Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Prove this please.Juggernaut versus Thor and The New Warriors is the first instance I know of for Thor taking on Juggernaut, ever.
I'd genuinely appreciate knowing if they had something before that, but I don't think they did.
Note too, I have not been suggesting Thor would have an easy time fighting SBP. I am sure Superboy Prime WOULD give him a hard battle.
But this is not Thor taking on Prime alone. This is Thor with at least the assistance of Rulk and World War Hulk, assuming Ares, War Machine, and perhaps even Iron Man have not ALL been killed. And the history of those characters, Hulk at least, suggests they're not just going to wait around and let Thor be pounded into a bloody pulp. So you'd essentially have the case of Thor and New Warriors versus Juggernaut, with the "New Warriors" (Iron Man, Rulk, and World War Hulk) giving Thor the time he needs to recover enough for Round 2 against "Juggernaut" (SBP).
I could be mixing-up fights a little(both order and characters) but it doesn't change the fact that Thor in character does not resort to the tactics you're arguing until he's been doing poorly in the fight, or has already previously lost to them. And you completely ignored the point I made about your scans of Thor BFRing Destroyer(died by the Destroyer's hands in the previous issue and oh yeah had already fought Destroyer more than once). He had to have major trouble against Juggernaut before resorting to these tactics you're arguing. And that's not counting Hulk, who he's rarely fought without doing anything fancier than an occasional lightning bolt or energy blast. Which I mean even using energy against Hulk is rare, let alone anything more esoteric.
As for your argument about Thor having WWH and Rulk's help, let's take the entire team together and compare to another team Superboy Prime has fought.
Thor, WWH, Rulk, Ares, Iron Man and War Machine<<Superman, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Girl, Alan Scott and more. And they couldn't put a WEAKENED SBP down.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I don't know all that much about Black Adam so I can't comment about him specifically. Were it Captain Marvel you were talking about, immediately the question would come "Are Mary Marvel and Freddy Marvel splitting the Shazam power with him? (Meaning CM would be at only about 1/3 rd his normal strength, according to some comics.)
Black Adam is basically a non-sharing Captain Marvel but more ruthless.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
If you're talking about amped punches, you presumably mean amped with magic, which Superboy Prime is generally more resistant to than the average Kryptonian. If he's only getting hit with magic aura (I don't remember what the specific scene you're talking about looks like, I'm envisioning an Alan Scott-type construct or glow around Black Adam's hands) it would only make sense his attacks were less effective than the blows of purely strong, or even magically strong opponents attacking only with their fists.
The amping would be amping the strength, not adding mystic energy to it. Saying SBP is resistant to magick is an excuse to dismiss the scan. And to top it off, Black Adam was intending to KILL SBP. But Superboy Prime was unharmed(simply messing with Adam) by FIVE of Adam's amped punches, done with the intention to kill. Even if we ignore that it's not simply Adam adding mystical energy and pretend these punches have no greater effect, Black Adam's base strength is still greater than that of Superboy or Wonder Girl's, and he's punching SBP with the intention to kill. Too bad for your argument that either the amp has no effect, or it simply boosts Adam's strength instead of adding ineffective mystic energy, it's still superior to your lowball.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
As for "can't be put down by multiple top tiers, while weakened", that's actually easily explained, too, for the really heavy hitters tend to constrain themselves when they know there's a chance a friend could catch their blow by mistake in the melee. This is actually one point brought up with Hulk fighting against Zeus. He was angry at Skaar and the others trying to help him in his fight because their presence, presumably, meant it would be difficult for him to fully unload the way he'd need in order to stand a chance. A theory, supported, by the way, by Hulk able to go World Breaker and shatter a planet with residual energy once isolated in the Dark Dimension and assured his friends would survive.One-on-one, with nothing to lose, heroes tend to throw down quite a bit more intensely.
Maybe you buy it, but nobody else does. Superman would be the only one who would hold back, but he still knows what SBP can take(especially since he had just heat visioned through Superman's shoulder, showing he's still damn powerful) and would be hitting with greater force than either Wonder Girl or Superboy can produce. But even if they were holding back, that's still far more force combined than simply Wonder Girl or Superboy.
But it's funny that you think them holding back somehow equals inferior force he's taking to just Wonder Girl or Superboy. And oh yeah, Superboy Prime was weakened.
Face it, Blue. The team here doesn't have the power to put Superboy Prime down without you resorting to lowballing, and are unlikely to regularly use the tactics that would be required TO beat him. They don't know about red solar energy or Kryptonite(which wouldn't work anyways unless they somehow got a hold of Earth Prime Element Lad or someone similar), and even after going through Rao, Superboy Prime was powerful enough to beat Kal-L to death while his powers were rapidly evaporating. And Red Star only had ANY noticeable effect because the Sun hadn't come-up yet. And the odds are in favor of Superboy Prime coming-out of whatever dimension he's put in if they even do try BFR. Your arguments about him taking time to escape the Speed Force or the "Paradise Dimension" are invalid because he didn't TRY to escape the later for a long time, and the former I'm pretty sure there were extenuating circumstances(I'll have to reread, but I'm reasonably sure). Even if I'm misremembering about the Speed Force example, that's still 2 examples of him breaking out of dimensions without issue to your one.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider. Blue we have probably never agreed on anything on this board, but I have to say you are very articulate (delta too) and you do a great job of bringing your point across. I am sure you are very proud of this as you should be but you know all the effort you put into your posts get negated by your links. I don't know why but i x'd out of your links and it closes out the browser. I can use the back button instead but the norm here is just to x out of the picture and not the browser. It's inconvenient to be reading a post, x out and then you have to reload the browser, get onto kmc, find the thread, navigate to the page and the location of your post and restart where previous spot. That is a big inconvenience, I am sure you want people to read your post especially with all the effort you put in. Right? Then I think you should care about what others prefer. I read your posts but have stopped clicking on your links unless it's absolutely necessary.
Delta,You took the time to write all of that so I'll respond with courtesy and say "Thank you."
However, everything you mention has another side.
How am I viewed by other posters?
Not really a concern for me.You talk about people like Blight.
Do I personally know him?
Have I ever interacted with or attacked him for anything on any occasion?
There's no justification for him responding the way he did and he himself knows it. I am using the boards exactly the way they were intended to be used, and violating no rules. Can he say the same? Can you?But as someone who has contributed through a multitude of comicbook scans to my reading enjoyment, I will point out to you that my click-able links are, ultimately a concession to you. Notice that they present all in one place and all in one post, complete with reference information.
They even have tags to illustrate their relevance to the thread topic.
I seriously doubt you can say even your links have significant advantage or more user-friendliness than that.
Originally posted by iceman24567
Originally posted by Blight
I don't want no scrubs.
Originally posted by Delta1938
At the end of the day, the most powerful Teen Titans I would say who beat SBP down were Miss Martian, Wonder Girl and Superboy.
That's far far less than the team who were unable to put him down earlier, when he was weakened - Miss Martian, Wonder Girl, Supergirl, Superman, Power Girl, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter? Unless of course, you are arguing that the sum of all of these heroes, holding back, are less than the sum of those three heroes going all out?
I don't buy it.
Obviously, bluewater, you do.
Also, anyone of those three Titans are < a Black Adam who is going out for the kill. You do not know who Black Adam is - read the WW3 storyline. THAT is what he does when he's out for blood. So much so, that there is a thread on this forum lumping him in with the likes of WBH, OWAW Superman and Siege Sentry. These are the kinds of people who you need to stop Black Adam:
And SBP dismissed him and laughed in his face.
👆
Black Adam was a non-threat to SBP, they were playing an entirely different game.
But people love to grasp on his lowest showings.
Despite that he has torn through huge numbers of Green Lanterns with absolute ease (Nearly strangling Guy Gardner with one hand and snapping Hal's arm in the process), he's taken on teams of up to top tier characters while weakened and put on a good show (And when his power returned, there was no contest, they were powerless to stop him), he's bitched Guardians with little effort (Poking his fingers through one's face easily), and hell, even survived tearing through the Anti-Monitor's shell. Oh, and he does use speed fairly often, as a matter of fact.
Originally posted by NemeBro
👆Black Adam was a non-threat to SBP, they were playing an entirely different game.
But people love to grasp on his lowest showings.
Despite that he has torn through huge numbers of Green Lanterns with absolute ease (Nearly strangling Guy Gardner with one hand and snapping Hal's arm in the process), he's taken on teams of up to top tier characters while weakened and put on a good show (And when his power returned, there was no contest, they were powerless to stop him), he's bitched Guardians with little effort (Poking his fingers through one's face easily), and hell, even survived tearing through the Anti-Monitor's shell. Oh, and he does use speed fairly often, as a matter of fact.
We'll ignore all that for the Teen Titans showing. Because Connor Kent >all.
Hulk solos and I come to realize that when powerful people in DC join forces to fight a foe, the ninja law kills them. Despero, Titus, Wonder Woman (while blind), Doctor Poloris, Doctor Light, Prime, Black Adam, Doomsday, and the list goes on has taken it to a DC top team and its sad. Marvel doesn't let crap like that happen, each character gets their deserved respect.
Originally posted by carver9
Hulk solos and I come to realize that when powerful people in DC join forces to fight a foe, the ninja law kills them. Despero, Titus, Wonder Woman (while blind), Doctor Poloris, Doctor Light, Prime, Black Adam, Doomsday, and the list goes on has taken it to a DC top team and its sad. Marvel doesn't let crap like that happen, each character gets their deserved respect.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
*Ahem* World War Hulk *ahem*
It wasn't as bad. The General soloed the JLA and he would get worked by WWH. Despero soloed the JLA and JSA and would physically get his leg snapped like a twig against WWH. Team battles in DC isn't trust Worthing or realiable imo. The ninja law kills them.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Irony. Hulk himself is notorious for making people forget their powers.
And this doesn't apply to 90% of the battles that take place in comics. When did Martian Manhunter use all of his abilities when he faced Doomsday? When did Surfer use all of his abilities when he fought Beta Ray Bill? When did Orion use all of his abilities when he fought Superman. Stop responding to my post lowballer. Let me and Dark handle this.
Originally posted by carver9
It wasn't as bad. The General soloed the JLA and he would get worked by WWH. Despero soloed the JLA and JSA and would physically get his leg snapped like a twig against WWH. Team battles in DC isn't trust Worthing or realiable imo. The ninja law kills them.
Lol not as bad?
I just gave you three example within one storyline alone.
But it does not matter. There is no DC-good/Marvel-bad dichotomy, or even vice-versa. Both companies are equally as bad, and sometimes equally good as each other.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And in case you ask me, but DS, whatever do you mean?Iron Man with the nanites.
Pixie with the BFR.
Reed with his weaponry which can take out Celestials.
Name me a battle where two people use ALL of their abilities. Hell, the fights you are using with Prime, they didn't even use close to half of their powers against him.
Originally posted by carver9
It wasn't as bad. The General soloed the JLA and he would get worked by WWH. Despero soloed the JLA and JSA and would physically get his leg snapped like a twig against WWH. Team battles in DC isn't trust Worthing or realiable imo. The ninja law kills them.