You don't think his power aura (portrayed with a golden hue in the show) and the sporadic surges of lightning around his body after he resurrected, are indicative of SSJ transformations? Not only did Cell have more Saiyan genes than anything else(by a LOT), but I also can't think of a reason why traits exclusive to Saiyans would be illustrated so identically if Cell wasn't meant to be tapping his 'Saiyan side'..?
That's the thing though-- I think it's fairly evident that Cell was a first level SSJ.
Take the power up phase of his and Goku's battle(this was before Cell's Jesus resurrection)...
Goku powers up:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14158396/db34pg017.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14158397/db34pg018.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14158398/db34pg019.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14158399/db34pg020.gif.html
Cell powers up:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14158400/db34pg022.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14158401/db34pg023.gif.html
After they are done powering up, their power auras are identical:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14158402/db34pg024.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14158403/db34pg025.gif.html
In the show, not only are the power auras identically portrayed, but the sound effect they make is identical as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuwhx28Vm00
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Umm, the fact that his Zenkai boosted him to the point where he could use a death beam to render Gohan down an arm?
An unprepared Gohan using his body as a shield for Vegeta. Goku managed to harm Cell and drop his ki as well but that didn't mean he was on Cell's level. If Cell couldn't regen he woulda been down much more than an arm fighting even Vegeta
Originally posted by BloodRainWell, it's not like Cell is going to sprout spikey golden hair, but based on what we saw(and heard), Cell definitely appeared to be accessing the powers of a SSJ1 in his pre-resurrection form, and the powers of a SSJ2 in his post-resurrection form.
Difference is that Goku was powering up the SS state he was already in, while Cell was just powering up his normal form.I guess its possible that his normal form is in something like a permanent SS mode, but nothing will really confirm or deny what states he's in.
*His pre-resurrection power aura was illustrated exactly like Goku's in the manga. In the show, his aura also had the exact same golden color, and made the exact same sound effect.
*His post-resurrection power aura was further out from his body(which is the case with a SSJ2), he had energy bolts constantly surging around him(which is the case with a SSJ2), and outright stated that he received a "massive" power up(which is the case with a SSJ2.) In the show, the color of his aura/bolts, as well as the sound effect the aura/bolts produced, were identical to that of SSJ2 Gohan.
Like I mentioned before, the similarities are too identical to be different, imo.
Originally posted by juggerman
An unprepared Gohan using his body as a shield for Vegeta. Goku managed to harm Cell and drop his ki as well but that didn't mean he was on Cell's level. If Cell couldn't regen he woulda been down much more than an arm fighting even Vegeta
Unprepared is hardly the term one would use to describe that...
That is speculation, and not based on anything remotely solid. The only time Cell was ever truly harmed by a direct fight with Vegeta was when he took a Final Flash head on. Hey look, under that same mentality, I can say krillin could FUBAR anyone else in the cast with kienzan, but we already know thats bullshit.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Unprepared is hardly the term one would use to describe that...That is speculation, and not based on anything remotely solid. The only time Cell was ever truly harmed by a direct fight with Vegeta was when he took a Final Flash head on. Hey look, under that same mentality, I can say krillin could FUBAR anyone else in the cast with kienzan, but we already know thats bullshit.
He was unprepared. He saw Cell about to kill Vegeta and simoly reacted. He threw his body in the way. He didn't try to block or bat it away at all he just let it smash him up. Now going by DBZ logic a weaker person can harm/kill a much stronger person if they aren't perpared.
Glad you brought up Krillin cuz i was just thinking about him and that attack. Nappa was ridiculously stronger than him yet a kienzan would have killed him. Hell Krillin could have the vastly superior Frieza with it as well had Frieza not dodged. Not to mention Krillin lopped Frieza's tail completely off while Cell was only able to injure Gohan's arm
My point is that Cell wouldn't have had to be at SSJ2 Gohan's level to pull off what he did. He could have come back a lot stronger but still be weaker than full power Gohan
Originally posted by juggerman
He was unprepared. He saw Cell about to kill Vegeta and simoly reacted. He threw his body in the way. He didn't try to block or bat it away at all he just let it smash him up. Now going by DBZ logic a weaker person can harm/kill a much stronger person if they aren't perpared.
That does not mean he was not prepared, because he saw the attack comming and reacted to it, thats the very definition of being prepared. What he was not prepared for was how much stronger the attack was compared to what Cell was throwing around in their prior engagement. He thought he was strong enough to tank it, and he was wrong.
Originally posted by juggerman
Glad you brought up Krillin cuz i was just thinking about him and that attack. Nappa was ridiculously stronger than him yet a kienzan would have killed him. Hell Krillin could have the vastly superior Frieza with it as well had Frieza not dodged. Not to mention Krillin lopped Frieza's tail completely off while Cell was only able to injure Gohan's arm
And yet, when Krillin used the kienzan on Cell's neck, Cell not only tanked it, but was completely oblivious to it, and the Kienzan shatered like glass.
Originally posted by juggerman
My point is that Cell wouldn't have had to be at SSJ2 Gohan's level to pull off what he did. He could have come back a lot stronger but still be weaker than full power Gohan
And yet it took the "Rage Boost" for SSJ2 Gohan to overcome SP Cell. You cannot ignore this.
Originally posted by juggerman
An unprepared Gohan using his body as a shield for Vegeta. Goku managed to harm Cell and drop his ki as well but that didn't mean he was on Cell's level. If Cell couldn't regen he woulda been down much more than an arm fighting even Vegeta
He wasn't using his full power when he fought Vegeta. He was slowly tapping into it until he fought Gohan so we have no telling where Cell power was when he was being damaged. Not a good example.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
That does not mean he was not prepared, because he saw the attack comming and reacted to it, thats the very definition of being prepared. What he was not prepared for was how much stronger the attack was compared to what Cell was throwing around in their prior engagement. He thought he was strong enough to tank it, and he was wrong.
He just reacted. If i jumped in front of a gunman to protect my loved one out of instinct that wouldn't automatically mean i was "prepared" to be shot in the face. Just that i reacted to protect someone else. Maybe the word i should have used was "ready". He may have known he would take a hit but he wasn't "ready" for it. Kinda like Houndini and the boxer. He took the hit distracted with no time to actually get ready to take the hit. He may have tanked it or deflected it otherwise.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
And yet, when Krillin used the kienzan on Cell's neck, Cell not only tanked it, but was completely oblivious to it, and the Kienzan shatered like glass.
That's because the gap in power between Krillin and Cell was about a billion times greater than the gap between Krillin and Nappa/Frieza or even Cell and Gohan. My point is that weaker people can seriously harm stronger people under the right circumstances. Which could be what happened with Cell hurting Gohan
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
And yet it took the "Rage Boost" for SSJ2 Gohan to overcome SP Cell. You cannot ignore this.
From a gohan at "half power". It may not have put him over what he originally had.
Originally posted by carver9
He wasn't using his full power when he fought Vegeta. He was slowly tapping into it until he fought Gohan so we have no telling where Cell power was when he was being damaged. Not a good example.
How about Vegeta harming Reccome? Or him hurting Fat Buu? Or Piccolo hurting Nappa? Or Krillin hurting Nappa? There are other examples i could use i guess that was just the one that popped in my head
Originally posted by juggerman
He just reacted. If i jumped in front of a gunman to protect my loved one out of instinct that wouldn't automatically mean i was "prepared" to be shot in the face. Just that i reacted to protect someone else. Maybe the word i should have used was "ready". He may have known he would take a hit but he wasn't "ready" for it. Kinda like Houndini and the boxer. He took the hit distracted with no time to actually get ready to take the hit. He may have tanked it or deflected it otherwise.
That is a complete fabrication... He didn't even see the shot that took out Trunks, and Vegeta was going to cop a similar shot, and Gohan knew he would survive the attack better because of his higher power amp at the time. Thats the only reason why he took that shot head on.
Originally posted by juggerman
That's because the gap in power between Krillin and Cell was about a billion times greater than the gap between Krillin and Nappa/Frieza or even Cell and Gohan. My point is that weaker people can seriously harm stronger people under the right circumstances. Which could be what happened with Cell hurting Gohan
My point with Krillin against P.Cell just proved you wrong though, didn't it...
Originally posted by juggerman
From a gohan at "half power". It may not have put him over what he originally had.
That is pure speculation on your part, and based on how much higher SP.Cell's power level was, you would have to ignore the fact that Cell convincingly oneshotting a 2nd stage USSJ (Mirai Trunks) and was about to oneshot another USSJ (Vegeta), whereas his previous self and a bunch of mini-me Cell juniors were not oneshotting them.
Originally posted by juggerman
How about Vegeta harming Reccome? Or him hurting Fat Buu? Or Piccolo hurting Nappa? Or Krillin hurting Nappa? There are other examples i could use i guess that was just the one that popped in my head
Recoome and Vegeta power level was so close that him harming Recoome shouldn't even matter. Buu and Vegeta, Super Saiyan 2 power level was so close that Vegeta harming him shouldn't even matter. Krillin used the destructo disk against Nappa...one of the sharpest objects in DBZ...not a good example. Now Krillin did BLAST at Nappa and Nappa tanked it...easily.
When did Piccolo harm Nappa? Even if he did harm him, its pretty clear Nappa was powering up through the fight as the threat began to get bigger. Nappa was not at full power. Your examples are "not" good...at all.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I would have to still side with Broly here. The biggest issue is that Broly seems to have an unlimited Zenkai booster constantly going off. His power is much like Gohan's "rage mode", except that it doesn't need a prior reaction toi trigger, and it seems to be everlasting as long as he remains in LSSJ mode.Super Cell would have to peg Broly very early on in the fight, like when he is in normal mode. After that, Broly shrugged off a hit from USSJ Vegeta in the back of the head and was completely oblivious to it. USSJ Vegeta actually caused Super Cell to stagger and take enough effort to repulse him while beaming at Gohan.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Gohan was never truly at half power.Goku said it was all in Gohan's head.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Heh, while I think Buu would be a little bit out of Broly's reach, cell, and especially Frieza would get mangled if they fought him.
Ignoring the PIS, is the USSJ Goku that took out LSSJ Broly with the remaining energy he got from his fallen allies actually on SSJ2 teen Gohan's level? I don't think he was, though could be wrong.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I actually forgot about that bit with Vegeta and Super Cell. The staggering probably just happened though because Cell wasn't initially expecting Vegeta to attack the moment he did, as he had his attention mostly turned to Gohan still. When Cell and Vegeta were actually fighting before the tournament, a kick to the neck by Vegeta didn't make regular P. Cell flinch, anymore than Krillen's kienzan did.
Well, there was also the Final Flash bit that nearly wiped Cell out too... 😛
True, but Cell was actually fully paying attention to Vegeta at that point, unlike Broly who was so intently focusted on Goku, he was haywiring his mind control headband.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Frieza, of course. Cell, it depends.Ignoring the PIS, is the USSJ Goku that took out LSSJ Broly with the remaining energy he got from his fallen allies actually on SSJ2 teen Gohan's level? I don't think he was, though could be wrong.
He was doing far worse against broly without it than he was against Cell, so I would have to say, yeah. fom getting absolutely stomped by Broly, to oneshotting him is a massive leap in power, and the fact that Goku wasn't doing anywhere near as badly against Cell as he was against Broly... Well, I'm pretty sure you understand where I'm going with this...
