Originally posted by -Pr-
Which was out of context, and a complete sucker punch. Or kick, rather.
Establishes that Superman is naive enough to think he can wade into the middle of a fight without retaliation, has reflexes too slow to defend himself once that occurs, and lacks the durability to keep his lip from getting cut by said blow.
For here's what immediately precedes that:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Were his hands cut?
Don't think so. Why would they be?
Diana was targeting his chin, and not with a weapon but only her boot.
Why do you think DCnU should get cut from that?
😕
Here, take a look at the striking scene again:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14076765
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Don't think so. Why would they be?
Diana was targeting his chin, and not with a weapon but only her boot.
Why do you think DCnU should get cut from that?
😕Here, take a look at the striking scene again:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14076765
😕
You're confused as to why I would think Superman, after grabbing hold of a magical sword, in his hand, and then being kicked violently in the face (thus likely ripping his hand off the sword).....would have a cut hand?
Here, take a look at the scene preceding that again:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14076782
You're saying after that, that his hand was unaffected?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Establishes that Superman is naive enough to think he can wade into the middle of a fight without retaliation, has reflexes too slow to defend himself once that occurs, and lacks the durability to keep his lip from getting cut by said blow.For here's what immediately precedes that:
He didn't thnk Diana would hit him. She's his friend. It's a logical, reasonable assumption.
He wasn't looking for a fight, so she caught him off guard. It doesn't speak to his reflexes in the slightest, especially seeing as the new 52 has gone to great lengths to show how ridiculously fast he is.
Diana was fighting Hal, and wasn't blitzing him, yet we're supposed to believe she was blitzing Superman?
I don't think so. 😬
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
😕You're confused as to why I would think Superman, after grabbing hold of a magical sword, in his hand, and then being kicked violently in the face (thus likely ripping his hand off the sword).....would have a cut hand?
Here, take a look at the scene preceding that again:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14076782You're saying after that, that his hand was unaffected?
What makes you think the sword is magical?
More precisely, what makes you think the sword is magically SHARP?
(By the way, if you want to try to make the case of her having a magically sharp sword in "For Tomorrow", keep in mind that
1. DCnU is a different reality
and
2. The Sword in "For Tomorrow" was NOT Diana's own. She obtained it from a MidEastern witch who closely mirrored the background of the Biblical Delilah, betrayer of the Israeli superstrongman Sampson.)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
What makes you think the sword is magical?More precisely, what makes you think the sword is magically SHARP?
(By the way, if you want to try to make the case of her having a magically sharp sword in "For Tomorrow", keep in mind that
1. DCnU is a different reality
and
2. The Sword in "For Tomorrow" was NOT Diana's own. She obtained it from a MidEastern witch who closely mirrored the background of the Biblical Delilah, betrayer of the Israeli superstrongman Sampson.)
Hehe, you DO like to take the patronizing tone, don't you?
So its a normal sword, which Diana brings into battle, and somehow, when she fights with it, her own strength doesn't snap it.
Oh wait, maybe it IS magical, in that its super strong and durable, so that when she hacks at something, it doesn't break.
But if its magically strong and durable...how does one sharpen it?
Maybe with a magical whetstone. Or its always sharp, because nothing blunts it. But nonetheless, it would still have to have been forged magically.
Plus, there's the fact that Hephaestus is happy enough to give her weapons. Seeing as he's a god, this makes me believe weapons forged by him are magical in nature.
Originally posted by -Pr-
He didn't thnk Diana would hit him. She's his friend. It's a logical, reasonable assumption.
Not under these Justice League writers it's not...
Originally posted by -Pr-
He wasn't looking for a fight, so she caught him off guard. It doesn't speak to his reflexes in the slightest, especially seeing as the new 52 has gone to great lengths to show how ridiculously fast he is.
Reflexes are precisely what protect you when you ARE caught off guard.
Reflex is UNconscious, largely involuntary movement.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Diana was fighting Hal, and wasn't blitzing him, yet we're supposed to believe she was blitzing Superman?I don't think so. 😬
I don't think so either; that's precisely WHY I said Superman doesn't have particularly good reflexes.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Not under [b]these Justice League writers it's not...Reflexes are precisely what protect you when you ARE caught off guard.
Reflex is UNconscious, largely involuntary movement.I don't think so either; that's precisely WHY I said Superman doesn't have particularly good reflexes. [/B]
Why under that writer wouldn't it be? They'd been friends for years?
There's still a state of readiness involved. Reflexes work better when your attention is on something. And she's close enough to his that she wasn't moving in slow motion. It doesn't make her faster.
Except that he does; they've already been shown in the comics as being excellent. Even in JL.
Wait a sec, blue.
So when Pr asked:
Diana was fighting Hal, and wasn't blitzing him, yet we're supposed to believe she was blitzing Superman? I don't think so.
And you said:
I don't think so either; that's precisely WHY I said Superman doesn't have particularly good reflexes.
The implication is that Hal was able to deal with WW speed when she's not blitzing, but Superman is unable to deal with WW's speed.
So Hal has better reflexes than Superman?
Somewhere, Abhi is frothing at the mouth. He doesn't know why yet.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait a sec, blue.So when Pr asked:
And you said:
The implication is that Hal was able to deal with WW speed when she's not blitzing, but Superman is unable to deal with WW's speed.
So Hal has better reflexes than Superman?
Somewhere, Abhi is frothing at the mouth. He doesn't know why yet.
Not going to lie; that line made me laugh.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hehe, you DO like to take the patronizing tone, don't you?So its a normal sword, which Diana brings into battle, and somehow, when she fights with it, her own strength doesn't snap it.
Oh wait, maybe it IS magical, in that its super strong and durable, so that when she hacks at something, it doesn't break.
But if its magically strong and durable...how does one sharpen it?
Maybe with a magical whetstone. Or its always sharp, because nothing blunts it. But nonetheless, it would still have to have been forged magically.
This is where you originally stopped; I started to respond that what you posit is perfectly rational and if you'd never heard of Haphaestus, who has done precisely what you're suggesting in parts of Diana's present series.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
This is where you originally stopped; I started to respond that what you posit is perfectly rational and if you'd never heard of Haphaestus, who has done precisely what you're suggesting in parts of Diana's present series.
I know.
So based on all this, its rational to assume that her sword is magical, like Aquaman's trident is magical etc.
So, back to the question - was Superman's hand cut? Because if not, that's a pretty good durability showing right there. You try holding onto a blade, and then getting kicked in the chin sufficiently hard enough to fly a good distance away. If its a sharp sword (and I have no reason to believe Diana carries blunt swords into battle) then I reckon your hand would be quite badly slashed.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Why under that writer wouldn't it be? They'd been friends for years?
You're talking about a woman who eats ice cream on the end of a sword, rates her days according to the quality of the battles they offer, murders centaurs with her bare hands after "peacefully" settling abroad, and who literally smashes her way through the walls of buildings when she's feeling "cooped up".
If you want it that way, why, after nearly 5 years, are teammates like Lantern and Diana still at each other's throats?
What happened to friendship there?
More than that, Diana's from a fighting culture.
Her sister Amazons celebrate her return with a sparring match, for cryin' out loud. Fighting is their primary means of expression.
(You should SEE how violent things get when a little bit of actual stress is introduced later on...)
Originally posted by -Pr-
[Superman's reflexes have] already been shown in the comics as being excellent. Even in Justice League.
I would genuinely appreciate you showing a few of these instances, then. For I'll wager that what you're calling reflexes really aren't.
I would bet, for instance, that you would say Superman's tagging of the Flash was an instance of good reflexes for instance.
When in fact Superman's eyes were trained on the Flash and he was actively trying to track and grab or fool Flash into flicking range.
Quite a bit different from Superman suddenly finding a fist coming toward his face and thinking he should move out of the way and successfully doing so ... (from someone possessing metahuman speed, that is. Ma Kent's broom hand doesn't count.)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You're talking about a woman who eats ice cream on the end of a sword, rates her days according to the quality of the battles they offer, murders centaurs with her bare hands after "peacefully" settling abroad, and who literally smashes her way through the walls of buildings when she's feeling "cooped up".If you want it that way, why, after nearly 5 years, are teammates like Lantern and Diana still at each other's throats?
What happened to friendship there?
More than that, Diana's from a fighting culture.
Her sister Amazons celebrate her return with a sparring match, for cryin' out loud. Fighting is their primary means of expression.
(You should SEE how violent things get when a little bit of actual stress is introduced later on...)I would genuinely appreciate you showing a few of these instances, then. For I'll wager that what you're calling reflexes really aren't.
I would bet, for instance, that you would say Superman's tagging of the Flash was an instance of good reflexes for instance.
When in fact Superman's eyes were trained on the Flash and he was actively trying to track and grab or fool Flash into flicking range.
Quite a bit different from Superman suddenly finding a fist coming toward his face and thinking he should move out of the way and successfully doing so ... (from someone possessing metahuman speed, that is. Ma Kent's broom hand doesn't count.)
Clark and Diana are much closer than Hal and Diana. That, and they'd had a mutual attraction for years. When you're making googly eyes across a room at one another, you don't expect the woman to kick you in the face.
Actually I would count his encounter with Flash. And his reading every medical text. And the few other instances of super-reactions he's shown.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
FLash was cocky enough to get surprised, and has reflexes too slow to defend himself once that occurs.
Exactly! Too slow to defend himself midstride when Superman's about to flick his head from 4 inches away, at least.
As for the sword, we're not specifically told where it's from and what it is normally used for or how much use it actually gets. After 5 years I imagine it could get dull, and not until year 5, where the Wonder Woman title apparently starts, does Diana have all that much extremely regular contact with the gods. She doesn't send it to Heph for monthly maintenance or anything.
That also misses the fact it's an impactful kick. How much of a grip do YOU maintain on something when someone punches you in the jaw?
Even that, of course, overlooks the fact we're not shown the transition to that position. Let's argue those supposedly great reflexes of Superman's. He has his grip on a sword. Suddenly he sees a boot moving fast toward his face. Does he keep his grip? Or let go of his grip and instinctively start to block?
At the end of the day, though, I'm fine if you want to say Diana's kick does more damage than pulling away from a sword, magic or otherwise.
You can even tell me the unseen transition was her grabbing Clark by the wrist and forcing his hand off the sword hilt and THEN kicking him in the face, if you want.
I'll give you no argument about Diana there.
She's a very strong lady, after all ...
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Exactly! Too slow to defend himself midstride when Superman's about to flick his head from 4 inches away, at least.
So Flash is unable to reach to Superman. So Superman is faster than Flash?
But Wonder Woman surprised Superman. So WW is faster than Superman.
But Hal was able to react to WW. So Hal is at least equal to WW.
But Batman managed to steal Hal's ring.
So Batman is the fastest hero on the JL roster.
As for the sword, we're not specifically told where it's from and what it is normally used for or how much use it actually gets. After 5 years I imagine it could get dull, and not until year 5, where the Wonder Woman title apparently starts, does Diana have all that much extremely regular contact with the gods. She doesn't send it to Heph for monthly maintenance or anything.
Prove it.
That also misses the fact it's an impactful kick. How much of a grip do YOU maintain on something when someone punches you in the jaw?
Depends on my reactions. If I'm fast enough, I'll open my hand so that I don't get cut.
Even that, of course, overlooks the fact we're not shown the transition to that position. Let's argue those supposedly great reflexes of Superman's. He has his grip on a sword. Suddenly he sees a boot moving fast toward his face. Does he keep his grip? Or let go of his grip and instinctively start to block?
So he manages to react to a sucker punch. Which is better than what you were arguing a page or so before, so progress, I think.
At the end of the day, though, I'm fine if you want to say Diana's kick does more damage than pulling away from a sword, magic or otherwise.
You can even tell me the unseen transition was her grabbing Clark by the wrist and forcing his hand off the sword hilt and THEN kicking him in the face, if you want.
I'll give you no argument about Diana there.
She's a very strong lady, after all ...
Stronger than benching the Earth? Lol.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85LMAO.So Flash is unable to reach to Superman. So Superman is faster than Flash?
But Wonder Woman surprised Superman. So WW is faster than Superman.
But Hal was able to react to WW. So Hal is at least equal to WW.
But Batman managed to steal Hal's ring.
So Batman is the fastest hero on the JL roster.