Originally posted by Digi
IThor's still the same character. Bloodlusted or not, it doesn't really vault him to an entirely new level.
That Thor was an absolute beast. He was manhandling named heralds that included the likes of Surfer, BRB, Adam Warlock, and Drax the Destroyer. A Drax that Moondragon herself is physically unbeatable because of the "limitless" power he's drawing from the PG. In the fight against Drax, Thor looked no worse for the wear and was seemingly having the upperhand.
Originally posted by Harbinger
I was responding to the "Thor and Hulk......regardless of the incarnation" bit of your post. I thought that you were arguing that guys like KT/RKT couldn't do what Prime did. Evidently, I misunderstood what you posted. My bad.
No, of course they could. But, and I could be wrong, but I can't think of a single Trans. that I think would replicate or better Prime's feats. He was just a buzzsaw that basically nothing was able to stop, including characters like Monarch that some would place in the same "probably Skyfather+" category. Monarch had dozens if not hundreds of heralds as playthings, and Prime rage-punched him into oblivion and just got stronger a result. If Prime's a Trans. character and not beyond that label, he's at the head of the class.
Originally posted by carver9
Prime can beat Thor but Hulk literally solos this sh**. Prime ISN'T on his level. WWH would give him a run for his money. WBH snaps him. The thing that makes this worse is, the battle is contained. WTF.
Sombebody put a muzzle on this guy!!! U betta not turn this thread into crap!!!
Just playing Carvster. You mah boy. But yeah.. Don't turn this into CRAP!!
😠
Originally posted by Digi👆
No, of course they could. But, and I could be wrong, but I can't think of a single Trans. that I think would replicate or better Prime's feats. He was just a buzzsaw that basically nothing was able to stop, including characters like Monarch that some would place in the same "probably Skyfather+" category. Monarch had dozens if not hundreds of heralds as playthings, and Prime rage-punched him into oblivion and just got stronger a result. If Prime's a Trans. character and not beyond that label, he's at the head of the class.
We agree.
I'm not entirely sure if Prime is a skyfather given (relative lack of) powerset in comparison to others in that tier, but I definitely think he's above trans. Prime is weird, trapped in between the two tiers. That's the best way I can describe where he'd be in terms of a tier.
Originally posted by carver9
Majority if the fts you are naming Digi was done by an amped Prime.
The suit he wore? Not sure. But removing it seemed to do pretty much nothing, so meh. Though he didn't really get the suit full-time until the Sinestro Corps War, yeah? I think all the feats I used predate that.
srug
{edit} what harbinger said
Btw carv, I don't have a horse in this race, so to speak, I think both Prime and Hulk are sh*t characters. But I realize we're not going to see eye-to-eye, and it's very hard for me to debate someone with whom I share such fundamental disagreements about characters, so we probably don't need to continue.
Originally posted by Harbinger
👆We agree.
I'm not entirely sure if Prime is a skyfather given (relative lack of) powerset in comparison to others in that tier, but I definitely think he's above trans. Prime is weird, trapped in between the two tiers. That's the best way I can describe where he'd be in terms of a tier.
👆
The fact that he can just punch his way into this sort of discussion makes him a tricky character. Not unlike Hulk in that respect, though of course he has some diversity relative to the green one.
The feats may not support Skyfather, so I'm happy to concede it in a forum battle, but I'm 100% convinced he could've taken Odin during his IC run if it was actually written in a comic. He was basically untouchable during his brief spotlight. And unlike characters who get an "I'm new and unstoppable" run (see: Red Hulk), Prime's never ended, and just got more ridiculous.
Originally posted by Harbinger
Also, pretty sure Prime wasn't amped when he moved planets, sonned hundreds of GLs, retconned punched reality, beat Monarch and tanked the explosion, etc. Only thing I can remember him being amped for was when he beat Mxy. Hell, he killed Earth-2 Supes after being flown through a red sun.
He was still slightly amped when he fought Monarch. The amp was just fading but it was still there. The rest were well within Prime abilities to do. The team Thor worked is FAR more powerful than the GLs Prime killed. The retcon punch is overrated imo but to each his own.
Given that Monarch himself remarks that the Guardian amp is essentially gone, I doubt it was the difference between Prime defeating or losing to Monach, or the difference between him tanking the explosion or dying.
Thor took on a stronger team in you look at them each individually; Warlock/Surfer/Strange are undoubtedly > cannon fodder GLs one by one. However, I'm not convinced that the team Thor rocked would be able to take on scores of GLs in the same way Prime did. Plus, as I said above, Bill--by himself--fared better than the team Thor took out. I wouldn't give BRB anywhere near a majority against Prime.
Originally posted by Harbinger
Given that Monarch himself remarks that the Guardian amp is essentially gone, I doubt it was the difference between Prime defeating or losing to Monach, or the difference between him tanking the explosion or dying.Thor took on a stronger team in you look at them each individually; Warlock/Surfer/Strange are undoubtedly > cannon fodder GLs one by one. However, I'm not convinced that the team Thor rocked would be able to take on scores of GLs in the same way Prime did. Plus, as I said above, Bill--by himself--fared better than the team Thor took out. I wouldn't give BRB anywhere near a majority against Prime.
Your argument can go both ways though. Prime fought and was losing against individuals that are less than the GLs combined. Thor in this state of mind was a beast and I think he has the gem for this fight.
OP simply said bloodlusted/WM Thor, so I didn't assume the power gem. If Thor has it, the dynamics of the battle change in that Thor has to be dropped before he amps beyond Prime's ability to do so. However, given the fight Thanos gave a PG amped Thor, I'd say that Thor wasn't amping himself to such a radical degree that he would be > Prime before he got KOed. JMO, though.
Originally posted by Harbinger
Given that Monarch himself remarks that the Guardian amp is essentially gone, I doubt it was the difference between Prime defeating or losing to Monach, or the difference between him tanking the explosion or dying.Thor took on a stronger team in you look at them each individually; Warlock/Surfer/Strange are undoubtedly > cannon fodder GLs one by one. However, I'm not convinced that the team Thor rocked would be able to take on scores of GLs in the same way Prime did. Plus, as I said above, Bill--by himself--fared better than the team Thor took out. I wouldn't give BRB anywhere near a majority against Prime.
Originally posted by Digi
Where are you getting 10x? I've seen Thor bloodlusted, it's still the same powerset, just unleashed more fully.I'll grant that Hulk's a tough out in this incarnation. But I'm not the only one who thinks he gets worked by Prime.
I also didn't say he was above Skyafther, I said some of his feats are arguably above it. Careful distinction.
Warrior madness Thor does literally signify 10x amp but it seems the thread starter was referencing the blood and thunder version. No matter as regardless of character the result remains the same.
None of the feats you mentioned are above skyfather at all. Giving a general reference to his moving through characters (aka team busting) without giving an idea of the individual context surrounding each fight as well as without taking into account how the characters fought him and how that would differ forumwise....does not cut it. There is also the matter of his less than stellar showings against weaker opposition to consider. His fight against Monarch was Guardian amped and thus inapplicable here ( even then Monarch fought foolishly ). Then, Punching a wall of reality and its result, is rather unquantifiable and certainly cannot be reliably shown to be a >Skyfather level
The other feats you mentioned such as moving and destroying planets for instance, are not above skyfather or even close really. You havent even provided a strength feat that can be quantifiably placed above Hulks portion of the HOTM feat, and Hulk has assistance from a much more powerfully portrayed Thor here.
Prime key to victory would most definitley be the extent to which he utilizes his speed (which imo, in character would not be to the extent which he becomes entirely unhittable). A heavily physical confrontation against these two toe to toe, (ala his fight against Ion) is unfavorable to even him