Gods vs Galactus

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Buit what feats did they have that even to 616 Celestials, I doubt this version to take on this many gods with all the amps the Odin wearing the destoryer armour and the odinsword has a good chance of whooping on well fed galactus then add all the other and i can't see big G winning a majority

They withstood alternate universe IG's that was shown on panel to be universal in their scope, they withstood Alternate UN's which also have been shown to be universal in their scope, in short the Celestials from 4280 withstood, repelled and killed a bunch of Reeds armed with universal classed weapons, add in the fact that three Celestials was stated to have the power to kill Adult Franklin Richards a universal reality warper. I'm sure they have more feats that I'm unaware of. However those feats imo puts them at the level of their 616 counterparts. And the version of Galactus they fought killed one of these and would most likely, had they not merged, defeated the rest.

Galactus was able to re assemble himself after been blown to bits by 5 cosmic cubes= this team isn't putting down a 4 planet fed Big G

Originally posted by Utrigita
They withstood alternate universe IG's that was shown on panel to be universal in their scope, they withstood Alternate UN's which also have been shown to be universal in their scope, in short the Celestials from 4280 withstood, repelled and killed a bunch of Reeds armed with universal classed weapons, add in the fact that three Celestials was stated to have the power to kill Adult Franklin Richards a universal reality warper. I'm sure they have more feats that I'm unaware of. However those feats imo puts them at the level of their 616 counterparts. And the version of Galactus they fought killed one of these and would most likely, had they not merged, defeated the rest.

For the record, it was never explicitly stated that the combined might of the three Celestials had the power to "kill" Adult Franklin. (And we also recently learned -- thanks to Hickman -- that AF did not die after he bull-rushed the final Mad Celestial) Nathaniel only said that AF could not "beat" them alone. We still don't know for sure if Galactus himself was killed or left in a comatose state at their hands when he first encountered them. We do, however, know that both Adult Franklin and Galactus were able to defeat 2 Celestials individually, which is an impressive feat in itself. The rest of your statement I agree with.

Originally posted by Utrigita
They withstood alternate universe IG's that was shown on panel to be universal in their scope, they withstood Alternate UN's which also have been shown to be universal in their scope, in short the Celestials from 4280 withstood, repelled and killed a bunch of Reeds armed with universal classed weapons, add in the fact that three Celestials was stated to have the power to kill Adult Franklin Richards a universal reality warper. I'm sure they have more feats that I'm unaware of. However those feats imo puts them at the level of their 616 counterparts. And the version of Galactus they fought killed one of these and would most likely, had they not merged, defeated the rest.

tiamat scared the pants off Galactus when he awaken he was shown to take on multiple celestials on his own.

And they didn't with stand the IG the one that got blasted was taken out, and then killed the one reed who was letting him use the IG, And if i remember correctly the reed using th UN it didn't work which based on that fact that version of the UN was <<<< then the 616 version.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
You keep on saying their 616 counter parts but which 616 celestial??

tiamat scared the pants off Galactus when he awaken he was shown to take on multiple celestials on his own.

And they didn't with stand the IG the one that got blasted was taken out, and then killed the one reed who was letting him use the IG, And if i remember correctly the reed using th UN it didn't work which based on that fact that version of the UN was <<<< then the 616 version.

The IGs and UNs were represented in such a fashion that they were all shown to be equal in terms of their power . That is what Hickman intended with their portrayal . I don't like what Hickman ended up doing in that arc(importing that scene of Darkseid's IG being non-functional from the DC crossover), but it is what it is .

The same Tiamut who got taken over by Mr Sinister and couldn't even fight off his possession(unlike Ghaur) ?

Going by feats , the Mad Celestials are even more powerful than the 616 Celestials(barring Scathan) . Going by writer statements , they are equals to their 616 counterparts . You don't have to like it , but again , it is what it is .

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Why you believe Celestials >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Galactus ???

In Cancerverse battle, Galactus withstand in the fronline when Celestials run away.

The Mad Celestials won against Kid FR and Nathaniel said they killed adult FR Richards in many timelines. Adult FR used his power + FR kid power to defeat the mad celestials.

To me is safe to say 4 mad celestials > Adult FR.

Kid Frankie's power was used only for recharging Galactus .

Originally posted by Doon
For the record, it was never explicitly stated that the combined might of the three Celestials had the power to "kill" Adult Franklin. (And we also recently learned -- thanks to Hickman -- that AF did not die after he bull-rushed the final Mad Celestial) Nathaniel only said that AF could not "beat" them alone. We still don't know for sure if Galactus himself was killed or left in a comatose state at their hands when he first encountered them. We do, however, know that both Adult Franklin and Galactus were able to defeat 2 Celestials individually, which is an impressive feat in itself. The rest of your statement I agree with.

Nathaniel : "Just Franklin by himself against all the 3 remaining Celestials ?"

Sue : "Yes . Can he ?"

Nathaniel : "No ."

I think it is pretty clear from this dialogue that Franklin(who had already expended some of his power in holding up that collapse of multiple timelines) would have lost to the MCs had he proceeded to engage them solo .

Had he conserved all his power prior to this engagement , he might have been able to take them on on his own(like the 4 planet-amped Galactus did) , however that belongs to the realm of speculation .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Those Celestials survived shots from from alternate UNs on more than two occasions . The second time 4280-Eson tanked a point blank hit from the UN before the Reed holding it lost focus .

The IGs and UNs were represented in such a fashion that they were all shown to be equal in terms of their power . That is what Hickman intended with their portrayal . I don't like what Hickman ended up doing in that arc(importing that scene of Darkseid's IG being non-functional from the DC crossover), but it is what it is .

The same Tiamut who got taken over by Mr Sinister and couldn't even fight off his possession(unlike Ghaur) ?

Going by feats , the Mad Celestials are even more powerful than the 616 Celestials(barring Scathan) . Going by writer statements , they are equals to their 616 counterparts . You don't have to like it , but again , it is what it is .

Yup, I don't get why people want to keep downplaying this Galactus showing versus the Celestials. Check that, I do know but it's not cool. 😠

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Sue : "Can he win?"

Nathaniel : "Just Franklin by himself against all the 3 remaining Celestials ?"

Sue : "Yes . Can he ?"

Nathaniel : "No ."

I think it is pretty clear from this dialogue that Franklin(who had already expended some of his power in holding up that collapse of multiple timelines) would have lost to the MCs had he proceeded to engage them solo .

Had he conserved all his power prior to this engagement , he might have been able to take them on on his own(like the 4 planet-amped Galactus did) , however that belongs to the realm of speculation .

That's a really good point about AF expending some of his power prior to encountering the Mad Celestials, something I considered myself. The fact that they used words like "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival certainly goes well with your theory. While on the subject of speculation, it would also have been interesting to see how Galactus would have fared against the Mad Celestials individually had they not combined. I know that's been discussed already, but we honestly don't know for sure if the outcome would have been a whole lot different not to mention by how much.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It was Reed whom they killed . Adult FR's battle was the one variable that never happened in any of those alternate iterations of that particular event(Reed's death at the hands of the MCs) . Galactus coming , the Sol's Anvil being fired were constants though .

Kid Frankie's power was used only for recharging Galactus .

Exactly. Although Nathaniel certainly knew and experienced quite a lot, Adult Franklin and Adult Valeria had their own little plan, which they kept a secret from their grandfather. "Every boy deserves a father" followed by a swift kick to the face. Sorry grandpa. We're trying something different this time.

By the way, have you seen the new preview inks for Bagley's run on Fantastic Four? Looks like Fraction will be exploring young Franklin's precognitive dreams again. Hmm. Not sure what to make of that, but the art looks decent.

Link here: http://marvel.com/news/story/19445/first_look_fantastic_four_1

Originally posted by Doon
That's a really good point about AF expending some of his power prior to encountering the Mad Celestials, something I considered myself. The fact that they used words like "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival certainly goes well with your theory. While on the subject of speculation, it would also have been interesting to see how Galactus would have fared against the Mad Celestials individually had they not combined. I know that's been discussed already, but we honestly don't know for sure if the outcome would have been a whole lot different not to mention by how much.

Honestly speaking in that state he would have eventually beaten them all , had the remaining MCs not snatched up on the opportunity to use the dead MC's body to merge into their Voltron-like state .

Originally posted by Doon
Exactly. Although Nathaniel certainly knew and experienced quite a lot, Adult Franklin and Adult Valeria had their own little plan, which they kept a secret from their grandfather. "Every boy deserves a father" followed by a swift kick to the face. Sorry grandpa. We're trying something different this time.

By the way, have you seen the new preview inks for Bagley's run on Fantastic Four? Looks like Fraction will be exploring young Franklin's precognitive dreams again. Hmm. Not sure what to make of that, but the art looks decent.

Link here: http://marvel.com/news/story/19445/first_look_fantastic_four_1

But still , from the looks of it , it doesn't really look like precog . Two reasons :
1.For one that would imply that Fraction has in-depth knowledge of the character's history . The chances of a square-circle existing are more likely .
2.Fraction's run is centered around the idea that Reed builds a machine that takes him and his family backwards in time , throughout different eras all the way back to the Big Bang . Those particular scans might just be indications of the FF's first adventure being set in the Jurassic Era .

I am only going to bother collecting Fraction's run for battleboard style discussions . Or use the free spoiler scans people on herochat post .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How 4planet-roided-Galactus would have fared individually against the MCs ? He already showed that he was capable of killing one solo , and shrugging off the combined assault of the them as a team .

Honestly speaking in that state he would have eventually beaten them all , had the remaining MCs not snatched up on the opportunity to use the dead MC's body to merge into their Voltron-like state .

That's just speculation, though, because we didn't see him defeat all 4 individually on panel. Regardless of how strong your points may or may not be, it's just conjecture. Shrugging off their assault isn't quite the same as taking each one out -- one by one.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
You keep on saying their 616 counter parts but which 616 celestial??

tiamat scared the pants off Galactus when he awaken he was shown to take on multiple celestials on his own.

And they didn't with stand the IG the one that got blasted was taken out, and then killed the one reed who was letting him use the IG, And if i remember correctly the reed using th UN it didn't work which based on that fact that version of the UN was <<<< then the 616 version.

The 616 Celestials as a race, the feats that they have performed. I don't look at Arishem and then at Eson, I look at what the race as a whole has archived in their comic history, and that tells me that 4280 = 616 Celestials, just as Hickman stated.

And this is important for you to point out because it to you shows the difference between the Celestials individual powerlevel? May I remind you that the only Celestial that Tiamut actually managed to incapacitate was Arishem, by a surprise attack no less, he lost the fight against the rest.

The Reed that used the IG, managed to defeat 3-4 Celestials by using the IG, not the whole lot, which is something we actually expect that a wielder of the IG should be able to handle without major problems. The UN worked fine, it backed fired on Reed and killed him after the beam had struck the 4280 Celestial. I don't really care that the 616>>> alternate UN's when the alternate UN's have still been shown in atleast three cases as being universal in their scale, which still means that a weapon that is capable of destroying universes was ineffective against a 4280 Celestial.

Originally posted by Doon
That's just speculation, though, because we didn't see him defeat all 4 individually on panel. Regardless of how strong your points may or may not be, it's just conjecture. Shrugging off their assault isn't quite the same as taking each one out -- one by one.

The fact that they merged to take on Galactus imo shows that they didn't believe they could take him on divided.

Originally posted by Utrigita
The fact that they merged to take on Galactus imo shows that they didn't believe they could take him on divided.

Again, though, that's just an assumption based on what was shown. They obviously had problems taking him on. That still doesn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he could have defeated them all singlehandedly. It only shows that they considered him a very worthy challenge similar to the way they viewed AF as a threat by using the words 'danger' and 'doom' upon his arrival. That said, it's possible you may be right; it's just that we don't know for certain.

Originally posted by Doon
Again, though, that's just an assumption based on what was shown. They obviously had problems taking him on. That still doesn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he could have defeated them all singlehandedly. It only shows that they considered him a very worthy challenge similar to the way they viewed AF as a threat by using the words 'danger' and 'doom' upon his arrival. That said, it's possible you may be right; it's just that we don't know for certain.

This is true, but to me this scene is a bit more solid than Tiamut making Galactus "quake in his boots".

Originally posted by Utrigita
The fact that they merged to take on Galactus imo shows that they didn't believe they could take him on divided.

Also, they supposedly merged once before as well, when dealing with somewhat a lesser threat(imo) than a 4world-beefed-Galactus.

Originally posted by Utrigita
The 616 Celestials as a race, the feats that they have performed. I don't look at Arishem and then at Eson, I look at what the race as a whole has archived in their comic history, and that tells me that 4280 = 616 Celestials, just as Hickman stated.

And this is important for you to point out because it to you shows the difference between the Celestials individual powerlevel? May I remind you that the only Celestial that Tiamut actually managed to incapacitate was Arishem, by a surprise attack no less, he lost the fight against the rest.

The Reed that used the IG, managed to defeat 3-4 Celestials by using the IG, not the whole lot, which is something we actually expect that a wielder of the IG should be able to handle without major problems. The UN worked fine, it backed fired on Reed and killed him after the beam had struck the 4280 Celestial. I don't really care that the 616>>> alternate UN's when the alternate UN's have still been shown in atleast three cases as being universal in their scale, which still means that a weapon that is capable of destroying universes was ineffective against a 4280 Celestial.

Btw, since people are lowballing alternate UNs here, lets not forget that an alternate UN on-panel deleted the Mistress Death of its universe from existence .

Originally posted by Utrigita
The fact that they merged to take on Galactus imo shows that they didn't believe they could take him on divided.

As per Hickman, Galactus would not have been able to defeat them either way. Another mystery solved.

Link below:

http://4ms.me/Qd5mRj

MrAnathema:

Question: Mr Hickman, in F4#603, had the Mad Celestials NOT combined into a super Celestial, do you feel Galactus would have been able to defeat all four (or even three) of them? Thanks for your time and previous responses.

Jonathan Hickman:

Response: No.