Ozymandias vs Captain America

Started by the ninjak5 pages
Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm glad you admit that the Watchmen's level is that of common thugs.

Damn..........No.

Someones scraping the barrel.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Loki on the other hand was his best feat. And he failed miserably.

So its a low feat to be beaten by a God?

BW said "He's all over the place" indicating Caps old fashioned fighting methods are dated in her eyes.

I took that as a compliment to Cap knowing she couldnt get a clean shot since he was moving so fast.

Cap in both easily.

Originally posted by the ninjak
They were fodder like any other fodder in any other movie.

How would an unarmed Cap have faired against the thugs in the alley scene with Nite Owl and Silk Spectre II in Watchmen?

He would've gotten shot.

You're on crack if you actually believe that.

You need to gtfo if you think Cap would have been killed by those thugs.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You're on crack if you actually believe that.

You need to gtfo if you think Cap would have been killed by those thugs.

Hey he took a blast to the chest and started to heal it. I'll like to see how he handles a bullet in the chest.
There is a reason why all Cap related movies had him fighting laser based opponents.

Originally posted by tkitna
So its a low feat to be beaten by a God?

I took that as a compliment to Cap knowing she couldnt get a clean shot since he was moving so fast.

Cap in both easily.

Oh Cmon it wasn't a compliment. She meant he was fighting like crap. She could've made the shot once he made the kick.
Lucky Ironman was there to save the day.

Originally posted by the ninjak
No you're not wrong. They looked better because they were better skilled fighters. But not stronger.
Cap would overwhelm them with the shield and enhanced strength.
But Niteowl's feats of skill are far above anything we saw Cap do.

Cap's slow reverse jump kick on Loki was amateurish compared to Niteowl's sidekick, jumpkick then leg sweep maneuver. And Ozy watched the whole attempt and kicked him away.

Which puts Cap above Nite Owl and Rorschach. But not Ozy. Ozy has the strength to dent Cap....yet Cap hasn't shown feats to get a shot in H2H.

Cap is stronger than any Watchmen but skillwise? He is lacking.

Ozy caught a bullet!

That's a very subjective statement to make.

It's basically a personal opinion because you're not basing it off of feats but rather what you felt it looked like. So cause you thought Cap looked slow and sluggish therefore he was a terrible fighter... even though he was shown with Super human speed and reaction time and senses, he is a slow fighter because the choreography didn't make him look fast enough to you? That's not right cause it ignores everything the story built him up to be.

And as for the strength gap argument. I can agree with it but Cap has also taken on groups of the Chitauri and they very clearly showed above human stats like when they used their hands and feat to cling to the sides of buildings.

It's obvious he was meant to be a very skilled human being. Just because you think it looked bad doesn't make it so.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Hey he took a blast to the chest and started to heal it. I'll like to see how he handles a bullet in the chest.
There is a reason why all Cap related movies had him fighting laser based opponents.

Oh Cmon it wasn't a compliment. She meant he was fighting like crap. She could've made the shot once he made the kick.
Lucky Ironman was there to save the day.

The same lasers that were vaporizing entire human beings just by touching them?

Yeah those things are so obviously weaker than guns with bullets 😛

Originally posted by Newjak
That's a very subjective statement to make.

It's basically a personal opinion because you're not basing it off of feats but rather what you felt it looked like. So cause you thought Cap looked slow and sluggish therefore he was a terrible fighter... even though he was shown with Super human speed and reaction time and senses, he is a slow fighter because the choreography didn't make him look fast enough to you? That's not right cause it ignores everything the story built him up to be.

And as for the strength gap argument. I can agree with it but Cap has also taken on groups of the Chitauri and they very clearly showed above human stats like when they used their hands and feat to cling to the sides of buildings.

It's obvious he was meant to be a very skilled human being. Just because you think it looked bad doesn't make it so.

The same lasers that were vaporizing entire human beings just by touching them?

Yeah those things are so obviously weaker than guns with bullets 😛

Hawkeye struck one off a building. He's human. Chitauri were fodder with arguably amazing tech armor.

Originally posted by Newjak
The same lasers that were vaporizing entire human beings just by touching them?

Yeah those things are so obviously weaker than guns with bullets 😛

Touche. Shame they didn't shoot Cap with it. Nor the Chitauri having the same level of tech.

A bullet in the gut will put movie Cap down in pain HF has no factor. And there are 5 more bullets.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Hawkeye struck one off a building. He's human. Chitauri were fodder with arguably amazing tech armor.

Yes they were fodder but you are still ignoring their feats. They were clearly stronger than human beings based off of their on screen feats.

Of course that just goes back to the point of ignoring the feats.

You keep looking at it from the point of view of if Hawkeye can beat one than that somehow lessens their abilities despite what is clearly shown and stated. You never stop to look at the fact that Hawkeye could just be that skilled as he is intended to be.

You just keep thinking they didn't look good enough or skilled enough to you so that means they can't be. You ignore what feats they pulled off, what the story has said about them and what their enemies did.

Also Hawkeye never engaged any of them without a weapon nor did he engage them in the same numbers Cap did.

Touche. Shame they didn't shoot Cap with it. Nor the Chitauri having the same level of tech.

A bullet in the gut will put movie Cap down in pain HF has no factor. And there are 5 more bullets.

This is another example here.

Your reasoning goes like this. The alien weapons obviously can't be as good as a gun with bullets because Cap was able to get shot in the stomach and be ok. He could never do that if he were shot by a gun.

But that ignores the fact that we already clearly see that these Alien weapons are likened to Hydra weapons before by Cap. It also ignores the fact that those weapons were able to hurt and knock down Ironman something no bullet from a gun has been able to to do in 3 movies.

Originally posted by Newjak
Yes they were fodder but you are still ignoring their feats. They were clearly stronger than human beings based off of their on screen feats.

Of course that just goes back to the point of ignoring the feats.

You keep looking at it from the point of view of if Hawkeye can beat one than that somehow lessens their abilities despite what is clearly shown and stated. You never stop to look at the fact that Hawkeye could just be that skilled as he is intended to be.

You just keep thinking they didn't look good enough or skilled enough to you so that means they can't be. You ignore what feats they pulled off, what the story has said about them and what their enemies did.

Also Hawkeye never engaged any of them without a weapon nor did he engage them in the same numbers Cap did.

HawkEye stonecold KO'd one with a flick of his bow! Which shows that the Chitauri's gloves and boots are designed to take insane pressure.
-Chitauri's grabbing buildings after being launched.
-Chitauri's smashing cars beneath their feet.

Cap struggled with a Chitauri before elbowing it in the throat. And struggled with another whilst trying to protect the civilians form being exploded. What does that say about Cap's incredible skill?
Movie Cap isn't Comic Cap. By a long shot.

Originally posted by Newjak
This is another example here.

Your reasoning goes like this. The alien weapons obviously can't be as good as a gun with bullets because Cap was able to get shot in the stomach and be ok. He could never do that if he were shot by a gun.

But that ignores the fact that we already clearly see that these Alien weapons are likened to Hydra weapons before by Cap. It also ignores the fact that those weapons were able to hurt and knock down Ironman something no bullet from a gun has been able to to do in 3 movies.

The Chitauri weapons were concussive in nature. They hit hard. They didn't disintegrate their enemies upon touch like the HYDRA weapons did.
Hence Cap grasping his chest and being lifted by Thor. Both agreeing to fight some more.
Arguing such ammunition is like arguing Star Wars lasers against the projectile ammunition in our world.
You could burn Cap with a laser. But shoot a bullet in him.......and he can't get that bullet out can he?
Bullets are also invisible to the human eye. Not like laser bursts.

Well.... not if you're Ozymandias 😄

Cap got shot in the gut in The First Avenger when the assassin tried to get away in the beginning...we he was still able to run and swim him down....

I don't remember Cap getting shot in that chase?

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't remember Cap getting shot in that chase?

after using the door as a partial shield he leaned against a wall and held his side, he was bleeding from a GSW. Take a look again

Originally posted by ctsketch
after using the door as a partial shield he leaned against a wall and held his side, he was bleeding from a GSW. Take a look again
I'll have to check that out but I don't remember him bleeding or having any blood stains after that on his shirt

it was like on his oblique area, he held it with his hand, then looked at the blood for a second then continued the chase...didn't seem to slow him down.

Originally posted by Silent Master
What feats did those two fighters have that place them above movie Cap?

Every fight they had showed greater skill. Cap never learned how to fight. He relied on his enhanced physicality. Give them the super soldier serum and they would stomp Cap with ease.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Ozy doesn't have what it takes to beat movie Cap.

Let's see, Ozy is more skilled, just as strong (catching a bullet is a multi ton feat), and much faster (he can catch a bullet).

Originally posted by Silent Master
So, Nite Owl II and Rorschach are more skilled because they beat up common thugs?

It's how you beat someone up that determines skill and not who you beat up. Otherwise no one could ever make it to A level fighting ability.

You know, if Cap's stats prevent his fights from being proof of his skill level, then the same holds true for Ozy, since you're claiming his stats are just as good, if not better.

Cap should beat the snot out him, imo.

Originally posted by h1a8
Every fight they had showed greater skill.

Good lord. Rorschach was brought in by the police department. Thats just sad.

Originally posted by tkitna
Good lord. Rorschach was brought in by the police department. Thats just sad.

It's fun watching him dismiss Cap's wins because of his stats, then turn around and claim that Ozy is faster and just as strong as Cap.

Using his logic, shouldn't we dismiss Ozy wins?

Originally posted by tkitna
Good lord. Rorschach was brought in by the police department. Thats just sad.

Superman was koed by a gas station. That has nothing to do with the skill he has shown. Also Police has guns. Guns =/= fighting ability right Silent Master?

Originally posted by Silent Master
It's fun watching him dismiss Cap's wins because of his stats, then turn around and claim that Ozy is faster and just as strong as Cap.

Using his logic, shouldn't we dismiss Ozy wins?

I dismiss Cap because he hasn't shown awesome MA skill. He received NO training in the fighting arts in the movie. He will be outclassed by Ozy skill wise. It's only his physicality that will keep him in the fight.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You know, if Cap's stats prevent his fights from being proof of his skill level, then the same holds true for Ozy, since you're claiming his stats are just as good, if not better.
It's how you beat someone that shows skill and not who you beat. Thor can beat the shit out of CA in h2h and it's not because he is more skilled.