Rank then in reflex speed

Spiderman is faster than any Herald. Get over it.

Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman is faster than any Herald. Get over it.

He's not.
He can react before any Herald but he is slower in movement speed than some of them. Reacting first has nothing to do with movement speed.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, what I'm saying is that even if he had that headstart, it doesn't make his reflexes faster.

Reacting before another means you have faster reaction times than they. For example, Let's say I had faster than light speed reflexes but keep my same human speed. I would be able to see light travel in super slow motion and can BEGIN to dodge a laser beam leaving within 1mm of its source. But because of my limited speed I will always still get hit.

Now Superman may first pick up on the laser beam 1 foot from its source (later than me) but still have the necessary speed to move out of the way (if he chooses).

So since Superman was able to dodge and I wasn't doesn't mean he has faster reflexes than me. I reacted first (1mm vs. 1ft) but failed to get out of the way (my movement speed is limited). All it proves is that Superman is faster than me and not that he can react before me.

Spidey would react and BEGIN to move before Superman but he can still get hit because of his limited speed.

Exactly. Say that you're standing next to a nuke and you know it's going to explode in 5 seconds, you can start running before it explodes but once it does you're dead.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Exactly. Say that you're standing next to a nuke and you know it's going to explode in 5 seconds, you can start running before it explodes but once it does you're dead.

👆

Originally posted by SamZED
Like walking passed a criminal who is just minding his own buiseness and not planning to hurt anyone in the nearest future let alone attack Spider-man? Yet ss goes off. Or warns him NOT to take his mask off because somebody is watching from far away. Since when is that an immidiate danger? Or any kind of danger for that matterat. Its not like spider sense is worried about Pete's secret id. Or worried about a potential threat to his relatives if its exposed. Or how about warning him that somebody ELSE is in danger few blocks away. Heck I remember an instance when a warning from spider sense made Pete attacked a group of criminals who were only PLANNING to rob a store. It ended with them threatening to sue him because they werent doing anything illegal, still they were surprised that he knew that they we plotting something. Im not pulling those example out of my @$$, it was even confirmed on pannel that his ss sometimes warns him of potential future threats. Fact is spider sense is a complicated magical plot device that does not work that simple.

Ah gotcha. My bad.

Heh, you're right.. The SS does vary from writer to writer.

The secret id example is interesting. A guy just staring at him, and the SS goes off...?

One common thread in your other examples, is that they're criminals or potential criminals.. If it could do that on criminals that aren't even doing anything wrong at the time, it should buzz like crazy whenever he passes Wolverine, considering all the times they've fought, but doesn't because he's one of the white hats. 😉

Originally posted by cdtm
Heh, you're right.. The SS does vary from writer to writer.

The secret id example is interesting. A guy just staring at him, and the SS goes off...?

One common thread in your other examples, is that they're criminals or potential criminals.. If it could do that on criminals that aren't even doing anything wrong at the time, it should buzz like crazy whenever he passes Wolverine, considering all the times they've fought, but doesn't because he's one of the white hats. 😉

One thing about SS always interested me - Peter's goal is to save people, so his spider sense warns him when someone is in danger. It only works that way for him because he's always out to help someone. Same about protecting his secret ID... But what if somebody else got this power? Would it still work the same way? I seriously doubt that if someone like Norman Osborn had spider sense it would've warned him that someone needs help simply because Norman wouldnt give a crap. So basically spider sense tells you whatever the hell you need to know. If Punisher had it ss would've probably lead him to criminals hideouts or something like that. I always wanted some writer to eleborate on that. The closest we got was in "What if Spider-man vs Wolverine". Spider-man learnt to control his ss better. As a result it worked like a lowlevel cosmic awareness. Gave him info and allowed to see the future.

Originally posted by SamZED
Yes its from a really reeaally old book. Pete was about to change into his civvies on a rooftop iirc, someone was watching and his ss went off warning him not to take off the mask. Now that you mentioned it I think that also was some kind of criminal. Its like he has a built in alarm system in his head.😄

Something similar happened in the animated series, I believe. Can't remember who was following Spidey then.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Something similar happened in the animated series, I believe. Can't remember who was following Spidey then.

Originally posted by h1a8
So you saying that he wouldn't ever move before the fire when there is said feats showing him move before the incident occurred?

So you are saying that Spidey has dodged surprised laser attacks only after the laser fired because he was so fast that he was able to clear his entire body out of the way?

SS just doesn't go off intentions. It can and has went off future sense. There are many examples of Spidey avoiding accidental danger before it even occurred.

You shouldn't debate in threads about characters you know nothing about. Spidey's SS has warned him in far excess (in seconds) before incidents are even initialized.
Again, it has warned him at the same time too. But we are talking about Spidey at his best here. There is no way for him to completely clear a laser beam if he didn't clear his entire body before the laser even shot out.

Again reflexes has nothing to do with getting hit. It has something to do with the time it takes to first react. Spidey will react BEFORE the event but that doesn't mean he will be fast enough to finish his dodging motion. But make no mistake, he will have begun to dodge BEFORE the attack is launched, no matter how fast it is. Him getting hit was simply a result of his limited speed, not reflexes

You should try using your brain for more than just soaking up saliva.

Spider-man's spider-sense warns him of impending attacks. If some has decided they are going to punch Spider-man his spider-sense will warn him. At that point he has the time from when his attacker's brain sends the single to his limbs to attack, and when his attackers body actually begins to execute the attack, to avoid the in coming assault... which is easy since Spider-man has super speed. The same principle applies to dodging lasers. Parker's spider-sense goes off and he out reacts the mechanisms that fire that laser - which are MUCH slower than light speed - and not the actually laser itself. Neither of those things apply to Superman. If Superman decides to hit Spider-man... he'll have already hit Parker before his spider-sense has finished processing that there is a threat. Superman's mind works as fast as his body does. There is no latency between him becoming a threat to Spider-man, and him actually attack Spider-man, that Parker can step into an exploit. The difference in speed is astronomical, and -again- Superman's brain works as fast as his body.

I know this isn't canon, but still, I think it illustrates the point well.

Superman is a) attacking, and b) subvocally processing its potential effect. Spider-Man...helpless. Why didn't his spider-sense go off? Granted, ss is a plot device some writers ignore, but in this instance, one could also say -- given his vastly superior motor speed -- that Superman's attack (plus his thinking about it) happened so quickly, even spider-sense couldn't help Pete out.

TBH, I think the convenient omission of spider-sense by the writer is the more likely culprit here. Regardless, this whole discussion had this fight scene stuck in my mind, so I post it as a general illustration of the immense difference in power -- and speed -- between these two characters.

Originally posted by SamZED
Hey that's right! That's how Green Goblin learnt his secret ID in the show. Pete took off his mask in an alley. SS warned him but Osborn was using some kind if teleporter to mess with him.

Yep, it was GG 👆 I think he was using Spot's technlogoy... or at least it looked the same.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You should try using your brain for more than just soaking up saliva.

Spider-man's spider-sense warns him of impending attacks. If some has decided they are going to punch Spider-man his spider-sense will warn him. At that point he has the time from when his attacker's brain sends the single to his limbs to attack, and when his attackers body actually begins to execute the attack, to avoid the in coming assault... which is easy since Spider-man has super speed. The same principle applies to dodging lasers. Parker's spider-sense goes off and he out reacts the mechanisms that fire that laser - which are MUCH slower than light speed - and not the actually laser itself. Neither of those things apply to Superman. If Superman decides to hit Spider-man... he'll have already hit Parker before his spider-sense has finished processing that there is a threat. Superman's mind works as fast as his body does. There is no latency between him becoming a threat to Spider-man, and him actually attack Spider-man, that Parker can step into an exploit. The difference in speed is astronomical, and -again- Superman's brain works as fast as his body.

Superman would react to an attack AFTER it happens. Spidey will react before it happens. Superman manages to dodge and Spidey doesn't. Superman is faster in movement speed although Spidey acted first.

Note: If Spidey moves a nanometer in response to an attack it still means he reacted first. Speed of movement is irrelevant.

Your fallacy is thinking that Spidey Sense goes off only when a character decides to attack (intentions) when it as been proven that his SS can go off before the intentions are there.

At best the SS gives a few second warning of the future. Intentions are irrelevant in some showings.

Originally posted by Mindship
I know this isn't canon, but still, I think it illustrates the point well.

Superman is a) attacking, and b) subvocally processing its potential effect. Spider-Man...helpless. Why didn't his spider-sense go off? Granted, ss is a plot device some writers ignore, but in this instance, one could also say -- given his vastly superior motor speed -- that Superman's attack (plus his thinking about it) happened so quickly, even spider-sense couldn't help Pete out.

TBH, I think the convenient omission of spider-sense by the writer is the more likely culprit here. Regardless, this whole discussion had this fight scene stuck in my mind, so I post it as a general illustration of the immense difference in power -- and speed -- between these two characters.

Not a good story to use...Spiderman was blitzing the hell out of Supes before that punch. No one is saying Spiderman is untouchable.

Originally posted by carver9
Not a good story to use...Spiderman was blitzing the hell out of Supes before that punch.

Red solar energy was sapping his powers.

Originally posted by cdtm
Red solar energy was sapping his powers.

It really wasn't. Lex was shooting Spiderman with red solar energy so that he will be able to damage Superman...Superman wasnt getting shot with it. Thats why Superman was shocked that Spiderman was able to hurt him. Not because he was weakened, he just knew Spiderman wasn't strong enough to damage.

Editors Lee and Infantino had to come up with some way to partially level the playing field. As I said, I know it isn't canon, and I don't offer it as 'proof'. I just thought it highlighted well the current discussion.

Originally posted by carver9
It really wasn't. Lex was shooting Spiderman with red solar energy so that he will be able to damage Superman...Superman wasnt getting shot with it. Thats why Superman was shocked that Spiderman was able to hurt him. Not because he was weakened, he just knew Spiderman wasn't strong enough to damage.

Originally posted by Mindship
Editors Lee and Infantino had to come up with some way to partially level the playing field. As I said, I know it isn't canon, and I don't offer it as 'proof'. I just thought it highlighted well the current discussion.
The impression I got was that Spider-Man's body, having been "charged" with red-sun radiation, sorta/partially nullified Superman's invulnerability at point of contact (eg, fist/chin). Certainly, once it "wore off," the difference between a spider-man and a superman was even more dramatic.

Yeah, that exactly what happened. It allowed Spiderman to damage him.

Originally posted by Mindship
I know this isn't canon, but still, I think it illustrates the point well.

Superman is a) attacking, and b) subvocally processing its potential effect. Spider-Man...helpless. Why didn't his spider-sense go off? Granted, ss is a plot device some writers ignore, but in this instance, one could also say -- given his vastly superior motor speed -- that Superman's attack (plus his thinking about it) happened so quickly, even spider-sense couldn't help Pete out.

TBH, I think the convenient omission of spider-sense by the writer is the more likely culprit here. Regardless, this whole discussion had this fight scene stuck in my mind, so I post it as a general illustration of the immense difference in power -- and speed -- between these two characters.

Originally posted by Mindship
This reminds me of a question I may've once posed on the forum regarding agility. A big part of agility is speed. Superman is faster than Spider-Man. Is he therefore, ultimately, more agile, but we don't see that because Superman doesn't have to dodge; he can, as you say, take the hit?

On the other hand, sometimes Superman does get clocked by someone with sufficient power. Yet he still doesn't dodge. Is this because he really isn't as agile as Spider-Man -- keeping in mind that speed is not the only factor in agility?

Things get tricky when characters respond a certain way because that's how they're "supposed" to respond.

Yeah, it's a tricky question.

Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman is faster than any Herald. Get over it.

Shut your hole.

Originally posted by h1a8
He's not.
He can react before any Herald but he is slower in movement speed than some of them. Reacting first has nothing to do with movement speed.

Reacting before another means you have faster reaction times than they. For example, Let's say I had faster than light speed reflexes but keep my same human speed. I would be able to see light travel in super slow motion and can BEGIN to dodge a laser beam leaving within 1mm of its source. But because of my limited speed I will always still get hit.

Now Superman may first pick up on the laser beam 1 foot from its source (later than me) but still have the necessary speed to move out of the way (if he chooses).

So since Superman was able to dodge and I wasn't doesn't mean he has faster reflexes than me. I reacted first (1mm vs. 1ft) but failed to get out of the way (my movement speed is limited). All it proves is that Superman is faster than me and not that he can react before me.

Spidey would react and BEGIN to move before Superman but he can still get hit because of his limited speed.

That's some horribly broken logic.

Superman can do something about it, IE he has faster reflexes. reflexes are the ability to perceive AND respond, not the ability to perceive alone.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Superman can do something about it, IE he has faster reflexes. reflexes are the ability to perceive AND respond, not the ability to perceive alone.

If that's true then Superman has faster reflexes than Spidey most of the time and Spidey has faster reflexes than Superman ONLY when his SS gives him 1 second or more to respond before the event takes place. The SS fluctuates depending on the level of danger and writer. Lasers and bullets can kill Spidey as to why I think he dodges them better and say punches that won't kill him.