Gods vs Galactus

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How is any of it incorrect at all ? The Destroyer on-panel failed to do any lasting damage to any of the Celestials it was fighting .
Nope , after the Celestials were done playing and blasted it together , they reduced it to slag . It didn't manage to "fight fine" even during multi-blast . It was on-panel also shown to be a little weaker than individual members as one Celestial(I believe it was Ziran) was able to restrain it with relative ease . You're also ignoring the fact that the Destroyer was aided by the Uni-Mind(which got instantly one-shotted) in the initial phase of their battle , a privilege that Galactus didn't enjoy as he had to engage them solo .

Galactus VS Celestials was a great showing for Galactus . Odin/Destroyer VS Celestials was sheer disrespect towards the Earth Gods . It doesn't take a genius to figure out that two plus two equals four .

The Galactus in this thread is far more well-fed than the one whom Odin supposedly gave trouble . And what lots of trouble are you talking about anyways ? Even after Thor's cheap shot , Odin was the first to relent , and after the whole fiasco was over he admitted that he lacked the strength to keep up with Galactus .

You keep talking about the team's amps , yet you deliberately miss the point that Galactus is amped as well , on a great diet of 4 worlds . This is one of the most powerful canon versions of Galactus shown on-panel . Odin by himself has to summon the Destroyer armor to even out the scales against a much weaker version of Galactus , against this version of Galactus , the team doesn't stand much of a chance .

On-panel , this version of Galactus no-sold mutiple nega-bombs from a Kree fleet that was overwhelming Johnny's Annihilation Wave , just prior to his confrontation with the Celestials :

Galactus takes this battle with no more effort than what he required to put down a Celestial .

Your statement is very one sided.

This version of galctus would get raped just as fast as the destoryer if not faster.

we will play your game

It took the power of 3 celestial to take galactus out

IT took the entire fourth host to put down the destoryer

Facts are facts

galactus doesn't have the power to stand agaisnt 3 celestials

Destroyer couldn't stand against fourth host,

If anyone thinks the voltron celestials in stronger or even equal to the fourth host you have a screw loose.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Lets recall that your fact isn't based on what happened on panel either, but are based on a statement from a writer, who on panel choosed to have the Celestials merge to combat Galactus. My opinion is that they merged to defeat Galactus your opinion is that they didn't. It's that simple. Yes I assumed he would, because they merge. We perceive the merge as a sign of two entirely different situations. I see it as a sign of desperation from the Celestials, what you see it as I have no idea about, but obviously not the same.

But is it supported on panel, did the 3 or 4 Celestials defeat him seperated from each other? No they didn't, which is why Hickman also states that he feels(!) Galactus couldn't have defeated them, because on panel it wasn't shown that they had the capacity. If you really want to end this discussion just ask Hickman why he choosed to have three Celestials merge, when he feels that the Celestials could still have defeated Galactus. Because atm there is a situation, where yes Hickman states that Galactus couldn't have defeated the Celestials individually, yet he choosed to have them merge in his comic book, a merge that obviously increased their power tremendously. The merge simply appears unneeded to me if the Celestials could have defeated Galactus without it, and that is where the main difference in our opinion is. I see the merge as required move for the Celestials to emerge victorious.

Here is what we saw on-panel: Galactus engaged with the Celestials. Galactus attacked one of the Celestials with eye beams. NOTE: They, however, DID NOT initially use "concussion beams" in their assault. They ONLY grappled with him. When they merged, that's when they chose to attack him with a concussion beam; and that's when he fell. That's what we saw on-panel. So, in my opinion, had they individually assaulted Galactus with "concussion beams", he would have gone down eventually -- although not as quickly. The fact that WE DID NOT SEE GALACTUS DEFEAT THEM INDIVIDUALLY obviously left room for speculation, which is why we're having this discussion. And that's why I approached the author in the first place because -- when you have ROOM for speculation -- it's sometimes necessary to go straight to the source.

I have a question for you. You are aware that Galactus isn't a real person, right?? You're acting as if Galactus is a living creature who could have still won against the Celestials EVEN THOUGH the author of the story said he feels that such is not the case. What Hickman "feels" about the story is significant and holds much more weight than both of our viewpoints. Why? Because F4# 603 is HIS STORY. Everything that happened in that story was based on how he "feels" about the characters and such. We're not talking about a REAL LIFE EVENT; but that's how you're treating it. Like it or not, in Hickman's story, had they not merged, Galactus would have STILL fallen against the Mad Celestials. If the story was written by another author w/ his/her own thoughts and feelings about Marvel universe characters, then perhaps the outcome would be different. Based on how YOU FEEL, the outcome would, of course, be different. You didn't write the back though. Neither did I. I just happen to be on the same page with the guy who wrote the book. I was right about a lot of things, as you can see by Hickman's responses below.

http://4ms.me/SbOIaO
http://4ms.me/NKKpvE
http://4ms.me/NMNuLE
http://4ms.me/Qd5mRj

In my opinion, his latest response settles this. Since you're the one who can't accept his answer (which is clear enough for me), you're welcome to reach out to him yourself. He's usually pretty good at getting back to people. I find that it helps to make your questions as clear as possible.

I tell you what, Utrigita. I'll go ahead and ask him this last question on your behalf. At this point, he might tell me to f-off though, but we'll see. lol

EDIT: Question asked. I'll let you know if/when he responds to it.

Originally posted by Doon
Here is what we saw on-panel: Galactus engaged with the Celestials. Galactus attacked one of the Celestials with eye beams. NOTE: They, however, DID NOT initially use "concussion beams" in their assault. They ONLY grappled with him. When they merged, that's when they chose to attack him with a concussion beam; and that's when he fell. That's what we saw on-panel. So, in my opinion, had they individually assaulted Galactus with "concussion beams", he would have gone down eventually -- although not as quickly. The fact that WE DID NOT SEE GALACTUS DEFEAT THEM INDIVIDUALLY obviously left room for speculation, which is why we're having this discussion. And that's why I approached the author in the first place because -- when you have ROOM for speculation -- it's sometimes necessary to go straight to the source.

I have a question for you. You are aware that Galactus isn't a real person, right?? You're acting as if Galactus is a living creature who could have still won against the Celestials EVEN THOUGH the author of the story said he feels that such is not the case. What Hickman "feels" about the story is significant and holds much more weight than both of our viewpoints. Why? Because F4# 603 is HIS STORY. Everything that happened in that story was based on how he "feels" about the characters and such. We're not talking about a REAL LIFE EVENT; but that's how you're treating it. Like it or not, in Hickman's story, had they not merged, Galactus would have STILL fallen against the Mad Celestials. If the story was written by another author w/ his/her own thoughts and feelings about Marvel universe characters, then perhaps the outcome would be different. Based on how YOU FEEL, the outcome would, of course, be different. You didn't write the back though. Neither did I. I just happen to be on the same page with the guy who wrote the book. I was right about a lot of things, as you can see by Hickman's responses below.

http://4ms.me/SbOIaO
http://4ms.me/NKKpvE
http://4ms.me/NMNuLE
http://4ms.me/Qd5mRj

In my opinion, his latest response settles this. Since you're the one who can't accept his answer (which is clear enough for me), you're welcome to reach out to him yourself. He's usually pretty good at getting back to people. I find that it helps to make your questions as clear as possible.

And the room is still there imo, because the door swings both ways, yes Galactus didn't defeat the Celestials on panel, but the Celestials unmerged didn't defeat Galactus either. What they could have done etc. is good and all but that doesn't change that the outcome of the confrontation between the Galactus and the last three Celestials wasn't shown on panel, unless I'm misising something about that engagement being shown on panel.

I'm well aware of that, what I'm pointing out is that a feeling doesn't equal fact, just because I feel a person is guilty of something doesn't make it fact. To me Hickman is doing the same here (I have a feeling) as he did in regards to that rather fluffy answer he gave you one time (can't recall the exact question) where he asked you what you thought. But that is just my opinion.

I have no problem with acknowledge his answer, I have a problem with his answer imo not being supported with on panel evidence, and that is really it. Sure I will use his answer, state it, link to it but I don't have to agree with it in the slightest. Same way as I highly dislike a UN having zero effect on a Celestial yet that is the way things are.

What I'm merely asking people to be cautios against is taking writer statements as the end all and be all. If Hickman said that he felt the mad Celestials could defeat the Living Tribunal, I hope to God none would take such a statement seriously, for the exact same reason that people are laughing at the writer stating that OF Thor would lose to Hulk.

Originally posted by Doon
I tell you what, Utrigita. I'll go ahead and ask him this last question on your behalf. At this point, he might tell me to f-off though, but we'll see. lol

EDIT: Question asked. I'll let you know if/when he responds to it.

Cool.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I'm well aware of that, what I'm pointing out is that a feeling doesn't equal fact, just because I feel a person is guilty of something doesn't make it fact. To me Hickman is doing the same here (I have a feeling) as he did in regards to that rather fluffy answer he gave you one time (can't recall the exact question) where he asked you what you thought. But that is just my opinion.

To be fair, Hickman wasn't the one who used the word "feel" -- I was. He just said, "No", which, to me, is pretty clear. And again, his thoughts and feelings regarding the book are more significant than mine since he was the one who wrote it. That said, if he had responded, "How do YOU FEEL about it?", that would have been a "fluffy" answer in my opinion.

Yeah, I once asked him if Galactus was killed or just left in a comatose state by the Mad Celestials. He didn't want to touch that one. Godkiller jinxed that particular question for me though. lol

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Your statement is very one sided.

This version of galctus would get raped just as fast as the destoryer if not faster.

we will play your game

It took the power of 3 celestial to take galactus out

IT took the entire fourth host to put down the destoryer

Facts are facts

galactus doesn't have the power to stand agaisnt 3 celestials

Destroyer couldn't stand against fourth host,

If anyone thinks the voltron celestials in stronger or even equal to the fourth host you have a screw loose.

One celestial was too much for the destroyer. Do the scans need to be posted showing the armor being completely impotent. ONE celestial completely no sold a full blast from the destroyer beam with a casual gesture. They were toying with the destroyer and then proceeded to fukc it up authoritatively. By the way you post you make it seem as if the entire 4th host had to combine its powers to even slow it down.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I have no problem with acknowledge his answer, I have a problem with his answer imo not being supported with on panel evidence, and that is really it. Sure I will use his answer, state it, link to it but I don't have to agree with it in the slightest. Same way as I highly dislike a UN having zero effect on a Celestial yet that is the way things are.

What I'm merely asking people to be cautios against is taking writer statements as the end all and be all. If Hickman said that he felt the mad Celestials could defeat the Living Tribunal, I hope to God none would take such a statement seriously, for the exact same reason that people are laughing at the writer stating that OF Thor would lose to Hulk.

The questions I've asked of Hickman pertain strictly to the events which took place in his F4/FF run -- mostly F4# 603 and 604. So your point about Mad Celestials and The Living Tribunal makes no sense since he never wrote a story where those two characters interacted with each other. Asking a writer about his/her thoughts on a random subject he has nothing/little to do with is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT to requesting clarification on a story he/she wrote.

Originally posted by Doon
The questions I've asked of Hickman pertain strictly to the events which took place in his F4/FF run -- mostly F4# 603 and 604. So your point about Mad Celestials and The Living Tribunal makes no sense since he never wrote a story where those two characters interacted with each other. Asking a writer about his/her thoughts on a random subject he has nothing/little to do with is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT to requesting clarification on a story he/she wrote.

It actually makes perfect sense if you think about it, and apply your own line of logic, technically none should know the Mad Celestials better then Hickman, so he if anybody should know their capacity it would be him, so if he said Mad Celestials > LT what is merely a example on my part, how then would you treat it? What I'm advocating is merely caution when using writers, Hickman is merely a perfect example atm.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Your statement is very one sided.

This version of galctus would get raped just as fast as the destoryer if not faster.

we will play your game

It took the power of 3 celestial to take galactus out

IT took the entire fourth host to put down the destoryer

Facts are facts

galactus doesn't have the power to stand agaisnt 3 celestials

Destroyer couldn't stand against fourth host,

If anyone thinks the voltron celestials in stronger or even equal to the fourth host you have a screw loose.

The Destroyer couldn't stand against one Celestial.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Your statement is very one sided.

This version of galctus would get raped just as fast as the destoryer if not faster.

we will play your game

It took the power of 3 celestial to take galactus out

IT took the entire fourth host to put down the destoryer

Facts are facts

galactus doesn't have the power to stand agaisnt 3 celestials

Destroyer couldn't stand against fourth host,

If anyone thinks the voltron celestials in stronger or even equal to the fourth host you have a screw loose.

Btw , the Destroyer went up against 3 individual Celestials before being gang-banged :
Against Nezzar , it failed to do any lasting damage .
Against Ziran , it got easily physically outmatched .
Against Tefral , it got disarmed .

Once all of the above was done , the rest of the Celestials joined the fray , with Arishem's approval , and gang-raped the Destroyer .As was mentioned before , the Odin/Destroyer VS Celestials showing was sheer disrespect towards the Earth Gods . Lets not try and change that fact to something its not .

Also , your Destroyer had a weapon and an ally , and yet it performed miserably against the 4th Host . The moment Galactus got his own ally , his Celestial opponents were royally phucked .

Originally posted by Utrigita
It actually makes perfect sense if you think about it, and apply your own line of logic, technically none should know the Mad Celestials better then Hickman, so he if anybody should know their capacity it would be him, so if he said Mad Celestials > LT what is merely a example on my part, how then would you treat it?

Asking an author for clarification on certain events which take place in a story he wrote for a particular comic, in this case F4#603, is still not the same thing as asking about random characters that have nothing to do with the aforementioned story. And they should be treated differently. F4#603 = ONE STORY based on Hickman's perception of the Marvel universe; and that's what I've been requesting clarification on. Sure, I could ask him about the Living Tribunal, but LT has nothing to do with the story Hickman wrote. So, while I might value his opinion about the LT (depending on what it is), I would never opt to use it in a discussion pertaining to F4# 603 unless LT was, in some way, involved. By reaching out to the author, my intent has been to gain clarity on a particular aspect of A STORYLINE HE CREATED -- not his view of unrelated topics.

Originally posted by Utrigita
If you really want to end this discussion just ask Hickman why he choosed to have three Celestials merge, when he feels that the Celestials could still have defeated Galactus.

J.Hickman responded.

http://4ms.me/U4Iomh

MrAnathema asks:
Mr.Hickman, if Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Mad Celestials all by himself in F4#603, why did they opt to merge? For some readers, this was a point of confusion. Thanks for your time.

Jonathan Hickman responds:
He clearly -- cranked up on four planets -- could separately cause them some serious damage. So they merged and crushed him.

There you have it. And this response pretty much supports what I said earlier on in this thread. He even used the word DAMAGE just like I did.
Here's what I said before:
"Although he couldn't defeat them all, Galactus clearly had the power to do at least some damage to them, right? Maybe they just wanted to take him out as quickly as possible. They recognized him as a worthy challenge much in the same way they feared Adult Franklin, as evidenced by their utterance of the words "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival."

Although Galactus couldn't stop ALL the Celestials individually, he still had the potential to hurt one or more of them.

Originally posted by Doon
J.Hickman responded.

http://4ms.me/U4Iomh

MrAnathema asks:
Mr.Hickman, if Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Mad Celestials all by himself in F4#603, why did they opt to merge? For some readers, this was a point of confusion. Thanks for your time.

Jonathan Hickman responds:
He clearly -- cranked up on four planets -- could separately cause them some serious damage. So they merged and crushed him.

There you have it. And this response pretty much supports what I said earlier on in this thread. He even used the word DAMAGE just like I did.
Here's what I said before:
"Although he couldn't defeat them all, Galactus clearly had the power to do at least some damage to them, right? Maybe they just wanted to take him out as quickly as possible. They recognized him as a worthy challenge much in the same way they feared Adult Franklin, as evidenced by their utterance of the words "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival."

Although Galactus couldn't stop ALL the Celestials individually, he still had the potential to hurt one or more of them.

Cool.

Originally posted by Doon
J.Hickman responded.

http://4ms.me/U4Iomh

MrAnathema asks:
Mr.Hickman, if Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Mad Celestials all by himself in F4#603, why did they opt to merge? For some readers, this was a point of confusion. Thanks for your time.

Jonathan Hickman responds:
He clearly -- cranked up on four planets -- could separately cause them some serious damage. So they merged and crushed him.

There you have it. And this response pretty much supports what I said earlier on in this thread. He even used the word DAMAGE just like I did.
Here's what I said before:
"Although he couldn't defeat them all, Galactus clearly had the power to do at least some damage to them, right? Maybe they just wanted to take him out as quickly as possible. They recognized him as a worthy challenge much in the same way they feared Adult Franklin, as evidenced by their utterance of the words "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival."

Although Galactus couldn't stop ALL the Celestials individually, he still had the potential to hurt one or more of them.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
So know iam confused did Galactus kill the first celestial or just knocked him out. i was under the impression he killed it but the writer makes it sound like he didn't/couldn't

Originally posted by zopzop
Apparently it was only a KO. You'll notice when Voltron was hit by Sol's Anvil, it WRECKED the KOed Celestials body and broke Voltron apart and they couldn't combine again. If Galactus killed that Celestial, then they wouldn't be able to form Voltron in the first place.

Already discussed here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t562045.html

I don't think Hickman's comments can any way, shape or form discredit what Galactus was able to accomplish against the Celestials or what he can do to the team specified in the OP.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
So know iam confused did Galactus kill the first celestial or just knocked him out. i was under the impression he killed it but the writer makes it sound like he didn't/couldn't

He defeated/killed the first Celestial and likely expended a great deal of energy in doing so. He couldn't take down the rest, though, but he still had the potential to inflict more damage upon them -- so they merged and "crushed him".

Originally posted by Tar-Antado
Already discussed here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t562045.html

I don't think Hickman's comments can any way, shape or form discredit what Galactus was able to accomplish against the Celestials or what he can do to the team specified in the OP.

Big G defeated one Celestial. He couldn't kill/defeat the others though, but he still had the potential to cause them further damage. Although he couldn't defeat them all, the Celestials didn't want to sustain anymore damage -- so they merged and crushed him. Sorry, but Hickman's comments about his own story are significant. Get over it.

Originally posted by Doon
Big G defeated one Celestial. He couldn't kill/defeat the others though, but he still had the potential to cause them further damage. Although he couldn't defeat them all, the Celestials didn't want to sustain anymore damage -- so they merged and crushed him. Sorry, but Hickman's comments about his own story are significant. Get over it.

I'm very cool with what Hickman revealed. Galactus was perceived as a threat to MC'sr plans and well being so they had to resort to what has to be assumed as their ultimate attack: Voltron. It was needed to eliminate Galactus as a threat. No shame in that, specially after getting a second chance from Franklin to help win the day, I just don't see Hickman's comments diminishing Galactus in any context,