Ozymandias vs Captain America

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Cap soloed a bunch of armed Hydra thugs, aliens, and even managed to fight Loki weaponless and hold his own. Cap was able to stagger a guy who's bulletproof and takes Mjolnir strikes and lives after. Those displays of skill are better than anything Niteowl and Rorschach showed who basically beat up thugs and cops. 😐

Statwise, he's far above the likes of Niteowl and Rorschach. Cap would have one shot either of them and would have easily decimated Comedian in faster time than Ozy did.

Hydra thugs and Chitauri were fodder. Hawkeye KO'd one and Black Widow and jumped on some of them and killed them.
Loki on the other hand was his best feat. And he failed miserably. BW said "He's all over the place" indicating Caps old fashioned fighting methods are dated in her eyes.
Cap's strength was able to stagger Loki momentarily via jump kick. But all Loki had to do was pull the trigger.

Ozy has the strength to kick full grown men into the air. Jump 15 ft into the sky and crush Niteowl's laser. And crush Niteowl into a stone stair railing shattering the stone underneath.

He has the strength to kick Cap in the throat. And the skill to do it with ease.
He toyed with combatants more skilled than Cap as well.

Ozy takes Round 1 easily.
Round 2. I see Cap throwing the shield and Ozy kicking it aside mid jump. Then repeating Round 1.

Cap won't get a good hit on Ozy, whereas Ozy will make his hits count.

If Cap holds onto the shield Ozy will jump around taunting Cap. Waiting for Cap to throw the shield then kick it aside as easily as Loki did with his scepter.

What feats did these "more skilled than Cap" combatants have?

Oh not this crap again! Already went through this in the movie versus forum.

The Ozy camp is going to try and convince you that not only is Ozy stronger than Cap, but Cap couldn't possibly even touch him because of how fast he is.

Then they will take the argument to a new level of stupidity in claiming Rorschach and NiteOwl are both in the same strength league as Cap, but far superior fighters, hence even either of them would take out Cap.

Originally posted by Silent Master
What feats did these "more skilled than Cap" combatants have?

Getting taken down by a bunch of cops.

Hey I never said in the MVF that Niteowl or Rorschach had what it took to take down Cap.

Don't boil down my views on what the others say.

Ozy is on another level to those guys. Obviously.

Originally posted by Silent Master
What feats did these "more skilled than Cap" combatants have?

What skills did Cap show? Besides brute force with the shield and agility?

Again, what feats do they have that place them above movie Cap?

Originally posted by the ninjak

General skills in MA.

Am I wrong?

Ok for 1 i do not think Nite Owl II and Rorschach are as strong as Captain America. I don't even think Ozy is.

As far as fighting skill goes Cap basically just bullied people due to his superior stats. He would run up and bull rush guys and send them flying never to be seen again. That's basically like Brock Lesnar taking on a bunch of 5th graders. He wouldn't need much skill because he would just manhandle them. But once Cap fought someone on his level (Red Skull) or above (Loki) he got beat down and relied mostly on luck to survive.

Now the Watchmen on the other hand faced people about their level in the alley and with their skill completely destroyed them. Ozy faced Comedian who was above his strength level and still completely dominated him due to his skill. Ozy faced two Watchmen about his level and completely dominated them while not using much effort due to his skill. Then he caught a bullet a point blank range which would put his combat speed and reflexes above Cap's and his durability and strength well within Cap range

Originally posted by Newjak
What I take from that statement is that you thought they looked better therefore they are better.

Am I wrong?

No you're not wrong. They looked better because they were better skilled fighters. But not stronger.
Cap would overwhelm them with the shield and enhanced strength.
But Niteowl's feats of skill are far above anything we saw Cap do.

Cap's slow reverse jump kick on Loki was amateurish compared to Niteowl's sidekick, jumpkick then leg sweep maneuver. And Ozy watched the whole attempt and kicked him away.

Which puts Cap above Nite Owl and Rorschach. But not Ozy. Ozy has the strength to dent Cap....yet Cap hasn't shown feats to get a shot in H2H.

Cap is stronger than any Watchmen but skillwise? He is lacking.

Ozy caught a bullet!

So, Nite Owl II and Rorschach are more skilled because they beat up common thugs?

So, Nite Owl II and Rorschach are more skilled because they beat up common thugs?

The way they beat them yes. Also i might add that those "common thugs" were much closer to their level than the Hydra guys were to Cap's level.

It's much more impressive for a 15 year old to beat up six other 15 year olds at the same time than it is for a 15 year old to beat up six 9 year olds.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So, Nite Owl II and Rorschach are more skilled because they beat up common thugs?

No, they are more skilled because they showed more skill.

Ozymandias wins.

Originally posted by juggerman
The way they beat them yes. Also i might add that those "common thugs" were much closer to their level than the Hydra guys were to Cap's level.

It's much more impressive for a 15 year old to beat up six other 15 year olds at the same time than it is for a 15 year old to beat up six 9 year olds.

They were still common thugs. the people that Cap beat were trained soldiers.

Still doesn't carry much weight. Cap was so far above them that they don't help the skill argument. Is it impressive if a grown man easily beat up trained kittens?

Originally posted by Silent Master
They were still common thugs. the people that Cap beat were trained soldiers.

How would an unarmed Cap have faired against the thugs in the alley scene with Nite Owl and Silk Spectre II in Watchmen?

He would've gotten shot.

Originally posted by juggerman
Still doesn't carry much weight. Cap was so far above them that they don't help the skill argument. Is it impressive if a grown man easily beat up trained kittens?

In order for Cap's strength to play a role, he has to have the skill to hit the people he's fighting and his skill allowed to tag multiple trained soldiers, that puts him far above tagging common thugs.

No it just makes all the Hydra agents thugs/fodder as well.

In order for Cap's strength to play a role, he has to have the skill to hit the people he's fighting and his skill allowed to tag multiple trained soldiers, that puts him far above tagging common thugs.

You mean the trained soldiers that engaged Cap physically even tho they had guns?

And again when Cap fought against people on his level he didn't fair so well. The Watchmen on the other hand faired extremely well when faceing people on the same level. Just because Cap would have handled the thugs as well does not mean he was as skilled.

Hulk is not as skilled as Blade yet he could have beaten Nomak down with very little effort. Your point is not valid

Originally posted by juggerman
You mean the trained soldiers that engaged Cap physically even tho they had guns?

And again when Cap fought against people on his level he didn't fair so well. The Watchmen on the other hand faired extremely well when faces people on the same level. Just because Cap would have handled the thugs as well does not mean he was as skilled.

Hulk is not as skilled as Blade yet he could have beaten Nomak down with very little effort. Your point is not valid

I'm glad you admit that the Watchmen's level is that of common thugs.

I'm glad you admit that the Watchmen's level is that of common thugs.

Nice try.