Link vs Luffy

Originally posted by BloodRain
Sticking with out. TP Ganon if the one that's knocked over by simple cow tipping.

LoZ Ganon, weakened to vulnerability.
OoT Ganon, weakened to a point where he screams in pain as he collapses.
Killing OoA/S Ganon.

Knocked over, weakened, collapsed and death by non-evils bane weapons without the ToP acting like regen.

Legend of Zelda had the magic sword and silver arrows, which are evil's bane. Link also used the Triforce of Wisdom upon entering the room.

In Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf can't be hit until you reflect his magic back at him, and then hit him with Light Arrows. So there is an evil's bane weapon at work there. Ganon had an actual weak point, and had to be finished off with the Master Sword, though he survived anyway.

Oracle of Ages and Seasons featured a partially revived Ganon made from a ritual that was done incorrectly with the wrong sacrifice. Not really a normal circumstance, and I'm not totally sure he had the Triforce of Power there.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Sticking with out. TP Ganon if the one that's knocked over by simple cow tipping.

LoZ Ganon, weakened to vulnerability.
OoT Ganon, weakened to a point where he screams in pain as he collapses.
Killing OoA/S Ganon.

Knocked over, weakened, collapsed and death by non-evils bane weapons without the ToP acting like regen.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Legend of Zelda had the magic sword and silver arrows, which are evil's bane. Link also used the Triforce of Wisdom upon entering the room.

In Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf can't be hit until you reflect his magic back at him, and then hit him with Light Arrows. So there is an evil's bane weapon at work there. Ganon had an actual weak point, and had to be finished off with the Master Sword, though he survived anyway.

Oracle of Ages and Seasons featured a partially revived Ganon made from a ritual that was done incorrectly with the wrong sacrifice. Not really a normal circumstance, and I'm not totally sure he had the Triforce of Power there.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
LoZ, Magic sword = Master Sword.
OoT, knocked over. Ganon screams when he so much as swings his swords. Whoopty doo. Also light arrows.
Oracles games, Ganon doesn't have his piece of the triforce. These games start with the triforce sending Link away.

There a quote or reason for that, or said to be evil repellent?

Only meant with Ganon though Im pretty sure that after stunning him you can hit Dorf with any weapon. And unless theres a specific reason, his tail being a weak point is a gameplay thing. Sword, hammer, even a hookshot to the face can harm him.
OoT, damaged, screaming in pain, collapses and takes a while to lumber back up. You don't need the light arrows to be able to hit him.

I'll give you the ritual, but doesnt he have the ToP in every reincarnation since activating he first activated it in OoT/TP?

Any how, as at least OoT proves, Ganondorf can be harmed without the ToP healing him.

I don't know about the Magic Sword, but the Silver Arrows are said to be Evil's Bane and they get the killing blow.

On OoT, do you the bit where he crouches down and stops holding up the wall of fire? After that you get the Master Sword back and after the fight the game forces you to use the Master Sword to finish him. Ganon gets stabbed in the head, but is shown to be fine, if angry, minutes later.

The Oracle games start with the whole Triforce teleporting Link to Labrynna/Holodrum. Unless Ganon goes at gets it at some point it should still be whole in those games.

Originally posted by BloodRain
There a quote or reason for that, or said to be evil repellent?

Only meant with Ganon though Im pretty sure that after stunning him you can hit Dorf with any weapon. And unless theres a specific reason, his tail being a weak point is a gameplay thing. Sword, hammer, even a hookshot to the face can harm him.
OoT, damaged, screaming in pain, collapses and takes a while to lumber back up. You don't need the light arrows to be able to hit him.

I'll give you the ritual, but doesnt he have the ToP in every reincarnation since activating he first activated it in OoT/TP?

Any how, as at least OoT proves, Ganondorf can be harmed without the ToP healing him.

There's a limit on everything, but you are kind of taking OoT out of context here. Attacking Ganon with other weapons can only knock him down for a few moments, and then he just gets right back up. Forever. You cannot do any real damage to him without the master sword. And by the time you get it back, Zelda still has to use all of her power to make sure Ganon remains in a prone position.

Besides which point Link had already beaten him up with said master sword. It's not like he was in great shape before the fight.

I don't know about the Magic Sword, but the Silver Arrows are said to be Evil's Bane and they get the killing blow.

On OoT, do you the bit where he crouches down and stops holding up the wall of fire? After that you get the Master Sword back and after the fight the game forces you to use the Master Sword to finish him. Ganon gets stabbed in the head, but is shown to be fine, if angry, minutes later.

There's a limit on everything, but you are kind of taking OoT out of context here. Attacking Ganon with other weapons can only knock him down for a few moments, and then he just gets right back up. Forever. You cannot do any real damage to him without the master sword. And by the time you get it back, Zelda still has to use all of her power to make sure Ganon remains in a prone position.

Besides which point Link had already beaten him up with said master sword. It's not like he was in great shape before the fight.

If Ganon wasnt in great shape at this point, that just confirms that the ToP isnt a means of recovery.

Heck even in TP the only way Ganon survived was to revert to a Twilight energy form.

The Oracle games start with the whole Triforce teleporting Link to Labrynna/Holodrum. Unless Ganon goes at gets it at some point it should still be whole in those games.

Originally posted by BloodRain
A Silver Arrow gives the final blow, but to get him there you must weaken him with the sword. The White Sword is a normal sword, and besides the Magical Sword not having any -evil stats, its also not needed to fight Ganon.

At that point he's for the most part out and cant even stand let alone maintain the fire. Im not saying these weapons can kill him, but they can damage him greatly.

If Ganon wasnt in great shape at this point, that just confirms that the ToP isnt a means of recovery.

Heck even in TP the only way Ganon survived was to revert to a Twilight energy form.

He got the ToP in TP without himself physically touching it.

And no, Ganondorf reformed his entire body in TP.

Also, OoA/OoS happens far into the future. The flashback in TP happens at the same time as Ganondorf touched the triforce in another timeline, IE, OoT. He got it at the same time in TP as he did in OoT because paralell timelines.

Note that a non-evil smiting weapon did nothing to hinder him.

So it has nothing to do with the ToP healing him.

Using the same Twilight powers he used before. And him healing [TP] to where he was apparently weakened [OoT] by the same weapon and didnt heal makes a contradiction.

How did WW Dorf get it?

Nothing besides being able able to weaken him to a useless state [OoT and TP].

Originally posted by BloodRain
So it has nothing to do with the ToP healing him.

Using the same Twilight powers he used before. And him healing [TP] to where he was apparently weakened [OoT] by the same weapon and didnt heal makes a contradiction.

How did WW Dorf get it?

Nothing besides being able able to weaken him to a useless state [OoT and TP].

TP Ganondorf was dying without the ToP, when he gained it, a hole in the chest was not even inconvenient to him. This has nothing to do with twilight magic. He'd never even been there.

OoT, He gets cut up to the point he coughs up blood and collapses. Link used the Master Sword to do this. Afterwards Ganon bursts out of the rubble of a collapsed castle and the ToP transforms his body into Ganon. Link can knock him over but cannot actually put him out of the fight without The Master Sword.

What's inconsistant?

He was never weakened to a useless state in OoT or TP... He got knocked over a few times, but Link fought Ganondorf four godamn times in TP. That does not sound like he was ever weakened to uselessness. Link fights him twice, Midna hits him so hard the castle explodes, Ganon is fine, Link fights him on horseback with light arrow support, then fights him again.

That's four rounds of being blasted by his own magic and taking hits from a global-scale evil smiting weapon.

WW Dorf still had the ToP because he never lost it in OoT, and WW is a sequel to OoT.

Are we still talking about my theory Scream or what?

I mean, I feel kind of vindicated with Scenario saying that the Triforce has only ever been used for wishing.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Wrong.

TP Ganondorf was dying without the ToP, when he gained it, a hole in the chest was not even inconvenient to him. This has nothing to do with twilight magic. He'd never even been there.

OoT, He gets cut up to the point he coughs up blood and collapses. Link used the Master Sword to do this. Afterwards Ganon bursts out of the rubble of a collapsed castle and the ToP transforms his body into Ganon. Link can knock him over but cannot actually put him out of the fight without The Master Sword.

What's inconsistant?

He was never weakened to a useless state in OoT or TP... He got knocked over a few times, but Link fought Ganondorf [b]four godamn times in TP. That does not sound like he was ever weakened to uselessness. Link fights him twice, Midna hits him so hard the castle explodes, Ganon is fine, Link fights him on horseback with light arrow support, then fights him again.

That's four rounds of being blasted by his own magic and taking hits from a global-scale evil smiting weapon.

WW Dorf still had the ToP because he never lost it in OoT, and WW is a sequel to OoT. [/B]

I'm talking about the boss fight. He was defeated and instead of coming back like a regen would, he has to use his Twilight powers to come back as that ghost face.

The inconsistency was you saying that he was weakened before the Ganon fight, as if he was and was drawing on all of the ToPs power, and it wasnt able to heal him. Oh, and in the end of TP he is killed by the MS where it didnt kill him in the Beast fight nor the OoT fight.

Three as the first was possession. Which Beast Ganon was the first match, and was knocked out then.

But if WWDorf was revived with the ToP because OoTDorf had it, wouldn't OoS/ADorf also be revived with it as he comes after the same Dorf in a different timeline?

At the start of this you claimed how any damage Luffy lands will be fruitless as the ToP will save Link from any injuries. But the very fact that Ganon /does/ get harmed and /does/ collapse proves that he /can/ be damaged without being healed by the ToP.

I'm talking about the boss fight. He was defeated and instead of coming back like a regen would, he has to use his Twilight powers to come back as that ghost face.

This is wrong.

He displays the head form before he shows any Twilight magic, nothing suggests it is Twilight magic since he approached Zant in this form.

He also returns to his normal form immediately after.

He's beaten up twice, blasted with his own magic and hit with the MS, than tanks a castle buster of non-evil smite and is completely unharmed in a cutscene, so uh, yeah, not sure what you're citing?

The inconsistency was you saying that he was weakened before the Ganon fight, as if he was and was drawing on all of the ToPs power, and it wasnt able to heal him. Oh, and in the end of TP he is killed by the MS where it didnt kill him in the Beast fight nor the OoT fight.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. He was weakened before the Ganon fight, Link carved his ass up in OoT, there's a cutscene where he coughs up blood and everything. You know, because he got cut up with the Master Sword.

I'm not sure what you think I'm claiming, either. I've never claimed the ToP makes him regen?

Three as the first was possession. Which Beast Ganon was the first match, and was knocked out then.

But if WWDorf was revived with the ToP because OoTDorf had it, wouldn't OoS/ADorf also be revived with it as he comes after the same Dorf in a different timeline?

Oracles Dorf comes from a timeline after Dorf did lost it, likely aLttP, where the Triforce is what sends Link to another world to begin with.

At the start of this you claimed how any damage Luffy lands will be fruitless as the ToP will save Link from any injuries. But the very fact that Ganon /does/ get harmed and /does/ collapse proves that he /can/ be damaged without being healed by the ToP.

Uh, no, it proves that the MS can put him down. 😐

Luffy doesn't have the Master Sword.

I also never claimed it made him regen or whatever you think I said. The fact is, Luffy cannot put damage on something that can exist comfortably with a hole in it's chest like it's no big deal.

Your claim has one massive hole in it, BR, which I keep citing.

The Master Sword's entire point is that it is capable of putting Ganon down. Nothing less will do the job. 😐

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Uh, no, it proves that the MS can put him down. 😐

Luffy doesn't have the Master Sword.

Luffy could always just wrestle it away from Link and stab him with it if you're that hung up over it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Luffy could always just wrestle it away from Link and stab him with it if you're that hung up over it.

The sword is sentient and smites evil.

No he wouldn't.

So it won't smite Link because he's a good guy? Does that mean that it wouldn't smite Luffy because he's also a good guy?

Originally posted by Nephthys
No he wouldn't.

So it won't smite Link because he's a good guy? Does that mean that it wouldn't smite Luffy because he's also a good guy?

Also, we never claimed she'd smite Luffy. She'd cut him like a mother****er though. And who knows, it's possible she might just smite him for attacking Link. mmm Not like it matters. Sharp things = good.

By the way, Ether. Counter it, plz.

And yes, yes he would. It just isn't a point worth arguing because it makes no difference.

He displays the head form before he shows any Twilight magic, nothing suggests it is Twilight magic since he approached Zant in this form. He also returns to his normal form immediately after.

He's beaten up twice, blasted with his own magic and hit with the MS, than tanks a castle buster of non-evil smite and is completely unharmed in a cutscene, so uh, yeah, not sure what you're citing?

There something that says he gained the powers after meeting Zant?

None of that has anything to do with the ToP healing him.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. He was weakened before the Ganon fight, Link carved his ass up in OoT, there's a cutscene where he coughs up blood and everything. You know, because he got cut up with the Master Sword.

I'm not sure what you think I'm claiming, either. I've never claimed the ToP makes him regen?

"with the ToP physical injury isn't really an issue." when we have him being hurt all the time.

He wasn't knocked out, he went for two more rounds.

No, WWDorf, IS OoT Dorf centuries later, OoT Dorf never lost the ToP.

Uh, no, it proves that the MS can put him down.

Luffy doesn't have the Master Sword.

I also never claimed it made him regen or whatever you think I said. The fact is, Luffy cannot put damage on something that can exist comfortably with a hole in it's chest like it's no big deal.

Your claim has one massive hole in it, BR, which I keep citing.

The Master Sword's entire point is that it is capable of putting Ganon down. Nothing less will do the job.

I'm not debating about about what can finish him off nor do I care. My point is:
1. Luffy > the kind of attacks that can /temporarily/ knock Ganon out, like that of the Biggorons sword or being slammed to the ground by Midna/Wolf Link. If these things can harm him, like they can, Luffy can harm him too.
2. The MS being the only thing that can kill him is a no-limits, leading to..
3. The best durability feat we've seen is tanking a city-block explosion. Something Luffy is above.

Luffy has more force than both the attacks that can hit his brakes and the best durability feats he's shown.

"with the ToP physical injury isn't really an issue." when we have him being hurt all the time.

This is your argument, he can be hurt by the master sword, so despite all evidence to the contrary, Luffy smacking him is going to be a problem?

1. Luffy > the kind of attacks that can /temporarily/ knock Ganon out, like that of the Biggorons sword or being slammed to the ground by Midna/Wolf Link. If these things can harm him, like they can, Luffy can harm him too.
2. The MS being the only thing that can kill him is a no-limits, leading to..
3. The best durability feat we've seen is tanking a city-block explosion. Something Luffy is above.

1. No, it can't. Both fights involve him being hit with the Master Sword while he is down. The part where he's knocked over so it can be done is just that, he is knocked over.
2. I never said it was the only thing that could hurt him. I said nothing less will do. Which is not a no-limits fallacy.
3. Except you're wrong again. Midna left not a scratch on him. Kool, but the important thing is; The hole in his chest? Remember that? This also implies that Link can physically harm Ganon without the MS and Midna cannot, making him a physical castle buster... Are you insane?

Lets say Luffy, in theory, could actually physically harm someone who possessed the entire triforce. All right, I'm imagining it. He punches a hole in the guy and... ****ing nothing happens. haermm

Except that Ether is cast a moment later.

Want to know why?

Because Luffy lacks the magical means to disable him.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Why would she smite her master? 😐 Serious question.

Well she is a failsafe for the Triforce.....

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
If she turned on Link he wouldn't even be able to touch her, and yes, Luffy could use her power to beat him.... But that's a stupid suggestion that would never happen. haermm

Also, we never claimed she'd smite Luffy. She'd cut him like a mother****er though. And who knows, it's possible she might just smite him for attacking Link. mmm Not like it matters. Sharp things = good.

Whats the difference between smiting something and just cutting it? If Luffy cuts Link with the Master Sword would he die?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
By the way, Ether. Counter it, plz.

Gear 2nd. Luffy superheats his body.

Or: Speedblitz. Luffy continuously pounds Link so hard that he can't use Ether.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And yes, yes he would. It just isn't a point worth arguing because it makes no difference.

You still haven't proven that the Triforce would physically amp Link yet. Scenario says that the Triforce has never been used for anything but wishing, and amazingly I'm inclined to believe him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You still haven't proven that the Triforce would physically amp Link yet. Scenario says that the Triforce has never been used for anything but wishing, and amazingly I'm inclined to believe him.

Well, it's mostly just a conclusion based on the the fact that Triforce of Power can physically amp someone. Assuming the whole Triforce has the same abilities as its individual pieces isn't unreasonable.

Otherwise, yes, no one has ever used the whole thing without making a wish.