^ I see what you did there. If Goku can get it to hit, ot get that much power out to begin with, then sure. The problem is I'm not seeing Goku or Raditz putting out that level of power: Goku in particular hasn't shown the ability either at BoZ or EoDB to do it casually so my doubt is still present. Furthermore he hasn't shown the durability to tank the power Sasuke can dish out.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Let me response with this. How would that translate as a win for Goku? Physically Goku isn't strong enough to breach Susanoo by this point so melee is useless. Sasuke's feat is not only better than Goku's feats on panel at the time but also more consistent. IIRC the moon busting is also more impressive than anything King Piccolo did yet no one would argue he was inferior to Roshi.Raditz nor Goku have done anything more impressive than EoS Sasuke at that point. According to that, all the Z fighters stronger than Roshi had moon busting capabilities/durability which the actual series shows otherwise at that point.
Lol...so you admit that Roshi and Piccolo at 350 can generate more power than Raditz, Nappa, and Super Saiyan 2 Goku?
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...so you admit that Roshi and Piccolo at 350 can generate more power than Raditz, Nappa, and Super Saiyan 2 Goku?
I think the point he's making is powerscaling.We KNOW that Goku is stronger than roshi and piccolo. Heck, we KNOW that krillin is stronger than roshi. So why is it hard to accept they can put out as much energy he can? Obviously you don't want to blow up the planet you're trying to defend. Even the saiyans don't want that because they sell them after their done with it.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
What the heck does SSJ2 Goku have to do with this? Nappa>>Raditz and I already stated that Goku post King Kai training would beat him so your point? Again Raditz hasn't done anything more than mountain busting and was even injured by Goku's ki attack: less you're going to argue the mountain Goku blew up was more durable than a moon.
Where does it stop though? You're basing your judgement off of destructive blasts, correct? Roshi and Piccolo at his weakest has better fts than almost every Z fighter from Yamcha all the way up to Goku. Mystic Gohan, let alone Gohan doesnt have any moon busting, mountain busting, or planetary showings so since Raditz doesn't possess these showings as well, wouldn't that apply to all the characters that doesn't have the same? Why are you singling Raditz out when 95% of the people in Z doesn't have anything close? So again i ask, does that make Roshi destructive capabilites greater than the people I've just named, including Raditz? What you are saying doesn't only apply to just Raditz my friend.
Also, Frieza at his first form destroyed planet Vegeta with his index finger without exhausting any power. Based off fts, wouldn't that make him more powerful than Cell and Kid Buu? I'm trying to gain some DBZ knowledge here. Help me out.
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
I think the point he's making is powerscaling.We KNOW that Goku is stronger than roshi and piccolo. Heck, we KNOW that krillin is stronger than roshi. So why is it hard to accept they can put out as much energy he can? Obviously you don't want to blow up the planet you're trying to defend. Even the saiyans don't want that because they sell them after their done with it.
Would like to point out that Goku(@ BoZ) doesn't have a clear answer to Amateratsu and Sasuke has his own teleporting tech to avoid big attacks. This and his more impressive demonstration of power at the end of the series are why I think Sasuke would win against this version of Goku.
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
I think the point he's making is powerscaling.We KNOW that Goku is stronger than roshi and piccolo. Heck, we KNOW that krillin is stronger than roshi. So why is it hard to accept they can put out as much energy he can? Obviously you don't want to blow up the planet you're trying to defend. Even the saiyans don't want that because they sell them after their done with it.
Exactly. He's asking why Raditz didn't blow up anything bigger. Why would he need too? The moon was gone during the time he arrived on Earth and why would he even attempt to blow up the moon if it was there? And Earth, his goal wasn't to destroy that either. So I'm trying to figure out why he is capping Raditz at mountain busting when he never attempted to destroy anything bigger. There was a reason Piccolo and Roshi destroyed the moon ya know (not directed at you). It wasn't to test how powerful they could shoot a blast either.
Originally posted by carver9
Exactly. He's asking why Raditz didn't blow up anything bigger. Why would he need too? The moon was gone during the time he arrived on Earth and why would he even attempt to blow up the moon if it was there? And Earth, his goal wasn't to destroy that either. So I'm trying to figure out why he is capping Raditz at mountain busting when he never attempted to destroy anything bigger. There was a reason Piccolo and Roshi destroyed the moon ya know (not directed at you). It wasn't to test how powerful they could shoot a blast either.
It wouldn't take moon busting level power as Goku was able to slightly injure him & Gohan's brief burst of power greatly injured him. But to answer the general question, yeah the Narutoverse does have someone on "moon busting" level...don't worry it's not Sasuke.
Originally posted by BloodRain
12 pages.. which Goku is agreed Sasuke can match?
If OBD calcs hold true then Sasuke has power above end of DB Goku and just below start of Z Goku, but with Freeza level speed.
The only way Sasuke can win is if his hax will assist in bringing down Start of Z Goku, using his speed to evade long enough to do so.
If his hax doesn't work.. he would defeat End of DB Goku.
Sasuke's non-teleportation speed is likely sub-relavistic (>10% LS), based on Guy and Madara. This is obviously ridiculously fast, but I'm not sure how it stacks with DB characters.
Also, after a few hours of study, I've found the calcs commonly used regarding size/magnitude are pretty ridiculously over exaggerated. For instance, I can say almost with certainty that the stump of the Shinju ranges anywhere between a half mile and 1.5 miles in diameter, more likely on the lower end. (Not including the roots).
That said, Naruto and Sasuke did create a fvcking moon, though I'd strongly suggest the size of said moon is highly questionable tbh based on the size of the known Shinobi world. (For instance, I calc'd the fire country to be roughly 50 miles in diameter, 150 at the absolute high end, and that makes up an enormous chunk of the known world.)
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I'm not questioning it, I just said Raditz didn't do it regardless of the reasons why/why not. Could he be a moon buster? Probably but that doesn't change the fact that he didn't even do anything on "city busting" level like Nappa: the Narutoverse collectivehas surpassed this as well. Also Raditz blasts are casual enough to warrant he could do the same to Sasuke before being attacked nor does he have the durability to tank Sasuke's best.
So you're still saying Riddick is weaker than 350 Piccolo and 135 Roshi?
Originally posted by BloodRain
If OBD calcs hold true then Sasuke has power above end of DB Goku and just below start of Z Goku, but with Freeza level speed.The only way Sasuke can win is if his hax will assist in bringing down Start of Z Goku, using his speed to evade long enough to do so.
If his hax doesn't work.. he would defeat End of DB Goku.
Yeah I was arguing in favor of Sasuke's power & hax being used.
Hmm...while I still believe that Sasuke would be start of DBZ Goku, I can compromise with him being above Goku by the end of DB.
I will say this, if one believes an attacks overall power purely by it's explosive output, then of course one would think that Raditz is weaker than Sasuke. However, they would be believing in an incomplete picture. For example, the actual technique Piccolo used to kill both Raditz & Goku simultaneously was a piercing attack, rather than an explosive one.
I however, am of the personal belief that the Naruto High enders may break the Raditz hurdle, not due to overall power, because anyone trying to physically overpower Raditz, or clash energy levels with him, would get beaten down horribly. They are not going to beat Raditz in a slugfest. His physical power, his energy manip, and his high end speed COMBINED, make him a powerhouse that is an out-of-context foe. However, they can win using their more esoteric techniques. Hax abilities that can bypass Raditz's strengths are quite common in Naruto.
The problem becomes exasperated exponentially the further one delves into DBZ/Movies/GT. Now, last time I did a thread like this, Naruto characters could not break the Nappa wall according to most people, and that was 2012. Currently, I think they may breach the Nappa wall, but they either get stopped solidly by Vegeta, or if not by that point, you then have guys like Qui, Dodorian, Zarbon, and the Ginyus...
If I am going to be extremely lenient, I would give Naruto characters, at most up to Recoome, who demolishes any Naruto character 1-on-1 despite being dumb as a bag of hammers. There is only so far hax abilities would work before they can get overpowered by sheer speed, power and fighting talent, and Recoome was single handedly pushing in Vegeta's and Krillin's shit, before breaking Gohan's neck with an ankle kick.