Bor vs DCnU Darkseid

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
facepalm

You know it's time for you to go out, buy some DC Comics and start to read them. Looking at selected scans won't do it.

Maybe you should buy some comics buddy. What I, Carver9 know is that Superman is the most durable on the JLA and he ran from a nuke and got koed from a hit that rammed his head into the moon. This doesn't include his other showings and again, he is the most durable on the team.

If this was pre reboot JLA, they would merk Bor but this version of JLA isn't ready yet.

Darkseid.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Darkseid.

facepalm

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, looks like some context is needed for this post.

More powerful as a whole, sure. More powerful individually? Not a chance. He was manipulated by a prepped Loki who took advantage of Bor's defenses being raised. DCnU Superman and Green Lantern don't have the feats that classic Thor has, and that much is obvious. And that wasn't even a solid strike from Bor who tapped into his power as a whole. The only real argument is Diana being able to block with her bracers, and even she hasn't displayed anything from the DCnU to justify her taking on Bor and winning, let alone surviving. Not sure why Bor isn't impressive in your eyes unless you just gloss over the context of his feats. And Rulk was using Loebforce/power absorbing to beat OF Thor, so again, moot point.

Bor could block the OE with his axe.

OF Thor is solidly above High Herald. Looking at his feats and comparing them to classic/current Thor and it's clear that OF Thor >>> Thor without the Odin Force. Normal Thor doesn't tank Destroyer's attacks nor survive attacks that would have killed him easily. So, yes, both OF Thor and Bor above High Heralds and you're wrong in your assessment of both power levels as evidenced by the comics themselves.

So what else do you have?

More powerful as a whole? So You agree, good boy. Speculations on your part, and I don't like Loeb so I will grant you this "shameful defeat" as a moot point.

The Oe could change directions before hitting the axe and strike his back *duh. Stupid game dur

Your opinion. So OF Thor strike send a shockwave through the whole cosmos? Or did he lift something as big as the Midgard Serpent? I don't think so. Classic feats were greater, so was Classic Odin, Classic Strange and Classic Destroyer. They don't write them this way anymore. So no, you are wrong.

Feats > Portrayals = Classic Thor (Classic Era) > OF Thor etc.
Portrayals > Feats = your only way to argue.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
More powerful as a whole? So You agree, good boy. Speculations on your part, and I don't like Loeb so I will grant you this "shamful defeat" as a moot point.

The Oe could change directions before hitting the axe and strike his back *duh. Stupid game dur

Your opinion. So OF Thor strike send a shockwave through the whole cosmos? Or did he lift something as big as the Midgard Serpent? I don't think so. Classic feats were greater, so was Classic Odin, Classic Strange and Classic Destroyer. They don't write them this way anymore. So no, you are wrong.

More powerful as a whole =/= actually winning. What's speculation on my part? Rulk absorbed his powers, as evidenced by how he was able to use Mjolnir's lightning when he struck Thor and no sell a direct hammer shot to the face. You not liking Loeb doesn't invalidate anything.

So now Darkseid's OE is unblockable and unavoidable....even though we clearly saw that it's not?

The difference between my opinion and yours is that mine is backed by comics. Christ, OF Thor clearly performs feats greater than what classic Thor can. The Destroyer hasn't changed in power level and neither has Odin Force-less Thor. And we see the very clear difference in their power level via feats and statements which are backed by actual on panel evidence.

Now you're basically just trolling and ignoring what's clear for everyone to see.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Feats > Portrayals = Classic Thor (Classic Era) > OF Thor etc.
Portrayals > Feats = your only way to argue.

This shit doesn't even make sense.

Classic Thor = Current Thor. High end feats don't change that and even Thor post 2007 has high end feats to rival Thor before his relaunch. And considering Thor never experienced an explicit power loss and argument to the contrary is asinine.

My argument is based on portrayals, feats, statements verified by feats, on panel evidence, and just common sense.

I mean, shit, how you can argue with a straight face that Thor without the Odin Force is more formidable than when he does have it? barker

Like I said, this is akin to arguing Savage/"Classic" Hulk > Green Scar because he has high end feats that trump the events of World War Hulk. Which is unilaterally stupid.

^DC had a Pre Crisis era, maybe it's time to accept that Marvel had something similar and the feats are now less impressive and "stupid" in favour of better stories?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
More powerful as a whole =/= actually winning. What's speculation on my part? Rulk absorbed his powers, as evidenced by how he was able to use Mjolnir's lightning when he struck Thor and no sell a direct hammer shot to the face. You not liking Loeb doesn't invalidate anything.

So now Darkseid's OE is unblockable and unavoidable....even though we clearly saw that it's not?

The difference between my opinion and yours is that mine is backed by comics. Christ, OF Thor clearly performs feats greater than what classic Thor can. The Destroyer hasn't changed in power level and neither has Odin Force-less Thor. And we see the very clear difference in their power level via feats and statements which are backed by actual on panel evidence.

Now you're basically just trolling and ignoring what's clear for everyone to see.

The Team would beat Bor more easily then DCnU Darkseid. And Darkseid had to be bfr by a force more powerful then OF Thor because he couldn't be killed by them. OF Thor wouldn't be able to beat DCnU DS the same way as he beat Bor. Simple.
Speculations about if Dianas Bracer will work against Bor or not facepalm
I agreed with you on the Loebforce being the reason for thors defeat.... You are making it hard for yourself facepalm2

So DS can't use his OE beams and changed their directions to strike an oponnent from behind, around a corner or things like that? dur

No, that's you opinion, don't pretend it's backed by comics or go and read some classic stuff again... Arrogance or a bad memory won't help you here and just because you say "this is true and backed by comics" doesn't makes it true, you are not that important and you are no authority here, so stop pretending,
They did, by feats, not by portrayal, you sole argument btw.

Now you don't like someone disagreeing what you, the authority you are, "declared" as facts. Really, your opinion is nothing more then what it is, your opinion. And it's nice to know that YOU know what everyone sees here... Christ... it's like arguing with a child.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The Team would beat Bor more easily then DCnU Darkseid. And Darkseid had to be bfr by a force more powerful then OF Thor because he couldn't be killed by them. OF Thor wouldn't be able to beat DCnU DS the same way as he beat Bor. Simple.
Speculations about if Dianas Bracer will work against Bor or not facepalm
I agreed with you on the Loebforce being thor defeat.... You are making it hard for yourself facepalm2

So DS can't use his OE beams and changed their directions to strike an oponnent from behind, around a corner or things like that? dur

No, that's you opinion, don't pretend it's backed by comics or go and read some classic stuff again... Arrogance or a bad memory won't help you here and just because you say "this is true and backed by comics" doesn't makes it true, you are not that important and you are o authority here, so stop pretending,
They did, by feats, not by portrayal, you sole argument btw.

Now you don't like someone disagreeing what you, the authority you are, "declared" as facts. Really, your opinion is nothing more then what it is, your opinion. And it's nice to know that YOU know what everyone sees here... Christ... it's like arguing with a child.

So you're telling me DCnU is beyond the means of normal Thor to brain with Mjolnir, let alone Odin Force Thor, who struck Bor hard enough to actually shatter Mjolnir? 😐

What BFR is more powerful than Odin Force Thor's capability? Being the connoisseur of Thor you claim to be, I trust you're well informed on Thor's impressive spatial and dimensional warping powers, right?

Not really speculation when we haven't seen the upper limits of DCnU Diana's bracers. Could she block them? Possibly, sure. I won't apply a no limits fallacy to them though or attribute pre-Flashpoint's Diana's feats on to them because "it sounds right", either. I do know that DCnU Diana hasn't shown anything to suggest surviving an encounter with Bor, though.

I'm not making this anymore difficult than it already is. That'd be on you, buddy.

And Bor can't block the OE with his axe, use his own lazer eyes!!111 or just rush Darkseid and attack him head on?

Lmao, it is totally based on comics. Stop trolling and trying to legitimately argue Thor w/o the OF > Thor w/ the OF. I'm not being arrogant here at all, either. I'm literally telling you what the comics support by feats and statements and portrayals. You can not like it as much as you want. Doesn't make your opinion any more valid (which it's not).

It's one thing to argue and have a differing opinion about something that could have possible answers or outcomes. In the case of Thor and OF Thor, however, it's not. You're literally arguing against respective on panel evidence show casing the different in power and formidability, statements showing us he's more powerful than before, and simple logic that Thor with an amp is more powerful than he is without an amp.

Seriously, this is outright trolling on your part.

TBH, Classic Thor seemed more powerful than OF Thor...

Anyway, Bor wins this easily.

Originally posted by ares834
TBH, Classic Thor seemed more powerful than OF Thor...

Anyway, Bor wins this easily.

Not at all.

Originally posted by ares834
TBH, Classic Thor seemed more powerful than OF Thor...

Anyway, Bor wins this easily.

He's not. Him having high end feats doesn't mean that he's more powerful than a Thor with an explicit amp.

"Classic" Savage Hulk has high end feats greater than the feats displayed in WWH. No one sane would argue Savage Hulk > Green Scar.

Bryne Superman has some high end feats which are more impressive than the abysmal James Robinson' run of Superman right before Flashpoint and DCnU. No one sane would argue that Superman > than pre-reboot Superman.

This is simple logic we're talking about here.

Originally posted by Mindset
On average?

Fair enough. I only really see his high end feats like lifting the Midgard Serpent and stopping the galaxy destroying bomb.

I guess people treat him like PC Superman in that respect.

Originally posted by Mindset
Not at all.

I'm curious, why? I haven't been that impressed by any members of the Justice League in the DCnU yet.

Originally posted by ares834
TBH, Classic Thor seemed more powerful than OF Thor...

A few high end feats here and there don't automatically become a character's average .

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So you're telling me DCnU is beyond the means of normal Thor to brain with Mjolnir, let alone Odin Force Thor, who struck Bor hard enough to actually shatter Mjolnir? 😐

What BFR is more powerful than Odin Force Thor's capability? Being the connoisseur of Thor you claim to be, I trust you're well informed on Thor's impressive spatial and dimensional warping powers, right?

Not really speculation when we haven't seen the upper limits of DCnU Diana's bracers. Could she block them? Possibly, sure. I won't apply a no limits fallacy to them though or attribute pre-Flashpoint's Diana's feats on to them because "it sounds right", either. I do know that DCnU Diana hasn't shown anything to suggest surviving an encounter with Bor, though.

I'm not making this anymore difficult than it already is. That'd be on you, buddy.

And Bor can't block the OE with his axe, use his own lazer eyes!!111 or just rush Darkseid and attack him head on?

Lmao, it is totally based on comics. Stop trolling and trying to legitimately argue Thor w/o the OF > Thor w/ the OF. I'm not being arrogant here at all, either. I'm literally telling you what the comics support by feats and statements and portrayals. You can not like it as much as you want. Doesn't make your opinion any more valid (which it's not).

It's one thing to argue and have a differing opinion about something that could have possible answers or outcomes. In the case of Thor and OF Thor, however, it's not. You're literally arguing against respective on panel evidence show casing the different in power and formidability, statements showing us he's more powerful than before, and simple logic that Thor with an amp is more powerful than he is without an amp.

Seriously, this is outright trolling on your part.

DCnU? Like the whole DCnU? Be clearer...

OE. I won't do your work... You are trolling now.

You wrote "Could she block them? Possibly, sure. " That is speculation. Isn't it? Oh boy... I'm wasting my time here.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not true, anyway.

So rushing and trying to block as you say is a 100% sucess, while DS isn't allowed to change the direction of the OE or use them to strike Bor in the back? Ok I get it, you want Bor desperately to win...

So you admitted that Classic Thors high end feats are > OF Thors feats. That's how it is and that's why Classic Thor was more impressive. You Don't like it? Not my prob. Statements and portrayals won't change this. Common sense btw.

So it's time to stop this.
Odin shaking Galaxies and Dimensions > Odin headbutting Galacuts.
Classic Thor sending shockwaves through the cosmos, lifting the midgard serpent and making Galactus flee with his tail between his legs > anything he has done with the OF.

I explained my stance, you don't have to understand it, and judged this figth according to the actual power levels. Disagree as much as you want, we are done.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
DCnU? Like the whole DCnU? Be clearer...

OE. I won't do your work... You are trolling now.

You wrote "Could she block them? Possibly, sure. " That is speculation. Isn't it? Oh boy... I'm wasting my time here.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not true, anyway.

So rushing and trying to block as you say is a 100% sucess, while DS isn't allowed to change the direction of the OE or use them to strike Bor in the back? Ok I get it, you want Bor desperately to win...

So you admitted that Classic Thors high end feats are > OF Thors feats. That's how it is and that's why Classic Thor was more impressive. You Don't like it? Not my prob. Statements and portrayals won't change this. Common sense btw.

So it's time to stop this.
Odin shaking Galaxies and Dimensions > Odin headbutting Galacuts.
Classic Thor sending shockwaves through the cosmos, lifting the midgard serpent and making Galactus flee with his tail between his legs > anything he has done with the OF.

I explained my stance, you don't have to understand it, and judge this figth according to the actual power levels. Disagree as much as you want, we are done.

I'm as clear as humanly possible here in this thread.

Lol, how am I trolling here? Be concise.

Speculation that's actually reasonable based on on-panel evidence from each character thus far. If you want to assume the bracers are on a level they've not shown to be at just yet, be my guest. Assume away.

I'm not the one desperately wanting Bor to win at all. I merely asked based on what does Darkseid "stomp" to which you replied with some out of context reasoning and deductions which, in your mind, somehow equal OF Thor being a mere high herald and not clearly beyond Thor w/o the OF. And as an extension, Bor is a mere high herald as well. You're quite literally ignoring every shred of evidence to the contrary while screaming "CLASSIC THOR!!!" which is ironic, considering the breadth of knowledge on Thor in general I have. Feel free to say I'm wrong, but really, being honest, I do have a strong grasp on what comics are blatantly telling and showing us.

Lol, don't be dense. Superman, without amps, sang Darkseid out of existence. He's not more powerful than Superman in close proximity to the sun or actually sundipped. High end feats are just that; high end feats. They don't make explicitly weaker forms of characters suddenly stronger than explicitly amped versions of characters just because they didn't "impress" you.

Yes, we've established what high end feats are.

Your stance is wrong, though. Like, to the point where it's not debatable. We clearly see stuff that normal Thor can't do from OF Thor. Therefore, he's more powerful than normal Thor. Debate: ended.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm as clear as humanly possible here in this thread.

Lol, how am I trolling here? Be concise.

Speculation that's actually reasonable based on on-panel evidence from each character thus far. If you want to assume the bracers are on a level they've not shown to be at just yet, be my guest. Assume away.

I'm not the one desperately wanting Bor to win at all. I merely asked based on what does Darkseid "stomp" to which you replied with some out of context reasoning and deductions which, in your mind, somehow equal OF Thor being a mere high herald and not clearly beyond Thor w/o the OF. And as an extension, Bor is a mere high herald as well. You're quite literally ignoring every shred of evidence to the contrary while screaming "CLASSIC THOR!!!" which is ironic, considering the breadth of knowledge on Thor in general I have. Feel free to say I'm wrong, but really, being honest, I do have a strong grasp on what comics are blatantly telling and showing us.

Lol, don't be dense. Superman, without amps, sang Darkseid out of existence. He's not more powerful than Superman in close proximity to the sun or actually sundipped. High end feats are just that; high end feats. They don't make explicitly weaker forms of characters suddenly stronger than explicitly amped versions of characters just because they didn't "impress" you.

Yes, we've established what high end feats are.

Your stance is wrong, though. Like, to the point where it's not debatable. We clearly see stuff that normal Thor can't do from OF Thor. Therefore, he's more powerful than normal Thor. Debate: ended.

It ended, you are wrong 👆 good job.

Is Darkseid the same as the one before the reboot like he was technically the same pre and post-crisis, or is he a whole new character?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
It ended, you are wrong 👆 good job.

Concession accepted, I suppose.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Is Darkseid the same as the one before the reboot like he was technically the same pre and post-crisis, or is he a whole new character?

He's a different being.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Is Darkseid the same as the one before the reboot like he was technically the same pre and post-crisis, or is he a whole new character?

Probably different as he was looking for his daughter. He never had a daughter before, right?