Originally posted by ODG
Don't be silly. Fighting the most powerful Hulk ever makes Thor weaker then when he struggled with Savage Hulk. C'mon, man.
I know, right?
I mean, it's obvious that Green Scar and even "current Savage Hulk" is superior in this Post-Pak world than he was decades ago.
Hell, the fact an injured Thor was able to forcibly BFR Nul Hulk (Green Scar w/ an Asgardian hammer) with a single strike should speak VOLUMES as to current Thor's formidability. 😐
There really is no arguing with the FACT that Thor BEFORE he got the Odin Force is DIFFERENT than Thor AFTER he lost the Odin Force.
1) His lifeforce is now tied to his hammer, if it breaks, he dies. This is an indisputable fact. This alone makes "classic" (and by classic I mean before gaining the OF) Thor and current Thor different.
2) He used to be REFRESHED by lightning. Currently, it seems to be a WEAKNESS of his. He's been one shot KO'ed twice by it. Clearly this ability of his has vanished.
Who knows what other of these exotic classic powers have now vanished? If that one did, others could to. I don't think he can still control magnetism, for instance. Hell, if they "forget" about a power as fundamental to a THUNDER GOD as lightning immunity, I'm sure magnetic control is now out the window too.
Originally posted by keiththegreat
There really is no arguing with the FACT that Thor BEFORE he got the Odin Force is DIFFERENT than Thor AFTER he lost the Odin Force.1) His lifeforce is now tied to his hammer, if it breaks, he dies. This is an indisputable fact. This alone makes "classic" (and by classic I mean before gaining the OF) Thor and current Thor different.
2) He used to be REFRESHED by lightning. Currently, it seems to be a WEAKNESS of his. He's been one shot KO'ed twice by it. Clearly this ability of his has vanished.
Who knows what other of these exotic classic powers have now vanished? If that one did, others could to. I don't think he can still control magnetism, for instance. Hell, if they "forget" about a power as fundamental to a THUNDER GOD as lightning immunity, I'm sure magnetic control is now out the window too.
1.) Their power levels aren't any different than before as a whole. Current Thor has high end feats as good or in some cases better than high end feats from Classic Thor. His life force being tied to the hammer doesn't change that.
2.) Even Classic Thor has been phased by lightning before. It's no more bizarre than Thor using Mjolnir to take an enemy's own energy and then send it back to them (before he opts to channel up to x100 force). And nine times out of ten, said target gets staggered by their own attack/energies.
Speculation. Thor nowadays certainly resorts to brute force instead of finesse, but Mjolnir hasn't lost any of its absorbing capabilities (as we've seen in AvX). In any case, Thor's still overall just as powerful as he's consistently been through out the decades.
Originally posted by ODGNo, I mean, ignoring the entirety of that breakdown and every single Thor comic that's being published for the last dozen years or so, you have a strong point. Especially on that lightning hurting Thor part. Since classic Thor got hurt by lightning before too. Reread the old Thor vs Masterson Thor fight. But yea, you're actually displaying good judgment here.
Current Thor killed Durok without Mjolnir (whereas classic Thor got romped and tasked Surfer to deal with him). Current Thor outfought an amped WWH who had help (whereas classic Thor just about always matched Savage Hulk). Current Thor managed to break off chunks of Galactus' helmet (whereas classic Thor hit Galactus' helmet and got called a gnat). Current Thor when weakened defeated Mangog (whereas classic Thor was always rag dolled by him). Current Thor beats the stuffing out of the entire Wrecking Crew in two pages (whereas classic Thor took an entire issue to beat just the Wrecker). OF Thor curbstomped an upgraded Extremis Iron Man in three moves (whereas a lesser Iron Man used to last far longer than that). OF Thor simply recreated Asgard out of thin air (whereas classic Thor did nothing even close to that). And like I said, OF Thor defeated the Destroyer armor and tanked its ultimate attack outright (whereas classic Thor always got romped and literally murdered by its ultimate attack).And that doesn't even broach all the other high end feats like clipping the wings of the raw Phoenixforce, defeating Glory, staggering Chaos King, etc. So really, whatever feeble myth you're trying to foment here about classic > current Thor, is just contradicted by feats.
I'm convinced. 👆
I never said OF Thor is weaker than Classic Thor. I was just using OF Thor as my benchmark to say when I think he became weaker. But I do believe Current Thor is weaker than Classic Thor. At least in terms of how many powers he has, and strength and durability. But energy manipulation appears to be equal.
Fraction's thor is the most powerful standard thor till date. Avengers Assemble thor is the weakest standard thor till date. AVX thor is in-between, he still has the jobber aura of classic thor which makes cosmics job to him but he's no longer pulling powers out of his ass and isn't the most powerful guy around, hulk is.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankSeems the opposite to me. Recently, he's done stuff like call upon Gaea's power (twice), used three godblasts, used divine transformative energy lightning, cosmic hurricanes, localized emps, planetary radio transmission manipulation, and then he's even displayed really random esoteric abilities like speaking any language with All-Tongue, seeing and touching past tesseract dimensions, and that whole faith spark thing against Glory.
I do think Classic Thor thought more outside of the box than Current Thor does, who's basically handled like a brute under Fraction. But in terms of power level, I see no discernible difference.
Originally posted by ODG
Seems the opposite to me. Recently, he's done stuff like call upon Gaea's power (twice), used three godblasts, used divine transformative energy lightning, cosmic hurricanes, localized emps, planetary radio transmission manipulation, and then he's even displayed really random esoteric abilities like speaking any language with All-Tongue, seeing and touching past tesseract dimensions, and that whole faith spark thing against Glory.
mmm Good point.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17He used winds, rain and snow all in quick succession against Engel fire in one of the latest issues of Mighty Thor. Off the top of my head, he called down AoE lightning to burn the pyres after Siege and a ring of AoE lightning to blast away Glory's remnants. He used whirlwinds against the raw Phoenixforce. He used whirlwinds to save a jetliner when Nova crashed into it. Used that huge whirlwind to send boobytrapped Janet away to another dimension in Secret Invasion.
What I don't see anymore is his weather manipulation abilities. Classic Thor had some crazee precise control of tornadoes/whirlwinds.
Originally posted by keiththegreat
1) His lifeforce is now tied to his hammer, if it breaks, he dies.
I'm not sure if that spell still holds, as it was dependent on the portion of the Odin Force previously residing in Thor. At this time, Odin was deceased. When Odin returned, however, I believe his full power was restored. In other words, the Odin Force no longer resides within Thor's hammer. My thinking is that the OF was clearly essential for the spell to work in the first place. Without it, I doubt Thor's lifeforce is still tied to Mjolnir.
Originally posted by Doon
I'm not sure if that spell still holds, as it was dependent on the portion of the Odin Force previously residing in Thor. At this time, Odin was deceased. When Odin returned, however, I believe his full power was restored. In other words, the Odin Force no longer resides within Thor's hammer. My thinking is that the OF was clearly essential for the spell to work in the first place. Without it, I doubt Thor's lifeforce is still tied to Mjolnir.