have her weapons here.
that is the only way Natasha wins here if she has her weapons
Originally posted by Nephthys
Someone said this would be a good fight. Lets see if they're right.Baleman at the end of TDKR. Does the incarnation of Batman matter? If so this might be subject to change.
The fight takes place in the arena in which Baleman first fights Bane. they're both on the catwalk.
H2H.
see guys the OP is clear H2H ONLY ... Don;t get me wrong I love the avngers as I saw it 6 times and am looking forward to buying it on blu ray however the H2H skills Natasha has showed will not put down BaleBats
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
The Batman fanboyism and attempts to downplay Natasha's feats at all costs is amusing.I can't wait for some butthhurt Batman fan to claim that dogs > 7 foot tall armored alien warriors. It's going to happen.
being being that dogs have no bearing here, that is a very ignorant statement on your part
Originally posted by BruceSkywalkerOnce again you assume you need to hit as hard as Bane to hurt Baleman that isn't the case.
well why don;t you show me some type of proof that Natasha hits like Bane... remember this thread is about martial arts/hand to hand combat..well i don;t have to assume much since Natasha's martial arts/h2h is nothing compared to what BaleBats has shown, which is what this thread is about as per the OP
that is the only way Natasha wins here if she has her weapons
see guys the OP is clear H2H ONLY ... Don;t get me wrong I love the avngers as I saw it 6 times and am looking forward to buying it on blu ray however the H2H skills Natasha has showed will not put down BaleBats
being being that dogs have no bearing here, that is a very ignorant statement on your part
Look @3:10
One clown thug was able to deck Batman and stun him. That a normal man managing to stun the Batman. Which means you don't have to be equal to Bane to hurt that Bat.
And I ask you what exactly are you using to base your notion that Baleman's H2H skills are better than Natahsa's?
Originally posted by the ninjakBecause he is the hero the people deserve but not the one it needs 😄
Batman brings the best out in people doesn't he.
Originally posted by Newjak
Once again you assume you need to hit as hard as Bane to hurt Baleman that isn't the case.Look @3:10
One clown thug was able to deck Batman and stun him. That a normal man managing to stun the Batman. Which means you don't have to be equal to Bane to hurt that Bat.
And I ask you what exactly are you using to base your notion that Baleman's H2H skills are better than Natahsa's?
Because he is the hero the people deserve but not the one it needs 😄
that same scene Batman gets back up and saves Rachel so yeah you have basically proved my point..
in Nolanverse Bane has been the one and only person to knock BaleBats down and he stayed down... Natasha won;t be able to knock him out, she might knock him down but he get back up and beat her.. she prolly won;t be able to see in darkness which will also be her undoing...
i am basing BaleBats off of all his h2h feats he has shown and he is superior to Natasha when it comes to h2h ... lets face it Natasha was barely shown using her h2h skills while BaleBats was shown using them way more than she was
Originally posted by BruceSkywalkerYeah, after he gets knocked to the ground and literally restrained by some random thug long enough for the Joker to shank him with a knife boot, than obviously it doesn't very much at all to knock Batman down. If a random clown thug can do that to Batman, Natasha can do far far worse.
that same scene Batman gets back up and saves Rachel
I understand that with a Batman avatar and a Batman signature and a Batman custom title you have an obligation to defend the character to the death, but trying to ignore things that happened on-screen in his own movie is poor form.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Yeah, after he gets knocked to the ground and literally restrained by some random thug long enough for the Joker to shank him with a knife boot, than obviously it doesn't very much at all to knock Batman down. If a random clown thug can do that to Batman, Natasha can do far far worse.I understand that with a Batman avatar and a Batman signature and a Batman custom title you have an obligation to defend the character to the death, but trying to ignore things that happened on-screen in his own movie is poor form.
THANKS FOR THE LAUGHS..
as stated Batman got back up and saved Rachel from certain death so I know what I am talking about .. If Natasha was all that(we all know she isn't, well at least her screen feats say so)then she would have been portrayed as some h2h powerhouse and she isn't ..
as stated certainly Natasha will hit BaleBats, knocking him down as well, however he will get back up and take care of business..
why don;t you scour through youtube(providing you know what a screen feat is) and find for me Natasha taking out the Chitauri using her h2h combat skills????
Originally posted by Psychotron
The only thing Widow can break is a nail. She's got no good H2H feats. You guys think beating up some security guards and weak aliens (using weapons) matters? The Baleman rapes and breaks her.
😆
You guys are crazy if you think this unagile slowness:
is beating this:
Batman inserts his teeth into the pavement while BW rapes and breaks him with a Bat-Dildo