General Grevious vs Savage Opress

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Uhm, he lost an arm. The cause? A lightsaber. He failed to block it.

And the reason he failed to block it was because Obi-Wan just kicked his knee in. Something Obi-Wan had been working on the whole fight.

Originally posted by Arhael
I don't get why people still speculate that Opress lacks saber skills and wins only because of strength. His defense skills are quite good, he never failed to block a lightsaber attack. Even, when Kenobi used unexpected Jarkaj Ataru that was overwhelming and driving back even Maul, Opress still blocked and dodged all attacks apart from kicks.

Yeah I don't get it either. Opress has shown he has more than just strength in a fight.

And it's not like Obi-Wan stomped on him in Sabers the way he stomped Grievous in ROTS.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Clearly not because Grievous was still alive.

Because she CHOSE not to finish him off, and because Grievous screamed to his droids for help!

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
What she did really isn't all that different from what Kit Fisto did. And I hardly consider that a sound defeat.

Except Kit Fisto never actually finished defeating Grievous, whilst Ventress did.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Okay maybe I should use an example since this seems to be over your head.
Trevor Berbick beat Muhammad Ali back in '89 at the "Drama in the Bahamas."
Ali beat George Foreman.
That does not magically mean that Berbick can automatically pwn George Foreman. If you can't apply that logic to boxing, you can't apply that silly logic to lightsaber battles

What is this s***? Ali would have pounded on Berbick at the time he beat/embarrased Foreman.

Opress's fight with Ventress was JUST 3 EPISODES after Ventress pounded on Grievous. That alone proves Grievous isn't stomping him in Sabers. When you add Force TK it's just another ball game. GG's finished then.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I hardly consider that fight to be a good representation of Ventress. The brothers had fear, and intimidation on their side.

Again don't know what your on about. You seem to use every excuse in the book to downplay Opress's feats.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Opress is not a force God bro. He floors some people when he is angry. That's about it.

He's clearly above Obi-Wan and Ventress in that department based on feats and on him force chucking Obi-Wan and Anakin all over the place.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Because she CHOSE not to finish him off, and because Grievous screamed to his droids for help!

Except Kit Fisto never actually finished defeating Grievous, whilst Ventress did.

What is this s***? Ali would have pounded on Berbick at the time he beat/embarrased Foreman.

Opress's fight with Ventress was JUST 3 EPISODES after Ventress pounded on Grievous. That alone proves Grievous isn't stomping him in Sabers. When you add Force TK it's just another ball game. GG's finished then.

Again don't know what your on about. You seem to use every excuse in the book to downplay Opress's feats.

He's clearly above Obi-Wan and Ventress in that department based on feats and on him force chucking Obi-Wan and Anakin all over the place.

No that's not good proof at all. Ventress also choked Kenobi and Skywalker, Opress also choked Dooku, you mean to tell me that that means he is on Dooku's level force wise?

Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
Well, Savage is not as powerful as Maul is, and besides, Grievous has killed many Jedi, all of which were force-sensitive (obviously). I still think too many people underestimate Grievous because the show portrays him in a weak light. If you read the novels, Grievous has been a serious match for even the toughest of Jedi. In LoE, even Windu was hard-pressed against Grievous!

Hold up bub,Mace stalemated that duel because Grievous was learning Vaapad,.
source (Labyrinth of Evil)pp318-320. He was close but his results weren't Vaapad.

In their second short lived contest Mace used Force Crush to crush his lungs.
The wheezing,the coughing in ROTS was due to Mace.

Good point,he killed many Jedi that's why I think Maul vs Grievous would make a good fight in CW.
I think the show portrays him weak,too. I wouldn't under estimate Savage there is more to these brothers than the CW is willing to show us.
Let's see if Savage can survive the training Maul endured when he was trained by Sidious.

Double blade gives Opress better chance to win. Like with Jarkai he would need to do less movements to block all attacks.

Damn this is great debating you guys are awesome !!!! thanks for the thread
Another Great One!!!!! Darth Power calm down man you got really heated if you had TK
you would Probably Force Pushed or Waved the fur off a Bantha !!!!!!

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

Originally posted by Arhael
Double blade gives Opress better chance to win. Like with Jarkai he would need to do less movements to block all attacks.

He needs to be elusive, and protect his center line.
His double saber is definitely a factor in his training
I can hear Maul telling him there is no pain where strength lies

Maul will train him first in Juyo then Teras Kasi. Then strengthen his Force Abilities
Savage will be back but not as the Savage who lost to Kenobi

Something far worst than he was before.

Originally posted by juyomaster34

Savage will be back but not as the Savage who lost to Kenobi

Something far worst than he was before.

Kenobi showed that he could land kicks to either of them but Maul's legs and lower torso are invulnerable to kicks, so it was wiser choice to go for Opress.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And the reason he failed to block it was because Obi-Wan just kicked his knee in. Something Obi-Wan had been working on the whole fight.

Not only that. Look, in a whole fight, he gets a lot of kicks from Kenobi. We can see him on the ground on his kneels (in this sequence, when Maul choked Kenobi)... Kenobi in this fight, and Maul in prevous, clearly proved, that they are on very different league, then Savage.
It looks like, in terms of sabers, Savage is more like on par with Grievous, than with Maul or Kenobi.

And it's not like Obi-Wan stomped on him in Sabers the way he stomped Grievous in ROTS.

Yes, he stomped. It was 2v1, and Savage do a lot of mistakes, and finally lost his arm.

And the when Force TK comes into it Opress again is clearly superior to Ventress and Grievous really won't stand a chance against either of them.

Superior to Ventress? He's unable to succesfully use TK against his opponents. He can use it, only when he is angry, and his opponent is offguard. He has some potencial, probably higher then people like Obi-Wan, it doesn't gives him any advantage over them.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Clearly not because Grievous was still alive.

Anakin and Obi-Wan also were alive after fight with Dooku. It means, that he wont defeat them?

Originally posted by Zett
It looks like, in terms of sabers, Savage is more like on par with Grievous, than with Maul or Kenobi.

I'd put him on par with Ventress in Sabers (who is above Grievous). He's actually battered her when she was only using a single saber, but I do believe her second saber would make a difference.

Originally posted by Zett
Yes, he stomped. It was 2v1, and Savage do a lot of mistakes, and finally lost his arm.

Obi-Wan was clearly Opress's superior, but it wasn't the kind of stomp he gave Grievous in ROTS.

Originally posted by Zett
Superior to Ventress? He's unable to succesfully use TK against his opponents.

Hey? He almost always does. Most recently he smacked back and disarmed Adi Gallia with it.

Originally posted by Zett
He can use it, only when he is angry, and his opponent is offguard. He has some potencial, probably higher then people like Obi-Wan, it doesn't gives him any advantage over them.

It's not just potential. He's actually displayed the raw power. And I know he was especially enraged when he force choked Dooku and Ventress, but it doesn't take much for him just to get a bit angry.

So yeah he might need to be somewhat angry, but when he is his Force Tk is definitely above Kenobi or Ventress in raw power.

N.b. Ventress was actually angry when she beat down Grievous. But we can't dismiss her feat on that basis.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Prove that she chose not to finish him. In the duel, Grievous kicks her down, and she cuts one arm off. That's pretty even for Grievous.

Funny thing is Ares had told me to calm down another time when I attacked this claim of yours. He was saying Mizukage Yoda is clearly being sarcastic. Lol.

No your bigging Grievous up way too much and giving him way more credit than he deserves. He's no match for Ventress. Or Kit Fisto for that matter.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Fisto's performance was just as good as Ventress' except he did it with one saber.

He chopped off an arm with just one Saber. Yet did not have him grounded, with all weapons deignited and/or defeated at that point like Ventress did.

In fact Grievous wasn't attacking him with all 4 Sabers when he did that.

And after that Fisto fought him with 2 Sabers plus used Force Tk on him, and still hadn't defeated him after a decently long fight. (Though he clearly would have).

Ventress soundly defeating him (which everyone can see but you) just in Sabers was more impressive to me.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I don't find him impressive at all. You on the other hand wank him to no end as evidenced by your TFU Vader vs. Savage Opress thread. The fact that you think Savage is even on Vader's level is a testament to your wankage of him.

Oh geez. First of all I made that thread after the end of season 4, when it looked like neither Obi-Wan nor Ventress could match Opress at all.

Second of all I never once said or implied they were equals.

In fact after Lucien said this:

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He's powerful, but unrefined and brutish. I think by TFU, Vader's gained enough finesse and a tactical mind to beat Oppress.

This was my response:

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Good answer. Will have to see next season if Maul can make a more skilled warrior out of him.

That thread is no longer relevant at all with what we know now, so I have no idea why darksadow bumped it.

It's like in the days people were treating Grievous as some Saber God. People like you used to say he would Stomp Vader in sabers. It would be pretty pointless me bumping one of those threads now and saying: Bull crap!

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I'd put him on par with Ventress in Sabers (who is above Grievous). He's actually battered her when she was only using a single saber, but I do believe her second saber would make a difference.

I see that different. For me, he is definitly on par with Grievous. Savage has some advantage over Ventress at the begining. But after she adapted herself to fight him with one sword, this fight become pretty equal. Despite this, I believe, that she has big disadvantage, fighting with one sword. She was probably forced to use Makashi (which isn't the best technique against Opress).

Ventress is more skilled and doesn't do a lot of mistakes. Savage on the other hand does a lot of simple mistakes. He may be a nice teampartner, especially, when opponent concentrate himself on his partner. But in one vs one fight, he sucks.

In fact, he destroy Adi. But she also wasn't the best fighter (she wasn't that bad, but people from Kit Fisto's league were a way better), she lost to Grievous (ep4, s3). I'm not sure if she lost duel, but she definitly lost a battle. And even in a duel, Grievous looks like the one, who has an advantage.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Obi-Wan was clearly Opress's superior, but it wasn't the kind of stomp he gave Grievous in ROTS.

For me, it was even more. Obi-Wan stomped Grievous in one vs one. He also stomped Savage, in one vs two... At the begining of this last sequence, when he lost an arm, we can see him on his kneels (the same moment, when Maul throws Kenobi on the wall).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It's not just potential. He's actually displayed the raw power. And I know he was especially enraged when he force choked Dooku and Ventress, but it doesn't take much for him just to get a bit angry.
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He was able to choke Dooku, probably because Dooku doesn't treat him as a threat anymore, after his: I can't, he's too powerful. And then he surprised him.

Opress seems to me to be quite good with Saber. He blocks all saber attacks, yet, he misses a lot of unarmed attacks as if his whole focus is on opponents saber alone. He disarmed Ventress, yet, missed plenty of punches. He attacked Maul and Maul was on the defensive, yet, couldn't counter wrist lock. He blocked all Kenobi's lightsaber attacks, yet, kept receiving kicks.

By the way I was really surprised how Maul handled him. It looked like Maul used very subtle Makashi moves blending with Opress' attacks and deflecting it sideways instead of taking full on. He is clearly exceptional combatant and knows how to discover weaknesses of opponents.

Originally posted by Zett

He was able to choke Dooku, probably because Dooku doesn't treat him as a threat anymore, after his: I can't, he's too powerful. And then he surprised him.

I know he surprised Dooku. I'm not actually comparing him to Dooku. But I'm saying he has shown more raw power in the force than Obi-Wan or Ventress.

I mean I doubt either of them would Choke Count Dooku even if they are enraged and catch him by surprise.

Opress also showed a lot of power when he put Obi-Wan, Anakin and mutiple Destroyer Droids down with the Force. And there was the chucking of their craft of the cliff, at which point he wasn't even enraged.

On paper I would say Grevious would be the better warrior, but judging how TCW is portaying Savage, I'd have to go with savage on this one.
Plenty of evidence to back it up if need be.

Grievous lost to a group of gungans, where as Savage pulsed away 3 destroyers, a battalion of super and b-1 battle droids and Anakin and Kenobi all at once. Grievous was owned by Ventress, and Savage tossed Asajj around in the cargo hold. Grievous and Savage both own Gallia, but Savage is more brutal. Dooku disarmed Grievous in training just like that, where as Savage knocked him onto the floor for a little bit. Savage can crush Grievous's insides just like Mace did. Savage can use Dathomirian rage on Grievous and pulse him away too. Grievous is better in saber combat, but Savage's strength and inner willpower, as well as his rage combined with the force would help Savage win.

I am so sick of how the new series is treating Grievous...He went from being a butcherer of Jedi to a joke who can't handle Gungans! He was praised after his death as a GOD among his people! He was the most powerful of his race! And now he is a joke...STOP CW! PLEASE STOP!

Originally posted by Darth _Sadow1
I am so sick of how the new series is treating Grievous...He went from being a butcherer of Jedi to a joke who can't handle Gungans! He was praised after his death as a GOD among his people! He was the most powerful of his race! And now he is a joke...STOP CW! PLEASE STOP!

Agreed. Everything we've seen up until recently of grievous put him at a level that only the greats like yoda, Anakin, kenobi, windu, dooku, and Sidious would be able to put him down. They are now making him seem retarded. Anyways I still think the general would win this fight.

Denial is a wonderful thing. Keep it up.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Denial is a wonderful thing. Keep it up.