Russell Edgington vs. Link (TP)

Originally posted by quanchi112
We know the creators have intended what can hurt a character by the gameplay mechanics. We know Link can be hurt by him. By your logic Link can't kill Bulbin.

By your logic Link's epic quest is him crushing 90 percent of his enemies who lack the power to even harm him. Ridiculous.

Yes. Ever played Devil May Cry or God of War? Dante and Kratos are both repeatedly and constantly proven to be so far above 90% of what they face, yet the same thing happens here. Or Asura's Wrath, where the guy can tank a hit from a planet sized buddha whilst still being hurt in gameplay by things that at best one-shot humans.

Welcome to to the land of Video Games, enjoy your complimentary Hit Points.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it does not. You are not getting it.

Gameplay mechanics. Dragon can hurt Link he just fails to kill Link.

I don't think you understand my position here. Going on the gameplay argument, that is.

Yes, the dragon 'hurts' Link in some way, and it fails to kill him. This Dragon, Argorok, has destroyed a stone bridge with one attack, shattering it.

Now, let's apply this same standard to Russell Edgington. He has slapped a guy's head off. Stronger, but weaker than Argorok. Based on Link's in-game portrayal, Russell would do exactly the same thing that Argorok did to Link, even a little less. He'd fail to kill Link, but do some unspecified 'damage'. Not permanent damage, mind you, as Link always gets back up perfectly fine.

That's what you're not getting about this "gameplay portrayal" thing. It still means Link has taken damage that would kill a human hundreds of times over. All you're doing is shifting him from "high durability" to "high damage soak."

Why don't we try this: Go play Twilight Princess again. When you get the bombs, go blow up that huge boulder in Kakariko. Only this time, don't run away, and let the bomb explode on Link. Watch as the boulder shatters, and then be amazed as Link gets back up, only slightly worse for wear. Hm, that seems like a pretty durable portrayal, even if he took damage. A bomb that destroys tons of rock and Link is not only still in one piece, he's still able to fight as if nothing happened?

So yeah, Russell's in the same boat as everything else in the game. "Did damage, failed to kill or cripple." And then he gets incinerated.

I could care less what any of you think. It is ridiculous. You diminish Link's accomplishment in the end by saying most of his enemies can't harm him. Hysterical.

Why does that diminish anything again? He's still heroic, he's still threatened by Zant and Ganondorf, he still needs to try. Most of the things you're talking about are minion tier anyway. Hey, isn't Russell supposed to be far above all of his enemies? I guess we can just toss all of his accomplishments out the window, too.

I do not ignore the cutscene at all. You want to just look at that while dismissing prior cutscenes and cherry picking feats.

I think you've misunderstood my point here. Link improves over time. That is a fact you can't deny. So why are you giving an early game showing the same weight as a late game one? Why are you acting as if Link stayed the same over the course of the game when it's repeatedly shown how much better he's gotten? Why are you ignoring the Triforce of Courage, the Hero's Shade, and what the game shows?

This isn't cherry picking. We have not ignored that a Bokoblin has knocked Link unconscious. We have, however, acknowledged that it happened before the Triforce of Courage awakened, and before Link became a hero. We acknowledge that he has changed since then, so the showing does not carry the same weight as a later one would.

Early game Link and late game Link are fundamentally different. Would you say Tara is exactly the same after she becomes a vampire? Would you include a showing of her being blitzed as a human and use it to say she's slow as a vampire?

Would you use low showings from Tom Riddle as standards for Voldemort?

Would you say Thanos with the Infinity Guantlet would still nearly lose to Odin the way unarmed Thanos did?

If not, why would you treat Link that way?

Originally posted by The Scenario
I don't think you understand my position here. Going on the gameplay argument, that is.

Yes, the dragon 'hurts' Link in some way, and it fails to kill him. This Dragon, Argorok, has destroyed a stone bridge with one attack, shattering it.

Now, let's apply this same standard to Russell Edgington. He has slapped a guy's head off. Stronger, but weaker than Argorok. Based on Link's in-game portrayal, Russell would do exactly the same thing that Argorok did to Link, even a little less. He'd fail to kill Link, but do some unspecified 'damage'. Not permanent damage, mind you, as Link always gets back up perfectly fine.

That's what you're not getting about this "gameplay portrayal" thing. It still means Link has taken damage that would kill a human hundreds of times over. All you're doing is shifting him from "high durability" to "high damage soak."

Why don't we try this: Go play Twilight Princess again. When you get the bombs, go blow up that huge boulder in Kakariko. Only this time, don't run away, and let the bomb explode on Link. Watch as the boulder shatters, and then be amazed as Link gets back up, only slightly worse for wear. Hm, that seems like a pretty durable portrayal, even if he took damage. A bomb that destroys tons of rock and Link is not only still in one piece, he's still able to fight as if nothing happened?

So yeah, Russell's in the same boat as everything else in the game. "Did damage, failed to kill or cripple." And then he gets incinerated.

Why does that diminish anything again? He's still heroic, he's still threatened by Zant and Ganondorf, he still needs to try. Most of the things you're talking about are minion tier anyway. Hey, isn't Russell supposed to be far above all of his enemies? I guess we can just toss all of his accomplishments out the window, too.

I think you've misunderstood my point here. Link improves over time. That is a fact you can't deny. So why are you giving an early game showing the same weight as a late game one? Why are you acting as if Link stayed the same over the course of the game when it's repeatedly shown how much better he's gotten? Why are you ignoring the Triforce of Courage, the Hero's Shade, and what the game shows?

This isn't cherry picking. We have not ignored that a Bokoblin has knocked Link unconscious. We have, however, acknowledged that it happened before the Triforce of Courage awakened, and before Link became a hero. We acknowledge that he has changed since then, so the showing does not carry the same weight as a later one would.

Early game Link and late game Link are fundamentally different. Would you say Tara is exactly the same after she becomes a vampire? Would you include a showing of her being blitzed as a human and use it to say she's slow as a vampire?

Would you use low showings from Tom Riddle as standards for Voldemort?

Would you say Thanos with the Infinity Guantlet would still nearly lose to Odin the way unarmed Thanos did?

If not, why would you treat Link that way?

Russell has the strength to slap heads off but he does not always his his maximum strength with every attack. Being stronger than someone does not make one invulnerable to the other characters attacks either especially given how Link is portrayed in the game.

Russell can still be harmed by his opponents. I never claimed no one can harm him. You claim Link's major quest is going up guys who can't hurt him. What a courageous hero.

His skill improves, his overall formidability, and a slight strength increase. That's it. He does not become suddenly invulnerable throughout the game.

I would use all showings but again the context can be explained. That's it. Link was a shitty warrior at the beginning of the game but he doesn't transform into some invulnerable stud midway through the game.

Originally posted by BloodRain
You cant say it works that way for Zant but not for Link :T

Yes. Ever played Devil May Cry or God of War? Dante and Kratos are both repeatedly and constantly proven to be so far above 90% of what they face, yet the same thing happens here. Or Asura's Wrath, where the guy can tank a hit from a planet sized buddha whilst still being hurt in gameplay by things that at best one-shot humans.

Welcome to to the land of Video Games, enjoy your complimentary Hit Points.

Those guys are on another level but they can still be hurt by their enemies. They are too skilled, too strong, and are not going to sit there.

The skill difference between Kratos and Link is on another level entirely.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
He hops to his feat without hesitation, like nothing happened, lol.

Feats > You

Ragdolling a boar is combat strength.

If two people weighing the same amount engage in a tug of war, the winner will be the stronger one.

Feats and portrayal. You can't just highlight one aspect while ignoring the other aspect to push your agenda.

It is lifting strength which is nowhere near as impressive as eviscerating a body through bone with ease.

If one needs to increase his weight unfairly he is not stronger. That's called cheating as it is outside the rules since one has an unfair advantage.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he just does not lose.

Feats and portrayal. You can't just highlight one aspect while ignoring the other aspect to push your agenda.

It is lifting strength which is nowhere near as impressive as eviscerating a body through bone with ease.

If one needs to increase his weight unfairly he is not stronger. That's called cheating as it is outside the rules since one has an unfair advantage.

Lol, my agenda. You're the one making millions of Zelda threads in which you attempt to misrepresent the game based solely on the first five minutes. The rest of the game clearly portrays Link as super durable.

Funny how he hit the boar with an axe and you consider it lifting strength rather than combat strength, but rips out the spine of a human and that's ZOMG COMBAT STRENGTHZs112. lol. Face it Quan, that's a pathetic feat, well below K. Bulbin.

Basic physics. With weight equalized, in a contest of strength, Link wins every time, even against Fyrus.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Hopping to his feat without so much as hesitating or flinching, guy wasn't hurt.

Lol, my agenda. You're the one making millions of Zelda threads in which you attempt to misrepresent the game based solely on the first five minutes. The rest of the game clearly portrays Link as super durable.

Funny how he hit the boar with an axe and you consider it lifting strength rather than combat strength, but rips out the spine of a human and that's ZOMG COMBAT STRENGTHZs112. lol. Face it Quan, that's a pathetic feat, well below K. Bulbin.

Basic physics. With weight equalized, in a contest of strength, Link wins every time, even against Fyrus.

Quit crying about it. I have been making tons of True Blood threads lately not Zelda fans. This is older.

No, he is not since all of his enemies can still hurt him.

No, it isn't. We go by portrayal and combat strength as well. Hulk destroying a planet sized asteroid doesn't mean anything about him punching the Thing. Inconsistent and ridiculous to ignore peer by peer comparisons. That's how things work in fiction, feat lover.

Equalizing weight is cheating. That's an unfair advantage leveling the playing field. That means under his own weight he is not as strong.

😂

Prove he was hurt.

And yet you keep bumping it without any evidence that the outcome decided upon on page 1 is the result. Link draws his sword, being both too fast and too durable for Russell to stop, and Russell explodes.

Show an enemy hurting Link after he has the Master Sword. (Pro-tip, you can't)

King Bulbin's combat strength, hitting things with axes, is above Russell's.

He's stronger, just lighter. Basic physics. They weigh the same, Link wins, who is stronger? Link, obviously.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Prove he was hurt.

And yet you keep bumping it without any evidence that the outcome decided upon on page 1 is the result. Link draws his sword, being both too fast and too durable for Russell to stop, and Russell explodes.

Show an enemy hurting Link after he has the Master Sword. (Pro-tip, you can't)

King Bulbin's combat strength, hitting things with axes, is above Russell's.

He's stronger, just lighter. Basic physics. They weigh the same, Link wins, who is stronger? Link, obviously.

Russell is too fast for him. He can close the distance and kill him quickly.

Prove Link is faster. The guy needed to be saved from arrows from a considerable distance away without being distracted at all.

That does not mean he can of be hurt you fool. Prove he is immune to attacks. You are a fanboy.

King Bulbin can't even put Link out when Zant wrecked him as did his men. Bulbin is pathetic when it comes to combat strength.

Link altering his own weight is cheating. The game makes it clear. You pick and choose because you're biased. Awful.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You made the claim he was not. Burden is on you.

Russell is too fast for him. He can close the distance and kill him quickly.

Prove Link is faster. The guy needed to be saved from arrows from a considerable distance away without being distracted at all.

That does not mean he can of be hurt you fool. Prove he is immune to attacks. You are a fanboy.

King Bulbin can't even put Link out when Zant wrecked him as did his men. Bulbin is pathetic when it comes to combat strength.

Link altering his own weight is cheating. The game makes it clear. You pick and choose because you're biased. Awful.

Prove Russell can move that fast or hurt Link. (You can't)

Link handles Ganondorf just fine.

Link is immune to class 5 axes, therefore he is immune to class 1 hands.

King Bulbin is stronger than Russell, he can't put Link out, do the math.

You didn't answer the question. Two people weigh the same, and try to push each other, who wins?

Except does TP Link have the arrow dodging? And did Ganon show the speed feats IN Twilight Princess?

Oakley Sunglasses

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not using the heart damage as that is clearly the gameplay at work. So we can determine that he can be hurt by every enemy he comes into contact with. That doesn't mean they possess the skill to best him only that he has to defeat them in combat.

You're missing the point. Link easily survives a bomb blast that levels tons of rocks. He's not crippled by it. He's not even hindered that much.

You have no counter to this.

Russell has the strength to slap heads off but he does not always his his maximum strength with every attack. Being stronger than someone does not make one invulnerable to the other characters attacks either especially given how Link is portrayed in the game.

Link is portrayed as taking attacks from guys over 5 times Russell's strength or higher. Again, not hindered by attacks that would kill humans several times over. Russell isn't strong enough to kill Link in a single hit, by the way Link is portrayed. While all Link has to do is draw his sword.

Russell can still be harmed by his opponents. I never claimed no one can harm him. You claim Link's major quest is going up guys who can't hurt him. What a courageous hero.

So does Superman. What is your point with this? It still means Link beats Russell, any other claim is irrelevant.

His skill improves, his overall formidability, and a slight strength increase. That's it. He does not become suddenly invulnerable throughout the game.

Cutscenes show a marked durability increase. Gameplay shows an increased amount of heart containers. Same result.

I would use all showings but again the context can be explained. That's it. Link was a shitty warrior at the beginning of the game but he doesn't transform into some invulnerable stud midway through the game.

Then let's explain the context. Link didn't have the Triforce of Courage then, and he does now. There, done, we've taken everything into account.

Originally posted by The Scenario
You're missing the point. Link easily survives a bomb blast that levels tons of rocks. He's not crippled by it. He's not even hindered that much.

You have no counter to this.

Link is portrayed as taking attacks from guys over 5 times Russell's strength or higher. Again, not hindered by attacks that would kill humans several times over. Russell isn't strong enough to kill Link in a single hit, by the way Link is portrayed. While all Link has to do is draw his sword.

So does Superman. What is your point with this? It still means Link beats Russell, any other claim is irrelevant.

Cutscenes show a marked durability increase. Gameplay shows an increased amount of heart containers. Same result.

Then let's explain the context. Link didn't have the Triforce of Courage then, and he does now. There, done, we've taken everything into account.

That is incorrect. You are incorrect in assuming he is taking hits from stronger people than Russell. Russell also has speed which adds to the velocity of his attacks. Bulbin does not rip through bodies which is far more impressive than lifting something unquantifiable.

Superman is up against villains and many characters who can hurt him. I won't say because he shrugs off a blow from WW that she can't harm him now. Ridiculous.

No, the cutscenes do not. Link's formidability changes. His durability does not.

Since when does the Triforce of Courage amp one's durability ? Back your claim.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I have a cutscene that shows him being unhurt.

Prove Russell can move that fast or hurt Link. (You can't)

Link handles Ganondorf just fine.

Link is immune to class 5 axes, therefore he is immune to class 1 hands.

King Bulbin is stronger than Russell, he can't put Link out, do the math.

You didn't answer the question. Two people weigh the same, and try to push each other, who wins?

Russell is faster than Eric who is a bullet timer and stronger. 😂

Yes, he does since Ganondorf is a shitty villain.

No, he is not since he does not simply take the attacks and not move at all. If he was immune Bulbin could not hurt him. He can.

If two people don't weigh the same allowing them to cheat in order to do so is cheating. Bo makes it clear it is cheating.

You're biased. You ignore shit from the game all the time to promote your agenda.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If it did he would not move at all or be affected. He was affected so as it stands he is not seriously hurt just like I said.

Russell is faster than Eric who is a bullet timer and stronger. 😂

Yes, he does since Ganondorf is a shitty villain.

No, he is not since he does not simply take the attacks and not move at all. If he was immune Bulbin could not hurt him. He can.

If two people don't weigh the same allowing them to cheat in order to do so is cheating. Bo makes it clear it is cheating.

You're biased. You ignore shit from the game all the time to promote your agenda.

Oh hey, he got out of the way of a flight path .2 of an inch thick. Good for him. This in no way helps Russell.

Lol'd.

Bulbin never hurt him.

You're avoiding the question. Not that I blame you, since you're biased, and the answer to this question goes against your agenda. (The agenda which causes you to continually make Zelda threads, you're obsessed.)

The answer is that the stronger one wins when two people of similar weight enter into a shoving match.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see what can hurt both and what both are portrayed as. I run from nothing.

Those guys are on another level but they can still be hurt by their enemies. They are too skilled, too strong, and are not going to sit there.

The skill difference between Kratos and Link is on another level entirely.

By your word the guy who can take a continental attack head on will still take notable harm from human-level damage?

This isn't about skill 😐

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Being moved by the force doesn't mean he was affected. Durability and weight are separate things.

Oh hey, he got out of the way of a flight path .2 of an inch thick. Good for him. This in no way helps Russell.

Lol'd.

Bulbin never hurt him.

You're avoiding the question. Not that I blame you, since you're biased, and the answer to this question goes against your agenda. (The agenda which causes you to continually make Zelda threads, you're obsessed.)

The answer is that the stronger one wins when two people of similar weight enter into a shoving match.

Shows anyone of 1,100 years and above can react to this. Bodes very well for Russell who is over twice that age.

Yes, he did. He just did not fatally wound him.

These are older threads. Concede them.

That is bringing an outside item to equalize their physicality aka cheating. Game makes it clear its cheating. On links own he can't do shit to a Goron.

😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you now admit he was affected since he moved. Gotcha. Completely unaffected means you don't move.

Shows anyone of 1,100 years and above can react to this. Bodes very well for Russell who is over twice that age.

Yes, he did. He just did not fatally wound him.

These are older threads. Concede them.

That is bringing an outside item to equalize their physicality aka cheating. Game makes it clear its cheating. On links own he can't do shit to a Goron.

😂

So people wait a millenium, and they can now move .2 of an inch in a pinch. Not helpful.

Show Bulbin hurting him.

The threads you keep bumping? I'd rather let you tire yourself out at being wrong.

Link matches their weight and exceeds their strength.

Originally posted by BloodRain
You are running though. You're saying that canon damage resistance works for Zant because that is what's proven, but latch onto angles/adrenalin/weaker instances as to why Link's cutscene doesn't count. Then when playing your 'gameplay matters' game, you decide that Link being hurt by a bluejay gameplay even though he can take bombs in gameplay too. Can't have it both ways.

By your word the guy who can take a continental attack head on will still take notable harm from human-level damage?

This isn't about skill 😐

Damage, yes. Hurt in any significant way for the most part no. If Kratos allowed someone they could slit his throat from his game.

In the end it is the same thing but Kratos is stronger and far more skilled than Link but is not immune to his enemies. He becomes that way when he gains size and takes on Ares. The game clearly shows the difference as do all games when the hero becomes too powerful. That's why shortly after they are weakened.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I am not. I am logically looking at the feats and the portrayal. I never said Link's showing does not count. He hit him just didn't kill or defeat him. I accept all the showings.

Damage, yes. Hurt in any significant way for the most part no. If Kratos allowed someone they could slit his throat from his game.

In the end it is the same thing but Kratos is stronger and far more skilled than Link but is not immune to his enemies. He becomes that way when he gains size and takes on Ares. The game clearly shows the difference as do all games when the hero becomes too powerful. That's why shortly after they are weakened.

Excellent, so by this exact logic Link is not hurt in any significant way from gameplay attacks. Meaning tanking Bulbin's strength stands.

Asura disagrees.