The Avengers Vs the Fantastic four Vs Xmen

Originally posted by Newjak
It's mere presence was causing interference to top Shield equipment.

It deflected the destroyer beam effortlessly it being a laser beam.

Of course this is where you tell me that her running through a few walls means nothing can harm her right?

No limits fallacy.

And that compares to being intangible how?

And that compares to being intangible how?

Nope, she could be harmed by something that can interact with intangible objects. Does someone on either team have this?

Nope again.

I still think Kitty can harm them more if used her phasing powers more viciously.

Originally posted by Robtard
And that compares to being intangible how?

And that compares to being intangible how?

Nope, she could be harmed by something that can interact with intangible objects. Does someone on either team have this?

Nope again.

So it is just as liable to work on her as her being completely immune to it.

The rest of what you imply is continual no limits fallacy.

It could work it might not but I would be willing to bet money on Thor's hammer being able to hurt with magic then her tanking it.

Originally posted by mastagambit
I still think Kitty can harm them more if used her phasing powers more viciously.

She phased Cain into concrete, what else could she do that is more vicious or have any better chance of working against Hulk or Thor?

Originally posted by Newjak
The point being it is a magically enchanted hammer, something Kitty has no feats against.

So it is just as liable to work on her as her being completely immune to it.

The rest of what you imply is continual no limits fallacy.

It could work it might not but I would be willing to bet money on Thor's hammer being able to hurt with magic then her tanking it.

Or intangible mutant, is something Thor/Mjolnir has no feats against.

Until then, I'm going with what's shown, objects in our time/space simply pass through her.

Nope.

Originally posted by Robtard
Or intangible mutant, is something Thor/Mjolnir has no feats against.

Until then, I'm going with what's shown, objects in our time/space simply pass through her.

Nope.

You also don't even know how she becomes intangible so you have no credible reason to believe a magical hammer will pass right through her.

Originally posted by Newjak
What else could she do.

She phased Cain into concrete, what else could she do that is more vicious or have any better chance of working against Hulk or Thor?

It makes no sense arguing what she could do,or could not.
If this was the comic version then I would say she could do the 'impalement' or even 'objects'.
She has phased objects before into people.
Since she did none of those in the movie,I have to go by what she did which was run around through multiple people,phase them in the ground,etc.
Oh and for people wondering if she can phase through metal,etc.
Well she phased through Wolverine in the first film when Logan came to the mansion and Charles was showing her around.
That was her that ran right through his adamantium skeleton and all.

Originally posted by mastagambit
It makes no sense arguing what she could do,or could not.
If this was the comic version then I would say she could do the 'impalement' or even 'objects'.
She has phased objects before into people.
Since she did none of those in the movie,I have to go by what she did which was run around through multiple people,phase them in the ground,etc.
Oh and for people wondering if she can phase through metal,etc.
Well she phased through Wolverine in the first film when Logan came to the mansion and Charles was showing her around.
That was her that ran right through his adamantium skeleton and all.

My point was she phased Juggernaut into hte ground and he didn't end up with pounds of concrete in his body or blood stream. So his body obviously displayed cause it was tougher than the concrete. Kitty can not phase anything harder than Hulk or Thor into them.

Originally posted by Newjak
Comic Thor would clear the field including a phased Kitty no arguments at all. 😐

My point was she phased Juggernaut into hte ground and he didn't end up with pounds of concrete in his body or blood stream. So his body obviously displayed cause it was tougher than the concrete. Kitty can not phase anything harder than Hulk or Thor into them.

Yes I agree with you there on Juggy.
But I ask again this,what if she phased him all the way? His head
and all? So he can't breath?
And we are still at a standstill by saying there is nothing movie Thor can do to her.But she can to him.

Originally posted by Newjak
Once again her best feats are running through stone and concrete. Thor's hammer can effect things like radio waves electronics just fine.

You also don't even know how she becomes intangible so you have no credible reason to believe a magical hammer will pass right through her.

My cell phone can effect things like radio waves and other electronics.

That's a no limit fallacy to Thor's hammer. ie "it can do anything", despite not being shown it can affect phase objects.

It's best to go with what is shown until we're shown something different, she's intangible and objects pass right through her.

Originally posted by mastagambit
Yes I agree with you there on Juggy.
But I ask again this,what if she phased him all the way? His head
and all? So he can't breath?
And we are still at a standstill by saying there is nothing movie Thor can do to her.But she can to him.

And you guys are saying there is nothing Thor can do to her. I say there is a chance that Thor's hammer can effect her.

Originally posted by Robtard
My cell phone can effect things like radio waves and other electronics.

That's a no limit fallacy to Thor's hammer. ie "it can do anything", despite not being shown it can affect phase objects.

It's best to go with what is shown until we're shown something different, she's intangible and objects pass right through her.

A) You don't know how Kitty phases through things or B) what her limits are but we do know her feats which are severely lacking. What you guys are saying would be the equivalent of saying Prof X can contact someone telepathically in the next solar system using Cerebro because he never showed a limit when using it. It's possible but he doesn't have the feats to support it nor would I think many people try and support it.

Running through some stone, metal, and a few people does not make someone invincible to all forms of attacks. There is a chance Thor's hammer could not work, but there is a chance that can seeing as it is a magically enchanted hammer that can do a lot. Something she never went against, and considering Thor's hammer is way more powerful than anything Kitty has gone up against I'd side with the hammer working.

One thing we do know for certain is based on her performance against the Juggernaut she doesn't have the juice to take out a high caliber opponent.

We know based on her attack that when she phases something into something else the more durable object wins out. Thor is more durable than Kitty by a large margin. If she tries to phase into him and make her body solid inside of him she will lose an arm.

Assuming she can even get to Thor cause if Thor just flies around the battle field frying people with lightning and summoning massive Tornadoes no one on either team is beating him especially the ground based Shadowcat.

Originally posted by marwash22
hand through the face.

We don't even know she can do it.

It's not in character.

😬

Originally posted by Newjak

My point was that it can effect things normal people can not interact with and that

A) You don't know how Kitty phases through things or B) what her limits are but we do know her feats which are severely lacking. What you guys are saying would be the equivalent of saying Prof X can contact someone telepathically in the next solar system using Cerebro because he never showed a limit when using it. It's possible but he doesn't have the feats to support it nor would I think many people try and support it.

Running through some stone, metal, and a few people does not make someone invincible to all forms of attacks. There is a chance Thor's hammer could not work, but there is a chance that can seeing as it is a magically enchanted hammer that can do a lot. Something she never went against, and considering Thor's hammer is way more powerful than anything Kitty has gone up against I'd side with the hammer working.

One thing we do know for certain is based on her performance against the Juggernaut she doesn't have the juice to take out a high caliber opponent.

We know based on her attack that when she phases something into something else the more durable object wins out. Thor is more durable than Kitty by a large margin. If she tries to phase into him and make her body solid inside of him she will lose an arm.

Assuming she can even get to Thor cause if Thor just flies around the battle field frying people with lightning and summoning massive Tornadoes no one on either team is beating him especially the ground based Shadowcat.

My point is that Kitty is not like a radio wave. Radio waves can be be blocked by solid objects, Kitty can't. So your comparison that Mjolnir can affect Kitty cos Mjolnir caused some interference to electronics is faulty.

Repeat: It's best to go with what's shown and what's shown tells us that Mjolnir (a solid object) will simply pass right through her when she'd phased.

If you want to argue that she can't harm Thor with her phasing powers, that's a more sensible point of argument. IMO, she takes Thor down several feat into the Earth; he's ****ed.

Originally posted by Robtard
My point is that Kitty is not like a radio wave. Radio waves can be be blocked by solid objects, Kitty can't. So your comparison that Mjolnir can affect Kitty cos Mjolnir caused some interference to electronics is faulty.

Repeat: It's best to go with what's shown and what's shown tells us that Mjolnir (a solid object) will simply pass right through her when she'd phased.

If you want to argue that she can't harm Thor with her phasing powers, that's a more sensible point of argument. IMO, she takes Thor down several feat into the Earth; he's ****ed.

Thor being several feat into the Earth won't stop him. He is more than strong enough to break out of that so once again Kitty has no solid way of beating Thor IF she can even touch him 😬

Originally posted by Newjak
Getting away from the back and forth of your no limits fallacy.

Thor being several feat into the Earth won't stop him. He is more than strong enough to break out of that so once again Kitty has no solid way of beating Thor IF she can even touch him 😬

LoL, hypocrisy much? I'm claiming Kitty could phase right through Mjolnir cos she's seen phasing through solid objects, which Mjolnir definitely is by all accounts. A solid object; I'm going with bankable movie feats. Your argument is essentially "Mjolnir is magical* so it's just going to react with phased objects", despite nothing of the kind being shown in Thor or Avengers. That's more akin to a No Limit Fallacy, if not outright being one.

Or you know, he'd die of suffocation, before he broke his way out as every second without oxygen he'd be getting weaker and weaker. There's also the fact that unlike the Juggernaut, he's not invulnerable, he just has a ridiculously high level of durability, so being phased into solid matter could potentially outright kill him.

Why couldn't see touch him? Thor's shown a willingness to engage opponents head more so than flying around and attacking that way.

*on a side note, it's not even sure if Mjolnir is actually magical in the Marvel Film universe or if Asgardian technology/science is so far advanced to humans it appears to be magical. Clarke's 3rd Law.

Originally posted by Mindset
She's never done it.

We don't even know she can do it.

It's not in character.

😬

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, hypocrisy much? I'm claiming Kitty could phase right through Mjolnir cos she's seen phasing through solid objects, which Mjolnir definitely is by all accounts. A solid object. Your argument is essentially "Mjolnir is magical so it's just going to react with phased objects", despite nothing of the kind being shown in Thor or Avenger. That's more akin to a No Limit Fallacy, if not outright being one.

Or you know, he'd die of suffocation, before he broke his way out as every second without oxygen he'd be getting weaker and weaker. There's also the fact that unlike the Juggernaut, he's not invulnerable, he just has a ridiculously high level of durability, so being phased into solid matter could potentially outright kill him.

Why couldn't see touch him? He's shown a willingness to engage opponents head more so than flying around and attacking that way.

There are items here her powers have never been tested against. His hammer's mere presence causes human tech to falter. It can summon storms, and is obviously magically enchanted considering no one but Thor can pick it up. Cap's Shield is made out of material that can absorb all kinetic energy.

Also Juggernaut wasn't totally invulnerable... like Kitty his main feats consist of tanking some low level attacks and running through some walls and people. Thor has much better feats.

So that makes two no limit fallacies you've tried to pull here. One stating Kitty is immune to any form of attack as long as she is phased and Cain being invulnerable.

As for the rest,

Thor shot Ironman with lightning before he engaged him physically. Very early on went to the air with the tornado against the destroyer, and fried the Chitauri when he flew in to save Cap/BW/HE after he fought Loki. That's 3 examples of Thor not instantly going for close range attacks. He also flew through the giant monster so he doesn't always engage in H2H combat. In fact I would say in Thor's total amount of fights the amount of times he has gone straight to H2H is probably less or equal to half of them.

Thor would not suffocate being 7 feet buried, what do you think it's going to take him an hour to dig out. He'll blast out no problem IF she can phase him that deep into the ground to begin with.

Originally posted by marwash22
i'll put my dick through YOUR face. sneer

Reported.

Originally posted by Newjak
I've already said Thor's hammer could work or it might not, so I didn't no limits fallacy it as I know it has limits but it is still an incredibly powerful, versatile, and magical weapon. I'm also not willing going to assign Kitty with total untouchability because she can go through stone, people, and metal though.

There are items here her powers have never been tested against. His hammer's mere presence causes human tech to falter. It can summon storms, and is obviously magically enchanted considering no one but Thor can pick it up. Cap's Shield is made out of material that can absorb all kinetic energy.

Also Juggernaut wasn't totally invulnerable... like Kitty his main feats consist of tanking some low level attacks and running through some walls and people. Thor has much better feats.

So that makes two no limit fallacies you've tried to pull here. One stating Kitty is immune to any form of attack as long as she is phased and Cain being invulnerable.

As for the rest,

Thor shot Ironman with lightning before he engaged him physically. Very early on went to the air with the tornado against the destroyer, and fried the Chitauri when he flew in to save Cap/BW/HE after he fought Loki. That's 3 examples of Thor not instantly going for close range attacks. He also flew through the giant monster so he doesn't always engage in H2H combat. In fact I would say in Thor's total amount of fights the amount of times he has gone straight to H2H is probably less or equal to half of them.

Thor would not suffocate being 7 feet buried, what do you think it's going to take him an hour to dig out. He'll blast out no problem IF she can phase him that deep into the ground to begin with.

Yet you also are, by saying that despite her showing the ability to completely phase through solid objects, it's still a no go to solid objects like Mjolnir which has zero feats affecting phased objects. I'm arguing from a completely physical aspect. Xavier likely could mess her up. Dark Phoenix too considering she turned a solid object into pure energy. Better arguments could be made there.

We covered that already. My cell phone could cause interference to electrical devices. Mjolnir's not "obviously" magical in the films, see Clarke's 3rd law. Even Thor has said "science and magic are the same" in Asgard. So it's inconclusive, could be magic or it could be highly advanced tech or both. What does Cap's shield have to do with anything? Are yo claiming Kitty couldn't phase through that as well?

Except we literally see Juggernaut be invulnerable. But let's not go with what's seen, guesses are better.

Incorrect, going with what's shown instead of "we don't know" (which is often used in these debates when people can't argue a way for their favorite to win) is not a No Limit Fallacy. Feats in here count for a reason, they count more than wild guesses, eg 'Mjolnir affects electronics, ergo it can affect phased mutants.'

You've also just used a Strawman. I never said "Kitty is immune to any form of attack as long as she is phased". I argued she's immune to physical attacks while phased, as shown.

Pretty sure Thor opened up by throwing Mjolnir and knocking Iron Man on his back. But that's three (maybe 2) examples of Thor opening with lightning compared to the more where he opened up with using Mjolnir as a blunt object. Dude mostly fights like a brick. What's your point though? He's going to blast a phased Kitty with lightning and it's just going to hurt her cos?

-Battle on Jotunheim he opened with a swing
-Battle with Loki in Odin's chamber another smash (iirc)
-Battle with the Destroyer, pretty sure he opens by throwing Mjolnier and then flies off
-Battle with Hulk, completely bricks it
-Battle with Loki in Stark Tower, bricks it
-Fighting Chitauri with Captain, bricks it

Dude's a brick.

How do you know he can survive being phased into a solid object in the first place? That's akin to affecting him on the molecular level. Entertaining that he could, how exactly does he "blast out"?

Originally posted by Robtard

Except we literally see Juggernaut be invulnerable.

but wasn't his actual mutant power to be invulnerable as long as he has momentum? Once he was left phased into the floor wouldn't he have lost his momentum?