Originally posted by Utrigita
The 616 Celestials as a race, the feats that they have performed. I don't look at Arishem and then at Eson, I look at what the race as a whole has archived in their comic history, and that tells me that 4280 = 616 Celestials, just as Hickman stated.And this is important for you to point out because it to you shows the difference between the Celestials individual powerlevel? May I remind you that the only Celestial that Tiamut actually managed to incapacitate was Arishem, by a surprise attack no less, he lost the fight against the rest.
The Reed that used the IG, managed to defeat 3-4 Celestials by using the IG, not the whole lot, which is something we actually expect that a wielder of the IG should be able to handle without major problems. The UN worked fine, it backed fired on Reed and killed him after the beam had struck the 4280 Celestial. I don't really care that the 616>>> alternate UN's when the alternate UN's have still been shown in atleast three cases as being universal in their scale, which still means that a weapon that is capable of destroying universes was ineffective against a 4280 Celestial.
The Ig reed used was shown to be useless when not in its on universe, Reed had to use the one of the other reed just to power it. Oppose to the 616 IG which if iam not mistaken destoryed all the universes. didn't it not??
Originally posted by Doon
As per Hickman, Galactus would not have been able to defeat them either way. Another mystery solved.Link below:
MrAnathema:
Question: Mr Hickman, in F4#603, had the Mad Celestials NOT combined into a super Celestial, do you feel Galactus would have been able to defeat all four (or even three) of them? Thanks for your time and previous responses.
Jonathan Hickman:
Response: No.
With that I am going to say the gods take this . the destroyer armour was shown to take muilple hits from fourth host. The fact that 3 celestials could take down this version of galactus I find it hard press for him to be able to take down the gods with all their amps.
Originally posted by DarkOdin
With that I am going to say the gods take this . the destroyer armour was shown to take muilple hits from fourth host. The fact that 3 celestials could take down this version of galactus I find it hard press for him to be able to take down the gods with all their amps.
Nah, Thor took multiple hits too and didn't go down. By your logic, Thor is more powerful than uber Destroyer. It doesn't work that way.
Originally posted by DarkOdin
With that I am going to say the gods take this . the destroyer armour was shown to take muilple hits from fourth host. The fact that 3 celestials could take down this version of galactus I find it hard press for him to be able to take down the gods with all their amps.
To be fair, Galactus (like Adult Franklin) was still able to destroy a couple of Celestials though -- even though he couldn't take down all of them singlehandedly. That's still a pretty impressive feat in my book. Destroyer, on the other hand, was unable to defeat ANY members of the 4th Host. He chopped off one of their arms, but it grew right back instantaneously.
Also some of the gods and amps listed by the original poster would have little to no effect on Big G. Heimdall? Skuttlebutt? Belt of Strength? Really? The strongest contenders in that group, in my opinion, would be Odin, Zeus, Bor, and Gaea.
Originally posted by DarkOdin
The Ig reed used was shown to be useless when not in its on universe, Reed had to use the one of the other reed just to power it. Oppose to the 616 IG which if iam not mistaken destoryed all the universes. didn't it not??
No it didn't, and Reed with the powered IG was still incapable of defeating more then three or four Celestials with it, iirc.
Originally posted by Doon
As per Hickman, Galactus would not have been able to defeat them either way. Another mystery solved.Link below:
MrAnathema:
Question: Mr Hickman, in F4#603, had the Mad Celestials NOT combined into a super Celestial, do you feel Galactus would have been able to defeat all four (or even three) of them? Thanks for your time and previous responses.
Jonathan Hickman:
Response: No.
And then my automatic followup to Hickman would be, why did they then merge? Someone asked earlier if you should always automatically agree with a writer here is a example where I think what Hickman showed on panel, goes against what he is stating. But that is just my opinion.
Originally posted by Utrigita
And then my automatic followup to Hickman would be, why did they then merge? Someone asked earlier if you should always automatically agree with a writer here is a example where I think what Hickman showed on panel, goes against what he is stating. But that is just my opinion.
Well, the fact that they merged NEVER meant, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Galactus had the power to defeat 3 or 4 of the Celestials; that's just the way you and some others interpreted the comic. (I obviously was more open-minded to other possibilities; and Hickman confirmed what I suspected.) In my opinion, the Mad Celestials viewed Galactus as a threat. Although he couldn't defeat them all, Galactus clearly had the power to do at least some damage to them, right? Maybe they just wanted to take him out as quickly as possible. They recognized him as a worthy challenge much in the same way they feared Adult Franklin, as evidenced by their utterance of the words "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival.
Anyway, I'm fine with Hickman's response; and I asked him plenty of questions already. He said, "No". Like Godkiller mentioned to someone else regarding another response from JH, you may not like it, but it is what it is.
It's like saying just because Thor used a thunderbolt to beat someone, he couldn't do it if he didn't use a thunderbolt. Just because the Celestials used a certain method to defeat Galactus, doesn't mean they couldn't do it without that method.
Also, their power is still the same, just merged into one being rather than spread out.
Originally posted by UtrigitaAnd Thanos with the IG was able to take every high end comicsbeing minus the LT with the 616IG which only goes to prove how lesser the IG Reed use was.
No it didn't, and Reed with the powered IG was still incapable of defeating more then three or four Celestials with it, iirc.
Originally posted by DarkOdin
With that I am going to say the gods take this . the destroyer armour was shown to take muilple hits from fourth host. The fact that 3 celestials could take down this version of galactus I find it hard press for him to be able to take down the gods with all their amps.
Most of the team are mere trans-tier characters(along with a skyfather) who'll get one-shotted without much problems , with one Elder God and one amped skyfather(apart from Odin) being the only ones who stand a chance . In the end they too will go down .
Originally posted by TheGodKillerIam sorry this ImO is incorrect. The destroyer armour took a blast from the entire fourth host to finally be put down. and multi blast it still managed to fight fine. Odin with out the armour gave Galactus lots of trouble.
This version of Galactus had enough power to kill a Celestial , even while he was being assaulted by other Celestials(and not be depleted by the battle) , something a more powerful version of this Destroyer failed to do .Most of the team are mere trans-tier characters(along with a skyfather) who'll get one-shotted without much problems , with one Elder God and one amped skyfather(apart from Odin) being the only ones who stand a chance . In the end they too will go down .
Gaea
Marvel Ares with Twilight Sword
Bor
Odin with Destroyer Armor and Odinsword
Thor with Belt of strength, magic gauntlets, Odin force shield
Zeus
With the group above I can't see galactus winning this at all. If anything Odin engaging galactus would be trouble. Let alone getting pounded on by the other above plus the guys be;pw. The odds are greatly stack for the team.
This is has some great amps on it side heck that version of Thor beat a highly amped Thanos clone.
It not the gods that make me think the Gods win it is the weapons they are using plus there already high stats
Loki
Classic Hercules with Mace
Perun
Beta Ray Bill and Skuttlebutt
Thunderstrike
Bast
Heimdall
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Iam sorry this ImO is incorrect. The destroyer armour took a blast from the entire fourth host to finally be put down. and multi blast it still managed to fight fine. Odin with out the armour gave Galactus lots of trouble.Gaea
Marvel Ares with Twilight Sword
Bor
Odin with Destroyer Armor and Odinsword
Thor with Belt of strength, magic gauntlets, Odin force shield
ZeusWith the group above I can't see galactus winning this at all. If anything Odin engaging galactus would be trouble. Let alone getting pounded on by the other above plus the guys be;pw. The odds are greatly stack for the team.
This is has some great amps on it side heck that version of Thor beat a highly amped Thanos clone.
It not the gods that make me think the Gods win it is the weapons they are using plus there already high stats
Loki
Classic Hercules with Mace
Perun
Beta Ray Bill and Skuttlebutt
Thunderstrike
Bast
Heimdall
Galactus VS Celestials was a great showing for Galactus . Odin/Destroyer VS Celestials was sheer disrespect towards the Earth Gods . It doesn't take a genius to figure out that two plus two equals four .
The Galactus in this thread is far more well-fed than the one whom Odin supposedly gave trouble . And what lots of trouble are you talking about anyways ? Even after Thor's cheap shot , Odin was the first to relent , and after the whole fiasco was over he admitted that he lacked the strength to keep up with Galactus .
You keep talking about the team's amps , yet you deliberately miss the point that Galactus is amped as well , on a great diet of 4 worlds . This is one of the most powerful canon versions of Galactus shown on-panel . Odin by himself has to summon the Destroyer armor to even out the scales against a much weaker version of Galactus , against this version of Galactus , the team doesn't stand much of a chance .
On-panel , this version of Galactus no-sold mutiple nega-bombs from a Kree fleet that was overwhelming Johnny's Annihilation Wave , just prior to his confrontation with the Celestials :
Galactus takes this battle with no more effort than what he required to put down a Celestial .
Originally posted by Doon
Well, the fact that they merged NEVER meant, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Galactus had the power to defeat 3 or 4 of the Celestials; that's just the way you and some others interpreted the comic. (I obviously was more open-minded to other possibilities; and Hickman confirmed what I suspected.) In my opinion, the Mad Celestials viewed Galactus as a threat. Although he couldn't defeat them all, Galactus clearly had the power to do at least some damage to them, right? Maybe they just wanted to take him out as quickly as possible. They recognized him as a worthy challenge much in the same way they feared Adult Franklin, as evidenced by their utterance of the words "danger" and "doom" upon his arrival.Anyway, I'm fine with Hickman's response; and I asked him plenty of questions already. He said, "No". Like Godkiller mentioned to someone else regarding another response from JH, you may not like it, but it is what it is.
Yes, that is how I feel about the confrontation between the Celestials and Galactus and what course of action the Celestials afterwards choosed to follow. I feel they merged in order to defeat Galactus, just like Hickman feels that Galactus wouldn't have been capable of defeating 3 or four of them.
True I never said that, but as I also said earlier, I'm fine with writers stating this and that, but ultimately I like what they are stating to be backed up by on panel evidence, lets assume a writer said that Rhino could beat Thor, no one on this board would take such a statement seriously because the statement lacks the on panel evidence to be valid.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes, that is how I feel about the confrontation between the Celestials and Galactus and what course of action the Celestials afterwards choosed to follow. I feel they merged in order to defeat Galactus, just like Hickman feels that Galactus wouldn't have been capable of defeating 3 or four of them.True I never said that, but as I also said earlier, I'm fine with writers stating this and that, but ultimately I like what they are stating to be backed up by on panel evidence, lets assume a writer said that Rhino could beat Thor, no one on this board would take such a statement seriously because the statement lacks the on panel evidence to be valid.
Celestials merging is an entirely new concept as Galan pointed out in another thread . We don't know exactly how much power is used for the merger , what are the conditions under which said merge takes place(i.e do they always use the body of a fallen comrade to merge?) , or for how exactly long the merge can be sustained . They had supposedly merged once before , but the exact circumstances/context under which this merge took place is unknown .
Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes, that is how I feel about the confrontation between the Celestials and Galactus and what course of action the Celestials afterwards choosed to follow. I feel they merged in order to defeat Galactus, just like Hickman feels that Galactus wouldn't have been capable of defeating 3 or four of them.True I never said that, but as I also said earlier, I'm fine with writers stating this and that, but ultimately I like what they are stating to be backed up by on panel evidence, lets assume a writer said that Rhino could beat Thor, no one on this board would take such a statement seriously because the statement lacks the on panel evidence to be valid.
You missed my point -- almost entirely. Like I said before, the fact that the Celestials merged NEVER MEANT that Galactus had the ability to defeat all 3 or 4 of them. Your opinion, which you're obviously entitled to, is based on conjecture rather than "on-panel evidence". Now, if Galactus actually HAD managed to defeat all of the Celestials singlehandedly, then you would be correct in saying that Hickman's statement doesn't reflect what happened on-panel. You can't say that though because Galactus never beat them all individually; you just assumed he could.
Secondly, Hickman is the author of F4# 604; it's his brainchild! So, if he says that Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Celestials (without aid) in HIS story; then they couldn't. It's really that simple. That said, Galactus' showing was still pretty impressive. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
Originally posted by Doon
You missed my point -- almost entirely. Like I said before, the fact that the Celestials merged NEVER MEANT that Galactus had the ability to defeat all 3 or 4 of them. Your opinion, which you're obviously entitled to, is based on conjecture rather than "on-panel evidence". Now, if Galactus actually HAD managed to defeat all of the Celestials singlehandedly, then you would be correct in saying that Hickman's statement doesn't reflect what happened on-panel. You can't say that though because Galactus never beat them all individually; you just assumed he could.Secondly, Hickman is the author of F4# 604; it's his brainchild! So, if he says that Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Celestials (without aid) in HIS story; then they couldn't. It's really that simple. That said, Galactus' showing was still pretty impressive. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
Lets recall that your fact isn't based on what happened on panel either, but are based on a statement from a writer, who on panel choosed to have the Celestials merge to combat Galactus. My opinion is that they merged to defeat Galactus your opinion is that they didn't. It's that simple. Yes I assumed he would, because they merge. We perceive the merge as a sign of two entirely different situations. I see it as a sign of desperation from the Celestials, what you see it as I have no idea about, but obviously not the same.
But is it supported on panel, did the 3 or 4 Celestials defeat him seperated from each other? No they didn't, which is why Hickman also states that he feels(!) Galactus couldn't have defeated them, because on panel it wasn't shown that they had the capacity. If you really want to end this discussion just ask Hickman why he choosed to have three Celestials merge, when he feels that the Celestials could still have defeated Galactus. Because atm there is a situation, where yes Hickman states that Galactus couldn't have defeated the Celestials individually, yet he choosed to have them merge in his comic book, a merge that obviously increased their power tremendously. The merge simply appears unneeded to me if the Celestials could have defeated Galactus without it, and that is where the main difference in our opinion is. I see the merge as required move for the Celestials to emerge victorious.
